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Inside Line "trashes" M5

35K views 246 replies 35 participants last post by  Needsdecaf 
#1 ·
basic premise is it's awesome and speedy but boring and isolated.. have we heard that before?

i have never for an M car

"But it basically comes down to this: Somehow the white coats in Munich made the 2013 BMW M5 more powerful and quicker and they've given it more grip, but they forgot something - the emotion. Where's the excitement? Where's the visceral thrill? Where's the M5's sinister evil twin?

Oh, that's right, it's down the street at the Cadillac dealer. It's called the CTS-V."

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/2013/2013-bmw-m5-full-test-and-video.html
 
#86 · (Edited)
I am a visual person who considers usability the most important characteristic of a car. So the interior look and feel matters most to me. The exterior matters second most. As long as the vehicle receives good reviews, then I am generally fine with its performance characteristics even if there are other cars that outperform it.

I currently drive an E60 535xi. I'm looking to upgrade, so I've started to shop. The new GS 350 is receiving favorable reviews and the interior looks nice, so I test drove one. I found their mouse-like controller to be frustrating and difficult to use. There were many other usability issues, such as the push button temperature controls (as opposed to the much more usable knobs that BMW gives you), but the controller issue alone was enough to disqualify it as a car I would consider purchasing. It doesn't matter to me whether its performance is now best-in-class (with a 535) or not because its usability was a problem (and note that I found its performance to be worse than that of my current E60).

Right now there is only one other car I feel has an interior I find pleasing enough to sit in day-to-day, and that's the F10. I have a friend who owns an F10 535, so I drove his. And I've test driven the 550. BMW didn't change much in terms of usability, so of course it remains fantastic in that area. And the look of the interior is improved in almost every way over the E60.

I have complaints though. I love the cruise control lever in the E60. And along with the audio controls being on the left side of the steering wheel (in the E60), I can pretty much drive the car, manage volume, and answer the phone with my left hand, and then I can keep my right arm relaxed on the center console with my right hand by the iDrive controller. This was perfect. I don't get this with the F10 because the cruise control buttons are on the left side of the steering wheel and the audio controls moved to the right side. It is less usable for me to have to re-adjust the position of my hand on the steering wheel just to fiddle with the cruise control settings (I have active cruise control, so besides the usual setting the speed, I also fiddled with the distance). And to have to move my right hand from rest to the steering wheel to adjust volume; this was a *major* disappointment.

I have not test driven the M5. But to say that I would be purchasing a "better" car by purchasing an M5 over a 550 would be a bit ambitious. It *might* be a better car; it's very subjective and depends on yours needs and wants. With the 550, I can get xDrive (I drive snow in the winter). And my E60 has the active cruise control, which I *love*. Can't get that on the M5. Additionally, I really like the wood grain trim down by the shifter that the 550 has. But the 550 doesn't have the power or performance configurability the M5 offers. And I can't get the 4-zone climate on the 550 anymore (a mild bummer).

In life, there are always trade offs and rarely does one have the opportunity to purchase something that fits 100% of their wants and needs. Sometimes people *choose* not to fulfill all of their wants and needs. I have a "wealthy" (e.g. more than $15 million in liquid assets) friend. He drives a Honda Accord. Certainly he could purchase any car in the world. But he chooses not to.

Some people may choose the M5 over the Panamera simply because they don't want to pay so much more for the Panamera even if it did perform better. Right now I am deciding between a 550 and M5. I am leaning towards a 550. It is partly a cost issue. I can afford the M5, but I feel annoyed to pay ~$20K more (spec'd how I'd like) for a vehicle that has fewer features I want but better performance. Good thing I won't be deciding until spring ;-)

I will admit, it is really fun to read reviews and comparisons that put the car I've chosen on top of the pile. And it is a bit of a bummer when they don't. Obviously, I wish the M5 would crush the competition in the comparisons. Maybe, for some odd reason, this would stroke my ego or help me feel even more justified in buying an F10 than I already feel. But ultimately, their opinion only influences my purchasing decision to the extent they review a car favorably or unfavorably. The M5 is receiving generally favorable reviews. So even if it were finishing last in every comparison, at the end of the day, it wouldn't be a factor in my decision. If it were receiving unfavorable reviews, then yes, I would think twice about an F10 and, if that were the case, I likely wouldn't even consider upgrading from my E60, which I *love*.

-Corey
 
#91 ·
Doesn't it really come down to what you are looking for?
It has space and speed; luxury too. A pretty safe car.
It was not intended to be a Porsche turbo or a GT3RS.

It is what it is ... right Beth?
 
#96 · (Edited)
Exactly right.

They take a smaller car, compare it with a bigger and more luxurious car, and then complain the latter isn't as light and sporty.

People who buy the M5 don't buy it because it the best track car. They buy it because if you have to pick one car that can do it all, this is as good as it gets.
 
#93 ·
I always thought the CTS-V was built to unseat the M5, not the M3. The 2014 CTS-V redsign will most likely grow in dimensions like the F10 did over the E60, but the upcoming ATS-V will be the M3 competitor. The F30 guys are already complaining about the ATS comparisons to their cars.

BTW, prior to your more recent M3 comparison, C&D compared the CTS-V to the E63 and XFR: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2009-cadillac-cts-v-vs-2010-jaguar-xfr-2010-mercedes-benz-e63-amg-comparison-test

Just look at the Panamera; cost-wise it competes with larger cars, size-wise it competes with cheaper cars. The Caddy is just the opposite; cost-wise it competes with smaller cars, size-wise it competes with more expensive cars.

BTW. I thought we were talking about sedans: 2013 CTS-V Sedan Comparison
 
#97 · (Edited)
I always thought the CTS-V was built to unseat the M5, not the M3.
Nope, the M3 is/was where the money was. The decision to make it size wise in the middle gave them the option for the coupe/sedan versions, but the M3 had this.

Technologically, it was always easier to build a better M5 (E60), but the market wasn't there, at least from the perspective of American car makers.

And sorry for the coupe/sedan links, just started grabbing old comparisons.

Go back on these boards a couple of years, when anyone brought up the CTS-V it was pretty much belittled and discounted, that's what Cadillac (knew they) had to overcome. I don't think they have yet, but there's no denying that the car will perform. Fit and finish still has a long way to go, comfort as a daily driver isn't there at all. But if you're in to tuning, for the price of a well decked out 550 you can have an 800hp CTS-V, and for a bit more you can have this.
 
#94 ·
Dunderhi

You have no idea how hard it is to type your screen name on an iPhone. I will call you D going forward.

The first sample here compares CTSV coupe to M3 Coupe and says they are even.

http://www.insideline.com/cadillac/...adillac-cts-v-coupe-vs-2011-bmw-m3-coupe.html

Here is another one which compares CTS-V sedan to M3, ISF, and C63 AMG. Again they seem to think it is a close comparison.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...llac-cts-v-vs-lexus-is-f-vs-mercedes-c63-amg/

So it is regarded as being a close heat versus the smaller M3, but when compared to the M5 they complain the M5 is bigger and heavier. I see a logical problem in the way these mags are approaching this. Reality is they just want to create headlines by saying American muscle beats latest thing from Germany.

You are right that the next CTS will be a 5 competition. But the current one was designed to compete with both 3 and 5 and is slightly bigger than former but smaller than the latter.
 
#95 · (Edited)
D - BTW I don't know how seriously you take this but this exercise is exactly the problem with rag reviews.

Any perspective you substantiate from a third party review, I can find another to refute it.

Why don't you just go and drive one and share your own opinion?

That's what I did a year ago for a whole day in Spain, and then over the following months I drove the competition and at the end of that I knew what I wanted.
 
#98 · (Edited)
D - BTW I don't know how seriously you take this but this exercise is exactly the problem with rag reviews.

Any perspective you substantiate from a third party review, I can find another to refute it.

Why don't you just go and drive one and share your own opinion?

That's what I did a year ago for a whole day in Spain, and then over the following months I drove the competition and at the end of that I knew what I wanted.
As I have already stated in this thread, comparos only provide background info for things to look for when test driving a car yourself, but for simple measurements such as leg room I don't see a need to take a tape measure to a dealership to confirm. I just have a low tolerance (as many know around here) for incorrect statements. When I was car shopping I did just as you did and test drove all of the cars that I was considering. The 550xi didn't win out right, but I was able to determine it's weaknesses and knew what I needed to upgrade before I even bought the car.

Anyway, when I get my car serviced I'll check to see if they have a demo M5 to drive, but since the M5 doesn't meet my minimum requirements, I doubt it make much of a difference to me. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-M5. If the M guys would have built the car with an xDrive system that could handle the 600hp, I probably would have held off my last purchase decision. After all, I was driving an SL550, so life didn't really suck at the time, I was just to need three cars for two people again.
 
#124 · (Edited)
Doesn't matter who Cadillac lists as the competitor. It is a smaller car with barely usable rear seating.

BMW should list the Bentley Continental Flying Spur as the M5s competitor to set up a favorable review too.
 
#126 · (Edited)
Well if you are talking about the Flying Spur Speed with the Mulliner interior, I know which car I would pick. :thumbup:
 
#132 ·
Yeah my insurance went up by about $200 per year for the M5 vs 550i.
 
#146 ·
I call discrimination :mad:

Still haven't answered how much will the nannies save you if you mash it at a light? better than your 550i? I must know because I must be able to do it lol
The M5 does have a lot grip because it has massive tires. 295 in the rears and Michelin PSS.

With the nanny on you are unlikely to kill yourself. Wth the nanny off, the potential for self destruction is significant. I drove in MDM with DSC off and had no problems with control. But I have done 2 days worth of track training in the past, and also MDM is not the same as everything off.

On the other hand, who cares. Better to live dangerously like James Hunt, than stay home with the nanny.
 
#148 · (Edited)
On the other hand, who cares. Better to live dangerously like James Hunt, than stay home with the nanny.
Thats what gap insurance is for :p

I frankly do not understand certain comments.....the current CTS generation was introduced at the end of 2008 and size wise is almost equal to the inch to the E60 5 Series.

The CTS-V targeted that generation M5 and it did it quite effectively....at almost M3 money....

The handling is phenomenal and the car is extremely engaging.....the magnetorheological dampers work very well.

The comparison with the F10 would not be entirely fair because the F10 is a newer car....period

You may not like the styling (I do) but at least it did introduce something radically new in that regard with the sharp angled and the pointed tail (only Acura followed that design language)
Sorry Bro, the trim is over done on the center in my op, the buttons seem and appear like cheap plastic (notice the climate control ones, they stand out the most to me) Steering wheel looks awesome, the driver door controls look like they belong in a chevy. Never been a fan of the speedometer choice in design, yet it remains relatively the same since like 06. The interior does not match the cars performance
 
#129 ·
bentley flying spur? surely you jest. anyway, why would you want to compare to that barge? arent they 6,000 pds??
 
#131 ·
That's my point.

Cadillac is picking a bigger and more expensive car and the saying its smaller car handles like a smaller car.

That comparison is as ridiculous as the M5 vs Bentley comparison.

They should compare to the M3, and when the new M3 is out it will crush the CTS-v.
 
#135 · (Edited)
"The M5 is purposely built for a fast, powerful, 'executive' sedan."
Once upon a time this might have been a niche to fill for the M5. Today BMW already fill it more than sufficiently with not one but three other cars. The 550, 650GC and the 750. Personally I want more from an M car than just being fast, powerful and executive like it's non M siblings and would like to see it move closer to the rest of the M family.
 
#136 ·
"The M5 is purposely built for a fast, powerful, 'College' sedan."
Once upon a time this might have been a niche to fill for the M5. Today BMW already fill it more than sufficiently with not one but three other cars. The 550, 650GC and the 750. Personally I want more from an M car than just being fast, powerful and executive like it's non M siblings and would like to see it move closer to the rest of the M family.
Fixed for you Sol. :thumbup:

Gotta get over the nostalgia!!! Even porsche is doing it! :yikes:
 
#137 ·
Performance wise even if the CTS V does stack up against the M5, it's purely hideous. The inside feels so damned cheap. I gave real thought to this car since I get a great GM discount but i couldn't do it. It just felt awful inside and to be honest that was my number one priority.
 
#144 · (Edited)
I find reviews valuable since these guys spend quite a bit of time and miles with the cars, far more than I can do in a test drive. I try to read as many as I can since it gives me an idea of things to pay attention to. Especially if there are areas they complain about that is part of my primary criterias in a car. Sure there is a risk that you will over emphasize issue but rather that than being disappointed a few days or weeks into ownership of things a short "unprepared" test drive fail to reveal. Where these test means squat is if you own the car already an love it. Then it's totally irrelevant what someone else thinks, likewise if you test the car and disgaree with the reviewer after having checked out the complaints. My experience is that reviewers are far more forgiving than I am and that the few complaints they have more often than not have merit.
 
#147 · (Edited)
I frankly do not understand certain comments.....the current CTS generation was introduced at the end of 2008 and size wise is almost equal to the inch to the E60 5 Series.

The CTS-V targeted that generation M5 and it did it quite effectively....at almost M3 money....

The handling is phenomenal and the car is extremely engaging.....the magnetorheological dampers work very well.

The comparison with the F10 would not be entirely fair because the F10 is a newer car....period

You may not like the styling (I do) but at least it did introduce something radically new in that regard with the sharp angled and the pointed tail (only Acura followed that design language)

Last, I frankly do not understand the critics to the interiors.....tust me I'm the first to criticize the American car industry with its past lackluster (to be generous) products and interiors wothy of tupperware plastic quality but Cadillac did a really fine job with this car.

I do not recall that the stiched leather lined dash was even an option on the E60 M5....just to name one thing....I guess that in German car terms, the rather uninviting interiors of the E60 are called "Austere" maybe?? :)

I remember when some people criticized the CTS pop-out navigation screen....I guess that when Audi does it is more acceptable ;)

....and to wrap things up, with the price difference between a V and the E60 M5 you could buy a nice, comfortable and well optioned daily commuter....now maybe for a Wall Street type bailed out at taxpayer expense this may be a moot point but for a person actually working for a living it may be an additional selling point.....:thumbup:

 
#154 · (Edited)
It's interesting that all the forum members who have driven the new M5 completely disagree with these negative reviews.

Here's another interesting review from another forum member who is an ex E39 M5 owner and current Panamera Turbo owner from Northern Europe who test drove the F10 M5.

KIP said:
Finally got my test drive last week, after the press had let the car go... Dont know if anyone cares how an ex E39 M5 owner, who has had AMG cars and now a PTT with the powerkit, thinks of the new M5, but here goes anyway.

Where do I start? The car was a gorgeous lightning blue, but sadly the tires were very worn after the press. It affected my test a little, but luckily it was dry when I drove it and only started to rain at the end of the test drive. Yes, we get a lot of rain and snow here.

Back to the car, did I allready mention it is a HOOLIGAN! There is a saying, or atleast there should be a saying, test drive the car yourself before making up your mind, magazines can give you a very wrong impression. Calling this car too refined is BS, it totally convinced me. The blue color suits it very well and is the best color with the blue brake calipers. I walked past the black showroom car earlier, without noticing its an M5 and didnt really like its red seats. But if you like to be really stelthy, black is your color. This blue car was visible from a long way in the parking lot. The center console I didnt like with the red interior, but somehow it looked much better with the black interior in this car. It is a very modern and sporty place to be. This car had comfort seats, which I found to be adequate, very comfortable, but they still offered some lateral support and I managed to get a very good driving position. I also liked the steeringwheel feeling.

Power and Performance: I have a hard time understanding people who would want more power in a family sedan, 560bhp is ENOUGH! This a very powerful car. It didnt have a noticable turbo lag. I am very surprised by this. The power came instantly, and although there is somekind of lag, it is not noticable as you get instant action when mashing the throttle. Very different than my old 997TT for example. I experienced extreme traction issues though and it was very hard to launch from a dig. On the highway its a different story. The power is almost instant and there is enough of it. Yes, there is really a lot of power in this car. I tried driving in the sportiest settings in the city stop-go traffic. Its undrivable. The same car that behaves like a 1.0l VW Polo with the comfort mode, feels like you are trying to hold a bear using dental floss. I havent experienced bunny hopping for many years now, actually not since the E39 M5, but managed it with this car. Its an insanly cool and stimulating car this. In the Panny you can easily drive it in sport plus mode and it totally obays your every move. It is a more obedient subordinate! Hence I think the M5 is a hooligan, but one that puts a smile on your face.

About the equipment. This test car had the self sealing doors. I really dont think this is an option I would pay for. The head up display is really cool. I have polarized sunglasses and the system didnt work with those, but it is a really cool feature and think all cars should have this.
I liked the lane change and depart systems. They worked without being intrusive. It also had standard audio, which I found to be adequate. I was listening to the sound with an open roof for most of the time anyway. Boy was it fun to mash the throttle in a tunnel. Actually in the tunnel with the sunroof open, it is the only time I hear my Panny. Why does it have to be so quiet inside even with sport exhaust on? Dont hate sound sympozers, love them. If they work like in the M5, I dont care what or who makes the sound. I also liked it in the A6 biturbo. Bring it on! WHo cares where it comes from.

Plusses: Sound, sound and sound. Maybe coming from an ĂĽberquiet car it made me smile. The car has insane amounts of power. The turbos are virtually lag free and the gear changes are really quick and seemless. This is a truly fantastic M-car and brings me back memories of the E39 M5. -It also looks very nice, they really succeeded in the looks. I think it actually looks as good as the 6 series, in the previous models I think the &-series was clearly a better looking car.
-The car has an insane amount of power, and to those waiting for the tuning I really dont get why anyone would ant more power on a RWD car, but of course this is a personal opinnion.
-Fuel consumption. In the PTT I managed 11.8 l/100km on the way to the shop and the same route with the M5, 8.7 l/100km!!!!!! All I can say is wow. I even got 6.7l/100km when driving 90km/h!

Minuses (relative):
-I think although the gear change lever looks nice and the reverse mode resembles a manual gearbox, I found it a little hard to use. I prefer a setup more resembling an automatic. I think they made it this way just to make people feel more like its a manual gearbox. For example throughout the test drive the car shouted at me that it is not in P when I stopped, but there is no way you can select P. I believe it is automatic and engages when you turn the engine off? The car deliverer actually stepped out of the car and it started rolling until he jumoed back in, so it isnt just me.
-The blinker thing is just not logical, I had to turn it off manually to stop blinking constantly. Didnt bother to read the manual how it should be operated, dont think one should.
-WHy does the start stop thing work in sport plus mode?? In my Panny it only works when the car is in comfort mode
-Why doesnt it have AWD as an option for those who need it?

Compared to the Panny:
-This car lets you be more unnoticed in the city. Other BMW drivers went crazy and drove past me at insane speeds with their thumbs up when they saw it, but others didnt notice it that much. This I like. The Panny gets amateur photographers everywhere and if you try to change the lane in the city, other drivers are sure to try to block the move.
-The seating feel makes the Panny feel like a sportscar, but...and I never though I would say this... I got more of a sportscar feeling from the M5. The Panny is extremly quiet and you only get the sense of speed from other passangers shouting. The M5 growls and makes bang noises when downshifting. Simple speedo coparison seemed to be similar in both cars, but boy did you feel it in the M5. The back end slides as you almost lose it and the exhaust shouts the V8 sounds. Very exciting! That said the Panny with its PDCC turns a little better in corners, without any leaning. In the sound segment the M5 wins 6-0.
-I like the Panny interior more, but somehow I think they made the car too luxurious at the expense of sportiness. I think the M5 interior would be enough for me, its very modern and I kind of liked the idrive system. Little mixed feelings on the dotted aluminum.
-The M5 seems to pull more the faster you go, there is a lot of power available and the chassis really follows your moves, but I feel there is a traction control. It was very hard to get moving from stop, there is so much slipping and sliding going on. In my opinnion in the sport plus, fastet gearchange mode, it was honestly a little scary at times. The torque kicks in instantly feg. in corners when you throttle it and sometimes makes the back behave a little unexpectedly, a little like when motorcycles get the shakes. In the Panny you never get this feeling and you fell like you could tune it forever and in a similar situation the back end just slides easily. I think this was mostly due to the worn out tires though. Still, I think there is a limit to how much power there can be in a RWD family sedan and this is close to it.
-The Pannys standard paddles on the steering wheel are not logical and dont feel right. The extra cost paddles are perfect, but you lose the multifunctionality. The M5 paddles are a perfect combination of both.

To end my writing, I really liked the car. It is very hard not to. I was hoping Id hate it, as I really cant live without AWD, unless I move back to the city. If you dont need AWD, this really is the car for you who likes REALLY FAST sedans. I think the M5 is intended at younger customers than the Panny, but I definately dont feel too old for the M5. For some reason when I drove the RS5 I felt a little embarassed by the throttle blips etc. and felt old, the RS6 was more refined, but lacked the exhaust noise, resembling the Panny actually. However, the RS6 also had a numb steering feel. The M5 is now a very good combination of everyday usability and a monster waiting to be unleashed. I really would like to buy this car, but the winters here are long and snowy and I just cant seem to get myself back to a RWD car anymore. I think if you wouldnt get home at all minimum x2 in a year you would get my point. Then the M550d will probably be too refined for my taste.

I honestly think this is the best M5 so far by a long way. And if you compare it to all of the AMG's I have driven? I still think BMW makes cars with probably the best steering feel in the world, the AMG's cant match it. You feel really connected to the road. BTW those thinking of a manual gearbox, please try the dct, its very good.
 
#157 ·
I remember seeing this post by Kip. The fact that this comes from a Panny Turbo owner speaks volumes. He makes great points. For those who do not know...Kip and a few other festers also hang out over on 6 speed online and M5 post (Stealth, myself, Leslie, ect).
 
#160 ·
I haven't read the whole thread, nor do I have any valuable input.

Coming from a former e39 M5 owner, and someone who believe the e39 M5 is the best looking BMW ever made, I think the new M5 looks incredible. Its disappointing to read a lot of the negative reviews about this car. Seems like the M5 has always had a certain badass aura around it. As soon as I heard the new one was going turbo, I knew it was going to be a mistake. Now that the M3 is following its footsteps, I fear the days of truly exciting cars from the ///M factory are behind us.
 
#161 ·
Make no mistake.
The F10 M5 is still a great car.
Every single review all agrees at one point or another that it's a great car.
All the complains are all about how it's too luxury, too isolated, not enough 'feel' etc.
But as it stand no one can argue the M5 is not great. It just doesn't suit some people's taste.
 
#166 ·
Hard to tell at this stage but I think about 1-2mpg less than what I got in the 550i.

But hard to tell because there is a difference between driving in the Alps and driving in the flat state of Florida.
 
#178 · (Edited)
I still lust for that car watching that video. It is sooooo cool. And I Do know how the video ends when it's not truncated... All those things complained about works flawlessly in for example a Lexus ES, doesn't make me want one of those.

Like with an with Alfa Romeo there are a lot of things you can forgive in a car that cool and that fun.
Complicated, maybe. Horrible, not a chance.
 
#184 · (Edited)
Yeah, but you are forgetting that highyo met "religious icon of your choice" at the M driving school after those statements :)
I think he still has and love his 550 as well so I don't think he deserves the solstice treatment as being dragged over hot coals by you and tadtaggert.

It is also possible for a human to change his or hers opinion slightly or significantly over time. It's not a criminal act and the discussions are far more interesting when it's cars being judged not the commenters.
 
#189 · (Edited)
Sure, say so then. He doesn't and you haven't :)

all of the above statements i made are true and i stand by them 100%. ...
recall our exchange between wants and needs - someone else could thrash your M3 and say it's inferior to a 2 door car eg Lotus. You have said that you need a 4 door car. Therefore, shouldn't and can't compare the M3 to the M5 or the F10 :)
 
#186 ·
Highyo has only one problem which is that he hasn't driven the M5.
 
#187 ·
I guess M5 has become daily driving car and less fun car. It is NOT a car which makes people take a drive just for the fun of it.

There is a member on other forum who has both F10 M5 and Pana GTS. The car he chooses to drive just for the fun of it is GTS. M5 is not an addicting car anymore like older M5 or any M3.

This another video review that discusses this
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=743783
 
#204 · (Edited)
Whatever you want to call it the new M5 is a bigger, heavier and more luxurious and more isolated car than the earlier iterations. Like the non M cars it's now close to the size of the old 7 series. All reviewers pickup on this, some see it as welcome progress some don't. It does not seem that they disagree on how the car drives, just if they like the change or not, as they guy says, it's good in a different way, so he likes both concepts while the insideline's guy prefers the old way.
 
#208 · (Edited)
"I always thought the E60 was too harsh for a daily driver"
This tells me that our preferences differs and that our view of the M5 probably will as well. I never thought the E60 or the M3 are even remotely too harsch as daily drivers. They are taut and communicative but not harsh IMO. And therein lies a lot of the M and BMW magic to me, in how they are able to create such communicative and taut cars that aren't harsh. To manage all three isn't easy, the Audi S4 as an example is taut and not harsh but it's not very communicative, it's too smooth and isolated which was obvious driving it back to back with even a non sport E60 xi.
 
#209 ·
"I always thought the E60 was too harsh for a daily driver"
This tells me that our preferences differs and that our view of the M5 probably will as well. I never thought the E60 or the M3 are even remotely too harsch as daily drivers. They are taut and communicative but not harsh IMO. And therein lies a lot of the M and BMW magic to me, in how they are able to create such communicative and taut cars that aren't harsh.
Honestly I prefer harshness to poor handling example I don't feel near as confident in the 335i AWD as I did pushing the x6 with TV... So I can get why if you'd have that feeling about ride quality it could be a turn off. At the same time it isn't so bad that its worth totally discounting its awesomeness (not saying you are)

ENJOY the beast and sigh every now and then if it isn't perfect. :thumbup: If you want perfection, buy a bugatti :p
 
#212 ·
Time to stop arguing about the M5, there's a another controversial M car just around the corner. :D



A CF roof and more power might make this car even more interesting. ;)
 
#213 ·
First of all I believe the M6GC will not have more power.
There is no reason for BMW to make the car any different than M5.
They pretty much serve the same purpose.

I'll say The one M car to look forward to is the "M1/M10" (which BMW just patented) ;)
 
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