Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > M Series > E46 M3 (2001-2006)

E46 M3 (2001-2006)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-24-2006, 09:41 PM
M3Paul-E M3Paul-E is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: E46M3
Shop tech wrecked my M3 on joyride!!!

Hello All, This is my first thread on bimmerfest, but I'm sorry to say it's for sad reason. See story below, I'd love to get some opinions.

Part 1:
Ok Guys, this could be a long thread as the journey just begins...sorry for being so long.

I took my '03 M3 in to a local BMW dealership for an oil change and modest warranty service a few days ago and they completed the work, called me back and said to come and pick it up. The car had been worked on, taken for a 2 mile test drive, and signed off by the first technician. I missed the call, so I called my SA around 4:00 and was told my car had just been in an accident. Obviously shocked, I went down to the dealership with a work colleague.

Once my SA greeted me with the un-calming, "are you the M3 guy?", I was met by the Shop Foreman who told me that they have a "random testing procedure" that my car had been "randomly selected for a pre-determined route" for customer satisfaction purposes.

I enquired who was driving and how old they were, but wasn't shocked when I was told a 21 year old had been driving.

After seven miles of driving, apparently a car pulled out in front of him and he couldn't avoid it, causing him to lose control and spin out, 180'ing the car into the curb at close to 50 mph (estimated by the police who measured skid marks, etc). It was in a 30 mph zone, BTW. He was about 3 miles from the dealership at that point, so we can assume a 10 mile "loop"

Now the dealership is saying they will fix the car to it's original specs, but they haven't even put it on an alignment rack to measure the sub-frame/unibody. Their parts cost, without labor, paint, or the Schnitzer nose and HID fogs comes to over $6000.

The GM came out and said he was absolutely adamant that there will be no deduction against the resale value of the car as it will be back to factory specs, but you need to know it was in mint condition, never even dinged, and had a clean carfax when I brought it in.

I told them to not perform any work until I could evaluate my options (this was on Wednesday, crash on Tuesday), but by Friday I received a letter from their attorney stating I had to let them do the work or remove the car from the lot within 5 days, unless I be charged a daily "storage fee".

I hired an attorney, but what would you guys do? I really don't want the car back with a crash on it as I wouldn't have bought it that way in the first place. Plus, I know the value will be affected, not to mention and boogymen that might come out due to hit down the road, when the car's out of warranty. It hit rear driver side rim first, completely buckled the suspension and wheel, then bounced to the front blowing the side bags and taking the front wheel/suspension out, then blew the front bumper cover off.

That's it for now, bummed out, but appreciate any thoughts.

PS Looking for Stuka who had similar experience at savage BMW.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 07-24-2006, 09:51 PM
BmW745On19's's Avatar
BmW745On19's BmW745On19's is offline
Go Gators
Location: Tampa, Florida
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,337
Send a message via AIM to BmW745On19's
Mein Auto: 745i
That sounds like a complete bull **** story if you ask me. There is NO reason why any car should be taken for a joy ride by a 21 year old. I recommend to you that you get the young man fired and make the dealership either A) buy you a new or nearly new M3 that is comparable to yours or B) have them buy the car from you how much it was worth prior to the accident and sue them for pain and suffering for the difference from a new M3.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-24-2006, 10:20 PM
jetstream23 jetstream23 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Phoenix, AZ
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,229
Mein Auto: 330i, Toyota Land Cruiser
Document everything that was said to you by their GM, Tech, and staff people. I'm interested to see if you were lied to about this supposed "random test drive". Sounds like a load of bologna to me. If they were joyriding your car for no reason after all work was finished then you could sue them. You need to expressly authorize all work before it is done.
__________________
2005 330i | ZHP, Xenons, Jet Black/Natural Brown (Black Cube)

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:49 AM
spots's Avatar
spots spots is offline
kid hater
Location: FL and CA
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 971
Mein Auto: '07 328
Sorry to hear about your car. While I understand your frustration don't be too quick to make judgment. Does the dealership have a policy printed anywhere that states that they may road test your vehicle? This was our policy when I was working at a dealership.
Most techs these days ARE in their 20's. Possibly it was a joyride, however I think you should not judge the dealership so quickly. It will probably get messy now that lawyers are involved, as they are only in it for the $$$$. I hope it all works out for you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-31-2006, 07:08 PM
xiliy xiliy is offline
Registered User
Location: studio city
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32
Mein Auto: 2004 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by spots
Sorry to hear about your car. While I understand your frustration don't be too quick to make judgment. Does the dealership have a policy printed anywhere that states that they may road test your vehicle? This was our policy when I was working at a dealership.
Most techs these days ARE in their 20's. Possibly it was a joyride, however I think you should not judge the dealership so quickly. It will probably get messy now that lawyers are involved, as they are only in it for the $$$$. I hope it all works out for you.

If it was my car wrecked by these morans, I would get the best lawyer money can buy, that way the delaership would have my name on it. If the reputation for this dealer was important, they would take care of everything without giving you a reason to get a lawyer. Since most of the dealers and managers have incurable desire to screw everyone who comes in through the door, its not likely that they would do the "right" thing. Sue them !!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-07-2006, 06:53 PM
roninnotroamin roninnotroamin is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 49
Mein Auto: MBZ CLK320; BMW 330cic
Quote:
Originally Posted by spots
Sorry to hear about your car. While I understand your frustration don't be too quick to make judgment. Does the dealership have a policy printed anywhere that states that they may road test your vehicle? This was our policy when I was working at a dealership.
Most techs these days ARE in their 20's. Possibly it was a joyride, however I think you should not judge the dealership so quickly. It will probably get messy now that lawyers are involved, as they are only in it for the $$$$. I hope it all works out for you.

Please don't offer legal advice if you are not a lawyer. As in this case, you are more than likely to screw it up and if the OP didn't already have a lawyer (as would frequently be the case) and he listened to you, you would cost him big bucks.

Whether they have a policy printed anywhere or not is irrelevant in this situation. Not only was the kid driving the car well AFTER it had been QCed and marked for release, he was also breaking the law when he wrecked it. No "printed policy" excuses lack of reasonable care, and this is a case of all out negligence/recklessness. The dealer is liable for the damage. Period.

I love the comment about the bald tires in Stuka's post. If a car has bald tires would a reasonable tech take it out and drive it hard? Savage admitted his boy acted recklessly!

As for attorneys, of course they are in it for the money. Why do you work for a living?

That said, you always have to weigh cost/benefit. In a case like this, you have some things in your favor. Yes insurance companies stall, but you also have several statutory remedies against them in most states. When situations like this happen, you should always seek legal advice. The first consultation should be free. If the azzhole tries to charge you, ignore him and just go somewhere else. This country is certainly not short of plaintiff's lawyers...or car dealers.

BTW, I am an attorney. CA.


I would start with Stuka's position to start. If the dealer isn't lying about the effect of the wreck, he should jump at it.

Last edited by roninnotroamin; 08-07-2006 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-12-2006, 02:15 PM
M3Paul-E M3Paul-E is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: E46M3
UPDATE on M3

As I cannot compel the dealer to purchase the car at a fair value for me to replace it (don't forget taxes, mods, time to find/freight one over, 3rd party inspections, etc), my only option is to have it fixed at the BEST possible shop I can find, have them pay for it, plus get me into a rental/loaner car. THIS they have done already. The car should be fixed within a week.
NOW, onto the diminished value: I have found the most experienced and knowledgable person in my area for this and he will prepare a report as soon as the work is complete. Based on the cost of the repair alone (approx $16K), his preliminary assessment is around $10K- $13K. The dealer has already suggested he will not entertain any conversation on DV, but that is what attorneys are for.
I, as the consumer, have a duty to "mitigate my loss". IOW, I cannot sit around for six months in a rental waiting for the perfect offer to come along. The dealer did offer to buy my car (for less than I owe on it) OR to sell me an '04 M3 with approx 15K less miles on it. It was keyed on 2 body panels, had curb rash all around, a smoker had owned it and it was covered in ash, plus the nose had been curbed (PLUS they wanted MORE money on a sale...I wouldn't have traded them even!). Not to mention no SMG, PDC, or alum trim, or cool mods.
The process is moving slowly, but we're at least moving. I'll let you know more when I do.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:26 AM
crvtt crvtt is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 275
Mein Auto: 745i
The problem is that you likely will not have a clean CarFax. CarFax lists accidents as well as air bag deployment. Hey, fender benders happen and most people can live with buying a car that was in a fender bender. But, show that same person a car that was in an accident where the airbags deployed and I'd venture to say most people would rather keep on looking OR be willing to buy the car at reducted price. Of all people the GM should know that high end cars with paint work are worth less. The paint work alone may only effect your value a few thousand. But, if your car has unibody damage this will GREATLY effect the value of your car since this is something that has to be disclosed at wholesale auto auctions. A late model high end unibody damage car will probably be worth about $5000 less than a straight car with no paint work. It's one thing if you were driving and you got into an accident, things happen and you have to deal with it. It seems that someone pulled out in front of your car, but, the tech was speeding so it's kind of his fault too, so why should you suffer the depreciation?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-25-2006, 10:31 AM
Chipster Chipster is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 848
Mein Auto: 2003 540-6spd 10/02 build
Before someone jumps my Shiat about this link being my post I will clarify that the following link is to Stuka's post about a similar situation. In no way is this my post, link or scenario.

Good luck with your situation. FYI, I received my M3 back from the shop and coincidentally happened to check the OBC and it showed the car was getting 5 miles per gallon. You've got to drive it pretty hard...or let it idle for some time....to get that kind of mileage...

Stuka's crahsed M3
__________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:19 PM
ase2dais's Avatar
ase2dais ase2dais is offline
Arrive Alive w/ my e92 M3
Location: =oo=DC Metro=oo=
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,562
Mein Auto: E90SG E92M3SG
I would check with the State Consumer Protection Board, there is a resident Consumer Lawyer there that monitors dealership unscrupulous practices. The Consumer Protection Agency in your State maybe a good start aso. Once you get a hold of one, they liketo be secretive about this meeting, they like to gather enuf materials for a possible case for you. While you have their ears, they may provide legal options, for you to decide your course of action.

No matter what you do, dont sign any paperwork without legal review. The dealership has alot or legal armaments, so be ready. But one thing is clear, you have damages to claim thats going for you. Even with the fix of the car, resell value had suffered. Good luck!

Last edited by ase2dais; 07-25-2006 at 04:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-25-2006, 07:24 PM
Estoril Estoril is offline
Registered User
Location: Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 53
Mein Auto: '06 M3
Unfortunately - accident in customer's cars is a somewhat common thing at most dealerships. As much as I'm sure you would prefer not to hear it - I'm predicting that the dealership will dig in deep and insist on repair to original spec. With an attorney you may reach an agreement on diminished residual value - but don't count on it. Also consider that you will be paying an attorney at a hefty fee to work on this - balance that with what you realistically expect to gain.

If you threaten to sue - count on the dealership to refer the matter to their attorneys (who get paid to do this over and over and over) who will stall and delay while your car gathers dust on some back lot while you continue to have to make payments on it and have to find a loaner. If you refuse (initially) to let them repair it - they will probably withdraw any loaner you may have (stating that you refuse to allow them to make reasonable repairs).

Note that they are experts at playing this game. You are possibly the 25th person this year whose car was damaged in one way or the other by service staff. They are used to it and threats will do little or nothing to concern them.

Wish it was a cheerier picture but this is how the game is played.

ETA: Don't expect ANY help from BMWNA.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-26-2006, 01:31 PM
Stuka Stuka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,675
Mein Auto: German
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estoril
ETA: Don't expect ANY help from BMWNA.
That is most definitely true, as it was in my case.

If they are not going to do the right thing, every news station in town will be interested in a story like this. BMW crashed by a dealer joyride makes a good headline.

As far as attorney's go, if it's the same model as PI, then the OP will be fine.
__________________
06 M3 6 speed CB/black ZCP
13 STI sedan WRB/alcantara
14 Evo GSR White/black
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-29-2006, 11:20 AM
M3Paul-E M3Paul-E is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: E46M3
I'll remain quiet for now, as we are right in the middle of it all. I'll check in on the thread and let you now when it's all resolved. Thanks for the thoughts and opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-25-2006, 07:35 PM
sc 540i's Avatar
sc 540i sc 540i is offline
.
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,342
Mein Auto: 540/6 Sport
Thats sucks man. I wish you the best of luck because I really don't have much advice to offer. Estoril made some pretty good points though.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-25-2006, 09:24 PM
Lori Lori is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 590
Mein Auto: Jet Black M3 ZCP
Doesn't he have the right to choose who fixes his car? Why can't he just get it fixed by a reputable shop of his choice and then sue the dealership to recover depreciation?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-26-2006, 06:14 AM
JST's Avatar
JST JST is offline
A sudden sense of liberty
Location: U of ///M
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,935
Mein Auto: 535xiT, Golf R, 987S
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lori
Doesn't he have the right to choose who fixes his car? Why can't he just get it fixed by a reputable shop of his choice and then sue the dealership to recover depreciation?
In Virginia he would, anyway.

While Estoril's cold-eyed appraisal of the situation bears thinking about, I wouldn't knuckle under so easily. Diminished value in the case of an M car that's been hit is a very real thing; in my own experience, I had a number of people tell me that they weren't interested in taking my 02 M3 in trade because it had paint work--and this was very minor paint work that was documented as having been done by BMWNA at the VPC before the car was delivered to its first owner (I got it used).

Speaking for myself personally, it would take a *substantial* price discount before I considered an M3 that had been hit as hard as your car has--there are too many clean, pampered ones out there to buy a car that has a "story."

Listen to your lawyer, who can advise you of your rights and options, but I think Stuka's original request in his circumstance (which, IIRC, was a new car at invoice--though this might not be an option on an E46 M3) was quite reasonable. Of course, his dealer didn't agree, and yours may not either.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-26-2006, 09:17 AM
ff ff is offline
.
Location:
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,762
Mein Auto: people crazy
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Paul-E
The GM came out and said he was absolutely adamant that there will be no deduction against the resale value of the car as it will be back to factory specs
Good, then the dealership should have no problem in giving you full trade-in value for the car after they've fixed it at their expense.

And then give you an unusually generous discount on a new car for your troubles.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-26-2006, 10:05 AM
ken6217 ken6217 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 226
Mein Auto: 2011 335 IS Coupe
So what did your attorney say? I would ask him for an opinion. Maybe a letter to the dealer from him may help your sitution out.
Ken
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-01-2006, 08:54 AM
Finamir's Avatar
Finamir Finamir is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jeeewsey
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 356
Mein Auto: '06 M3 ZCP 6 speed manual
I like this idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff
Good, then the dealership should have no problem in giving you full trade-in value for the car after they've fixed it at their expense.

And then give you an unusually generous discount on a new car for your troubles.
__________________
____________________________________________
'06 330xi.6spd manual.alum.ZPP.ZSP.18"162.CA.CWP.SIR
'07 touareg v10 tdi.pkg2.navi.reardiff.4zoneclimate
BLUUUUE....you're my boy!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-29-2006, 03:38 PM
mischik mischik is offline
Registered User
Location: Newport beach, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 49
Send a message via MSN to mischik
Mein Auto: M3
First I'd sue him. Then, I'd take it to a company like Spectrum Collision at their expense - have it towed to Lake Forest, CA. They are one of few authorized BMW repair shops that actually hired BMW technicians to do the work - and the techs are compensated by BMW and the local shop for their expertise. They can accurately assess the damage in about 3 weeks, and then you'll have a stronger "leg to stand on" in court or with the company by a reputable shop.

Dani
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-06-2006, 06:55 PM
DJ_INHALE DJ_INHALE is offline
Banned
Location: phoenix, az
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,604
Mein Auto: higher mile m3
SORRY TO HEAR THIS.

Good information on this thread and on Stukas.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-06-2006, 07:30 PM
BradATL BradATL is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Burlingame, CA
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 192
Mein Auto: 2014 X5 sDrive 35i
Paul-E

I'm glad you got an attorney. Hope he/she is a very good tort attorney. Through your attorney, attempt to negotiate whatever settlement that you think is fair. In my mind, simply repairing the vehicle isn't adequate. The structural integrity of the vehicle has been permanently compromised. Trade-in value will be significantly lower (at least $5000, maybe double that).

Here are 3 reasonable options:

1. They repair your vehicle PLUS cut you a check for $5000 to compensate you for diminished value

2. They purchase the car at full retail value (not wholesale or trade-in value), plus a small cash payment for your trouble

3. They pay you trade-in value for your car on a trade for a new M3, with a big discount off MSRP (minimum $3000 discount)

Good luck with this, and keep us posted. Man, I would be pissed if it happened to me.
__________________
2014 X5 sDrive 35i: xLine, imperial blue, mocha Nappa, premium pkg, 20" wheels, multi-contour seats, Harman Kardon, rear camera, dynamic dampers.

2011 BMW 528i: black sapphire, black Dakota, premium pkg, Nav, Sirius, PDC, rear camera, iPod/USB adapter, heated front seats. Sold 2014.

2005 X5 4.4i: Kalahari beige, truffle brown Dakota, premium pkg, sport pkg, 19" wheels, rear climate pkg. Sold 2011.

2004 M3: silver-gray, 6-spd manual, slick roof, cinnamon Nappa, alum trim. Sold 2005.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-12-2006, 11:15 PM
Stuka Stuka is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,675
Mein Auto: German
The one thing that I learned in this whole Savage BMW episode is...

SPEND THE $$$ AND BUY A BEATER AS A SECOND CAR

Something like a good running E30 for times when you need to go to Costo, the market, the ghetto, rock concerts, etc, and etc.

Having a single car as your sole mode of transportation sucks, and having a beater really takes the stress away.

Is switching a lawyer that works on contingency an option?
__________________
06 M3 6 speed CB/black ZCP
13 STI sedan WRB/alcantara
14 Evo GSR White/black
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-13-2006, 06:38 AM
vrrooom's Avatar
vrrooom vrrooom is offline
Vorsitzer
Location: New Hampshire - non taxes
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 344
Send a message via AIM to vrrooom
Mein Auto: Bummers, porkys
Just to share my experience trading in a E36 M3. The used car manager spent almost 1 hour going over the vehicle with a paint thickness gage. He really knew where to test, but the car was never touched, so I asked how much would a repair reduce the value 10-20% with no structural repairs. With structural repairs they would not take the car. Diminished value, you bet.
__________________
Current Rides *Retired Rides
E90 2009 335ix
F25 PCD 2011
E86 ED 2006
911 Turbo Cab
*E86 ED 2004
*E86 ED 2008
*E46 M3 2001
*E36 ED M3 1995,
*E36 325IS 1992
*E34 ED M5 1991
*E30 318ISLemon Lawed
Porkies*924,*944 ED
Benzies*ML430,*E300 ED
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-15-2006, 10:05 PM
M3Paul-E M3Paul-E is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: E46M3
Yes, switching to contingency is available if we go to trial.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > M Series > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
97' Wrecked M3 4 cheap Nohopeboy Cars - Private Party 10 12-02-2008 08:37 PM
Bimmerfest Caravan Route, in case anyone missed it MarcusSanDiego General BMW 19 05-02-2007 09:55 PM
FS: 2002 330Ci Loaded 16K Miles ONLY. M3 LOOK, Eisenmann Quad Exhausts!! SEE!! Micro Classifieds 4 11-05-2004 05:54 PM
BMW TEAM PTG M3s 1-2 IN VIR tim330i Motorsports, Racing & Track 4 10-05-2004 05:40 PM
NJ BMWCCA Round 2 Elwood Motorsports, Racing & Track 75 07-06-2004 04:45 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms