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E36 /7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 roadster and coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 12-26-2002, 12:32 PM
Mathew Mathew is offline
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Z4 anybody?

12 unsold Z4s on my dealer's lot
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2002, 12:33 PM
TD
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And it's warm where you are. So the weather is not an excuse.

The reality is that it's damn expensive for what it is. Throw in it's unconventional appearance and you have a hit or miss product.
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2002, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TD
And it's warm where you are. So the weather is not an excuse.

The reality is that it's damn expensive for what it is. Throw in it's unconventional appearance and you have a hit or miss product.
Yep, too much money when "equiped"
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2002, 12:40 PM
PhilH PhilH is offline
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I sort of hope it's a flop, and I wish the 7-series was doing worse. The long hood is OK, but as with the 7, too much is going on with the details. I dislike the interior, too. However, the performance numbers for a Z4 3.0 are similar to the Boxster and the price is lower.

It doesn't help that nearly all of the Z4's wheels designs suck IMO.

If a convertible isn't selling when it's a fresh, new design, can you imagine how few Z4s they'll sell four years from now?

Bangle needs to lose his job now, before it's time to finalize the E90.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2002, 12:44 PM
TD
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhilH
I sort of hope it's a flop, and I wish the 7-series was doing worse. The long hood is OK, but as with the 7, too much is going on with the details. I dislike the interior, too. However, the performance numbers for a Z4 3.0 are similar to the Boxster and the price is lower.

It doesn't help that nearly all of the Z4's wheels designs suck IMO.

If a convertible isn't selling when it's a fresh, new design, can you imagine how few Z4s they'll sell four years from now?

Bangle needs to lose his job now, before it's time to finalize the E90.
Funny. The one element of the Z4 I DO like is it's interior. I hate (despise, actually) both the interior and exterior of the E65 and I can't stand the Z4's exterior either. But it's interior is simple and functional. And no I-Drive.
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2002, 12:53 PM
Mathew Mathew is offline
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I dont usually consider price when i talk about cars, but this is one case where i do. For this car, you kinda need to get the bigger 3.0 liter engine, or else the fun factor goes way down. But the problem is the hefty price tag of $40K.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2002, 12:54 PM
PhilH PhilH is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TD
Funny. The one element of the Z4 I DO like is it's interior...But it's interior is simple and functional.
Too simple and functional for me. I'd describe it as stark and cold. Then again, I like nice dark wood trim...

The E46 interior with the wood trim is just about perfect for me. In fact, the whole design of the E46 is so close to what I'd call perfect that I couldn't take the risk of keeping my trusty E34 for another three years to see if Bangle would ruin the 3-series.
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2002, 01:00 PM
TD
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhilH
Too simple and functional for me. I'd describe it as stark and cold. Then again, I like nice dark wood trim...

The E46 interior with the wood trim is just about perfect for me. In fact, the whole design of the E46 is so close to what I'd call perfect that I couldn't take the risk of keeping my trusty E34 for another three years to see if Bangle would ruin the 3-series.
If you recall, I had the stark aluminum trim in my steel grey 330i SP. And I liked it. No wood in either E36 either.


Last edited by TD; 12-26-2002 at 01:18 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2002, 01:13 PM
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I drove by Assael BMW yesterday on my way to the in-laws and they must have had at least 10 of them on the lot parked streetside....
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2002, 03:47 PM
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the look has started to grow on me, but i definitely wouldn't buy one unless it was an M version at that price tag

ok, maybe i'll throw in a couple bucks extra for the M

but alas, they write that its not meant to be and probably more so with this many sitting on the lots

jeff
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  #11  
Old 12-26-2002, 11:18 PM
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a) why would anyone try to compare a roadster sportscar with a sedan/coupe; totally different market and reason to buy. Convertibles always cost more. What other roadsters are available that compare:

Mazda Miata; some people think it's overpriced for what you get, a nice runabout roadster with an economical price but comes up quite short on performance and technical features

Honda S2000; nice price at $33k, but no torque gets tiring and it's quirky handling is legendary for besting all but the most experienced drivers, hasn't proven reliable for autox/track

BMW 330ic; $51k+ fully optioned, nice land yacht, but not in the same class performance or intended-use wise

Mercedes-Benz SLK 230; priced one of those out lately fully optioned?, still no comparison performance wise, a Miata has more space and that's not much, about equivalent to a Z4 2.5 with less performance but starts at $41k, the retracting metal top has it's advantages and disadvantages

Mercedes-Benz SLK 320; starts around $46k and escalates quickly from there, 3.2L V-6 engine is torquey at the expense of hp which it needs to get the excess weight moving, no threat to the Z4 3.0 in the turns or down the straights, or at the dealership for that matter

Porsche Boxster 2.7; if you think the options stack up on a Z4 you ain't seen nothing yet, $55k easily obtainable and it's a bit short on performance too, design is getting dated

Porsche Boxster S: now we're heading over the top on cost, but it is a bit better on performance so maybe you can justify the expense.

What else did I forget?


b) why would anyone load up a sportscar with a bunch of unnecessary pozeur options? Oops, answered my own question.

c) obviously none of you has driven a 3.0 6 speed w/Sport option; it is one of the best handling BMW's ever built, neutral & stable beyond belief, one of the easiest cars to go fast in. I still chuckle to myself when I recall all the hulabaloo over the latest M5's handling when it was introduced. Ever seen one at a National level autox? I have, what a total joke, or rather, total pig. The Z4 drivetrain is well proven to be bulletproof, you can hammer on it all day at the autox/track and it won't flinch.

d) large numbers on the lot mean nothing, warm or cold climates. The larger dealers carry larger inventories and they intentionally trailed off Z3 inventory to avoid being caught with dead weight. Sales numbers are in line with Z3 numbers in the past for this time of year. The local dealer here (moderate climate) is selling them without much delay, and this is a very conservative town. Also, the 3.0 was only available the first several months of intro w/the Steptronic auto trans. The 6 speed just started hitting the dealerships around Dec. 12 and most of those aren't sitting around too long, at least the ones that are making the lot which weren't sold in advance; there was a backlog of 3.0 6 speed orders waiting for production to begin.

ps: Z4 3.0 6 speed w/Sport option only out the door for $41k

Last edited by TeamZ4; 12-26-2002 at 11:24 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2002, 06:12 AM
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Drove by the BMW dealership in Schenectady yesterday; they had a ton two weeks ago, and although we drove all around, only one in the showroom remained. Too bad - I was hoping they'd have one of the new colors out.

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  #13  
Old 12-27-2002, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TD
And it's warm where you are. So the weather is not an excuse.

The reality is that it's damn expensive for what it is. Throw in it's unconventional appearance and you have a hit or miss product.
I dunno about that, it is in the 40s today in Orlando...

But, there are a lot sitting at dealers it seems.

I think marketing did a bad job promoting the car, no hype about it whatsoever. Anyway, we will see how sales are doing when the figures are published.

re: price, don't think the car is too expensive, just the options.

And, the 2.5L is plenty of power in a car of the Z4's size. 2900lbs.
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  #14  
Old 12-27-2002, 07:33 AM
JPinTO JPinTO is offline
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The 3.0L is sufficient in that size vehicle. It propels it to 60 in 5.4... which is excellent particularly for a non-M branded car. Imagine what a MZ4 would do!
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2002, 10:54 AM
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Okay people... I know some of you hate the z4 (for whatever reason) and would love to see it fail... But the number sitting on a dealers lot at any moment means nothing. If a shipment just came in, there may be 15 sitting on a lot waiting for them to be prepped and delivered.

Is they aren't selling, how come I might not get the one I ordered in november until feb???



--nw
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2002, 05:44 PM
Mathew Mathew is offline
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Originally posted by nowonder

Is they aren't selling, how come I might not get the one I ordered in november until feb???

because you ordered it. When i ordered my car in January, it didnt arrive until April. And thats three months, just as long as your wait.
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2002, 08:48 PM
DINANISR3 DINANISR3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TeamZ4

Mercedes-Benz SLK 230; priced one of those out lately fully optioned?, still no comparison performance wise, a Miata has more space and that's not much, about equivalent to a Z4 2.5 with less performance but starts at $41k, the retracting metal top has it's advantages and disadvantages

[/B]
The s/c 2.3 motor will take a 2.5 bmw motor.. i know.. i have done it.. many times.. the engine is alot more punchy
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  #18  
Old 12-27-2002, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mathew
because you ordered it. When i ordered my car in January, it didnt arrive until April. And thats three months, just as long as your wait.

We ordered mine on Dec. 16, status 150 on Dec. 18, delivery at the dealer is scheduled Jan. 10

the dealer has to mark the order as "Sold, Priority 1", this shifts the order ahead of general allocation production. It's possible your dealer is waiting on allocation rather than going out and locating one for you that has been allocated to another dealer, not very good service in my opinion.

Don't be a *****cat, but also don't be a jerk. Be firm and insist that you want to purchase and receive a vehicle quickly, if not through them then another dealer. If that doesn't work, ask to speak to the Sales Manager, then the General Manager, then go somewhere else if all else fails.

Last edited by TeamZ4; 12-27-2002 at 09:48 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-27-2002, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DINANISR3
The s/c 2.3 motor will take a 2.5 bmw motor.. i know.. i have done it.. many times.. the engine is alot more punchy
probably quite true, I have never driven the SLK 230; I forgot that it probably has a much stronger torque curve due to the blower. However, it costs as much as the Z4 3.0 which should be a much stronger performer.
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2002, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
I dunno about that, it is in the 40s today in Orlando...

But, there are a lot sitting at dealers it seems.

I think marketing did a bad job promoting the car, no hype about it whatsoever. Anyway, we will see how sales are doing when the figures are published.

re: price, don't think the car is too expensive, just the options.

And, the 2.5L is plenty of power in a car of the Z4's size. 2900lbs.

Well consider this; why would you dump a bunch of money on advertising a new vehicle during a period you expect sales volume to be low? BMW received flack for releasing the Z4 during the slow sales period, but it's easy to be judgemental when your ignorant of the reality of building cars. Which do you think is smarter; releasing a new vehicle and working out production line issues, etc. when sales demand is high or when sales demend is low? BMW has proven to be quite a successful privately owned company; they're quite a bit smarter than some people give them credit for.

As for option prices, have you seen the price Porsche wants for just a wheel/tire upgrade? There are plenty of BMW buyers who walk in and just plunk down the cash for what they want, regardless of the cost. Again, if you were BMW management what would you do in this situation; be the tooth fairy or generate as much profit as possible?
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2003, 05:55 PM
Mathew Mathew is offline
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Re: Re: Z4 anybody?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave 330i
I received an offer from BMW for a pair of $100 sunglasses if I test drove or inspect the Z4.
From BMWUSA or your dealer?

Do you know what hte sunglasses looked like? The blue/silver wrap around shades?
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2003, 01:18 PM
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Drove by my dealer today, 14 Mini's on the lot, and only 3 z4's... I thought there was a waiting list for the mini?

Oh, wait, maybe the number of cars on a dealers lot at any given moment doesn't mean anything, and is just something trolls like to point out to imply that the car isn't selling well.

--nw
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  #23  
Old 01-08-2003, 02:37 PM
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Re: Re: Z4 anybody?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave 330i
But what bothers me most was the two main gages are recessed so much that if you are not viewing them directly, the numbers are blocked from view by the deep cylinders.
the tach and speedo are intentionally recessed to help eliminate glare with the top down. Since the driver sits directly in line with those gauges I'm not really sure what your beef is, other than if your looking to find faults I suppose anything will do.

Then again, maybe you're just one of those paranoid passenger types and not being able to see the tach and speedo from the passenger seat is unbearable ...

Last edited by TeamZ4; 01-08-2003 at 02:49 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-08-2003, 03:02 PM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DINANISR3
The s/c 2.3 motor will take a 2.5 bmw motor.. i know.. i have done it.. many times.. the engine is alot more punchy
The SLK 230 Kompressor does 0-60 in about 8 seconds, no?

I had to look it up the other day when I *EMBARRASED* a guy in a SLK 230 that wanted to race...Just wanted to know if there was even a chance I'd beat him.

*He was revving his engine, looking my way to egg me on. I revved in response and when the light turn red, he took off like a complete jack-ass while I just prodded along like I normally would. What he probably didn't realize was my V1 was going off like crazy. Hopefully there really was a cop down the street...I never found out since I had to turn off in the next block, but that Ka band signal was pretty strong.
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  #25  
Old 01-08-2003, 06:34 PM
DINANISR3 DINANISR3 is offline
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i think a little less than that.. because a C230K runs 0-60 in 7.6 and 1/4 mile in 15.6.. and the SLK is much lighter.. but good kill.. i think its cuz you have a manual tranny.. but i think on the freeway.. it would be a a little different or very close.. btw on my C class i have a complete lorinser cat back exhaust.. it helped a little.. but i dont think too much.. and hack.. dont u have MODS on your car? im sure that helps u out as well..
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