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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:51 AM
Chief F1 Fan Chief F1 Fan is offline
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Recommend some new brake pads

These are the dustiest pads I've ever had on a car. NE1 have a suggestion as to a less-dusty pad? Thx
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2007, 08:59 AM
Chief F1 Fan Chief F1 Fan is offline
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15 people look at this thread and not one has a suggestion??
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  #3  
Old 04-19-2007, 05:02 PM
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M.Wong M.Wong is offline
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Hello,

You are in the DIY section where people post how to's... see info text below taken from the sticky post.

Try posting your question on the 5er board that fits your model year. Start here:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

And select E34, E39, or E60.

(I went with Akebono Euro pads front and rear on the E38, virtually no dust, no rattle, no squeal, but a decrease in pedal sharpness/feel.)

Good luck!











Should I Post Here? Please Read Before Posting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Folks,

This section was intended as a place to write up any procedure you felt would be a benefit to the 5er collective: Oil change, replacing the radiator, upgrading to Halo lights, replacing the final stage resistor, etc.

It was not intended as a place to post questions.

Please post questions for the relevant E-Code number of your BMW to the other 3 sub-forums here and I think you will get better visibility.

Thanks!

Your Friendly Moderator
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E38 2000 740iL Orient Blue
E91 2012 328xiT Alpine White

Passed on to new families:
E30 1987 325i Royal Blue
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:31 PM
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Ågent99 Ågent99 is offline
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I like the Axxis Deluxe+ pads. Find them from Dave Zeckhuasen: www.zeckhausen.com
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:40 PM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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+1 on the Axxis Deluxe. Minimal dust compared to OEM. However, if you consistently brake nice and easy, a squeak can develop. One or two hard stops and it'll go away.
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:42 PM
PJB. PJB. is offline
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+1 on the Axxxis Deluxe pads. They're the same pad as the Pagid, same manufacturer. I got them because of stopping power, hearing that they really cut down on the dust but I wasn't prepared to believe the hype, plus I have Style 5s. Boy was I surprised! I used to be embarrassed by my sense of fashion and my front wheel dust, now I'm just embarrassed by my sense of fashion!
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2007, 04:10 PM
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TeaRex714 TeaRex714 is offline
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Gotta love the Axxis Deluxe for low brake dust. Like the other poster said though... it's hard to keep the squeek away (actually, the other poster didn't say that exactly... the squeek was mentioned. It has been my experience that it's hard to keep away.) I am not very high on braking performance though. I guess it's a trade-off.
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:28 AM
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jonmcc jonmcc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJB. View Post
+1 on the Axxxis Deluxe pads. They're the same pad as the Pagid, same manufacturer. I got them because of stopping power, hearing that they really cut down on the dust but I wasn't prepared to believe the hype, plus I have Style 5s. Boy was I surprised! I used to be embarrassed by my sense of fashion and my front wheel dust, now I'm just embarrassed by my sense of fashion!
really? I know they are associated with PBR, but pagid too? even if they are made by pagid, theyre not the exact same pad. the pagid ones give off crazy dust just like the OEM jurid ones

+500 on Axxis deluxe pads. Ive never seen such low-dusting pads, theyre amazing. almost the same brake pedal feel, same stopping power, and mine have only squeeked a couple of times. but the others are right, a couple of hard stops and the squeek is gone.

also, I ordered the regular (older I guessing) PBR/Axxis Deluxe pads, and I see on www.zeckhausen.com that they have Axxis Deluxe Advanced now instead of the ones I have. does anyone know if they are different from mine or just re-named for marketing?
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:21 PM
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mmm635 mmm635 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJB. View Post
+1 on the Axxxis Deluxe pads. They're the same pad as the Pagid, same manufacturer. I got them because of stopping power, hearing that they really cut down on the dust but I wasn't prepared to believe the hype, plus I have Style 5s. Boy was I surprised! I used to be embarrassed by my sense of fashion and my front wheel dust, now I'm just embarrassed by my sense of fashion!
Axxis and Pagid are different manufacturers. Axxis, I believe, are from Australia, and Pagid are manufactured in Germany. Additionally, Pagid and Textar are under one roof.

I would recommend the Axxis Ultimates if you want good stopping power and less dust than OEM. Remember, stopping power and brake dust are pretty much directly proportional.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2007, 06:42 AM
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SHWELL SHWELL is offline
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Akebonos are damn good for a low dust application.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:39 AM
armysweitzer armysweitzer is offline
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what pads will give the BEST braking performance regardless of dust and hoping to keep squeaking to a bearable minimum?
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:01 PM
hxgaser hxgaser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armysweitzer View Post
what pads will give the BEST braking performance regardless of dust and hoping to keep squeaking to a bearable minimum?
Best for what purpose? There are significant differences among brake pad materials. Racing pads will obviously have the best braking potential, but it only works when it is property heated up. Also it will eat through rotor like nobody's business; therefore, in everyday application, you really don't want to use racing pads. Most of so call stree performance pads will give you good braking power for a spirited driving. I personally like Hawk HPS pads with simple Brembo blank rotors. Feel of braking is very linear, and works great for occational beating down the twisties. Initial bite in very soft, but it feels like bear claws as you step further on it. But let me warn you, it creates a ton of dust.

Modern brake works not by rubbing the pad against the rotor. The theory is that the pad compound actually gets embedded in rotor. And it is that compound against the same compound that works the brake. That is why the bedding procedure is very important. Also for a maticulous person like me (aka anal) I stay away from using old rotor which used to run different pad compound than a new pad. Also you should run same pad compounds for both front and back, since different compounds start working at difference temperature.
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  #13  
Old 04-28-2010, 01:32 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hxgaser View Post
Modern brake works not by rubbing the pad against the rotor. The theory is that the pad compound actually gets embedded in rotor. And it is that compound against the same compound that works the brake. That is why the bedding procedure is very important.
Agreed. AFAIK, what we mere drivers call braking "friction" is mainly due to chemical bonds of bedded-brake-on-rotor against brake pad surface breaking and remaking themselves, with heat energy poured out as a result of the friction caused as the bonds break and remake themselves over and over again (covalent bonds IIRC???).

I don't quite understand how chemical bonds breaking and making themselves cause enough friction to stop a speeding BMW E39 - but IIRC, it's all explained in the rebedding PDFs at this thread.

Quote:
you should run same pad compounds for both front and back
Yup. When I researched how I could compare friction materials in use on my E39, I ran into these experimental testing results for Police-use brake pads, which, IIRC, concluded the single most important factor in stopping power for replacement pads was similar materials front and rear!

- Detailed report by the National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center titled:Replacement Brake Pad Performance Evaluation Project National Institute of Justice/Michigan State Police (dated March 2001)
- Summary report of the Equipment Performance Report: 2000 Evaluation of Replacement Brake Pads for Police Patrol Vehicles (dated February 2001)

So, given that the most important factor may be similar materials front and rear, and bearing in mind the OEM Jurid 187 (fronts) & OEM Textar T4071 (rear) combo, do the Axxis Deluxe crowds recommend Axxis Deluxe on both axles (or just the front which dusts the most in the OEM configuration?

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  #14  
Old 04-28-2010, 02:01 PM
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doru doru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Agreed. AFAIK, what we mere drivers call braking "friction" is mainly due to chemical bonds of bedded-brake-on-rotor against brake pad surface breaking and remaking themselves, with heat energy poured out as a result of the friction caused as the bonds break and remake themselves over and over again (covalent bonds IIRC???).

I don't quite understand how chemical bonds breaking and making themselves cause enough friction to stop a speeding BMW E39 - but IIRC, it's all explained in the rebedding PDFs at this thread.



Yup. When I researched how I could compare friction materials in use on my E39, I ran into these experimental testing results for Police-use brake pads, which, IIRC, concluded the single most important factor in stopping power for replacement pads was similar materials front and rear!

- Detailed report by the National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center titled:Replacement Brake Pad Performance Evaluation Project National Institute of Justice/Michigan State Police (dated March 2001)
- Summary report of the Equipment Performance Report: 2000 Evaluation of Replacement Brake Pads for Police Patrol Vehicles (dated February 2001)

So, given that the most important factor may be similar materials front and rear, and bearing in mind the OEM Jurid 187 (fronts) & OEM Textar T4071 (rear) combo, do the Axxis Deluxe crowds recommend Axxis Deluxe on both axles (or just the front which dusts the most in the OEM configuration?

Blue, I thought that the "slice" as you call it is cut in such a way as to balance the rotor. Not to check how much life left of the said rotor. I thought once the pad wears out (if it's OEM), the rotor is pretty much toast - as in "you cannot resurface it" due to thickness limitation / piston caliper movement
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  #15  
Old 04-28-2010, 02:54 PM
bmwm3coupe bmwm3coupe is offline
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I have used both the OEM pads and I have been using Axxis Ultimate for the last 8 years on 3 different BMW's ('02 M3, '05 330i, '00 540i), and I feel that hands-down the Axxis Ultimate pads have more bite/braking torque and better feel than the stock pads.
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  #16  
Old 04-28-2010, 02:55 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
Blue, I thought that the "slice" as you call it is cut in such a way as to balance the rotor. Not to check how much life left of the said rotor. I thought once the pad wears out (if it's OEM), the rotor is pretty much toast - as in "you cannot resurface it" due to thickness limitation / piston caliper movement
Yes, the question in the referenced photo was answered in the original thread where the picture reference came from. You are right.

I was too lazy to create a NEW picture by blanking out the question (sorry for the confusion it caused).

BTW, since it was so hard to find ANY decently scientific comparison of replacement brake pads, I took the liberty of removing security from the 200-page detailed brake-pad-comparison PDFs recommended above so that I could shrink them down to the 1K limit imposed by the admins here.

I haven't read these reports in years but IIRC, an important criteria was matching the fronts and the rears with respect to brake pad materials.

They tested the Hawkheads; but not the Axxis Deluxe Advanced nor the Axxis Ultimates or Akebono Euro Ceramics. They didn't even test the original OEM Jurid 187 (front) & OEM Textar T4071 (rear).

If anyone can find a SCIENTIFIC (please!) comparative report on any of those most-recommended pads, I would be very happy to see it before I go and buy my next brake pads (my red brake light is on at the moment).


PS: (I wish the moderators would allow me 1.5K; it would make it sooo much less work to post useful PDFs which get removed off the Internet in their original places).
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:05 PM
RayH RayH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armysweitzer View Post
what pads will give the BEST braking performance regardless of dust and hoping to keep squeaking to a bearable minimum?
Porterfield R4 for track R4S for daily driving.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:42 PM
bmwm3coupe bmwm3coupe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armysweitzer View Post
what pads will give the BEST braking performance regardless of dust and hoping to keep squeaking to a bearable minimum?
Axxis Ultimate.

Although I love the idea of a pad with low/no dust, I can't take a slightly less performance pad compared to the dusty OEM pads. That is why I am going with Axxis Ultimate for a street pad - higher performance compared to the OEM pad, but still dusty. Get them from: www.zeckhausen.com
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:45 PM
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mark_m5 mark_m5 is online now
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I want OEM performance, so I'd stick with OEM pads. I don't give a care about dust.
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:14 PM
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SPLITSENSETAM SPLITSENSETAM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_m5 View Post
I want OEM performance, so I'd stick with OEM pads. I don't give a care about dust.

Same here ..i like oem ..i acually dont mind cleaning my rims once every 2 weeks.
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  #21  
Old 06-17-2010, 11:12 PM
rashid rashid is offline
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Originally Posted by SPLITSENSETAM View Post
Same here ..i like oem ..i acually dont mind cleaning my rims once every 2 weeks.
Also same here ...
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  #22  
Old 06-18-2010, 02:53 AM
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Textar ceramic fusions paired with brembo rotors....very happy with bite and low dust
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  #23  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:54 AM
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Jason5driver Jason5driver is offline
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Originally Posted by mmm635 View Post
Axxis and Pagid are different manufacturers. Axxis, I believe, are from Australia, and Pagid are manufactured in Germany. Additionally, Pagid and Textar are under one roof.

I would recommend the Axxis Ultimates if you want good stopping power and less dust than OEM. Remember, stopping power and brake dust are pretty much directly proportional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_m5 View Post
I want OEM performance, so I'd stick with OEM pads. I don't give a care about dust.
+1!

Which has better braking power/ bite/ braking torque?
The OEM pads or the Axxis Ultimates?
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  #24  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:59 AM
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doru doru is offline
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So what is the difference between Axxis Deluxe and Akebono Euro?
Anyone run them both, to make an informed comment?
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  #25  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:38 PM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
So what is the difference between Axxis Deluxe and Akebono Euro?
Anyone run them both, to make an informed comment?
I've used the OEM (Jurid), Axxis Deluxe and the Akebono Euro. I found the Jurids to have the best initial brake bite and a very linear feel on the brake pedal. A great brake pad but they were very dusty. If I was an aggressive or hard driver, I would probably stay with these pads. Since my hard driving days are long past, my priorities are to NOT have to clean my wheels on a weekly basis. I had the Axxis on my previous e39 and found they gave up some brake bite and did not have that same linear pedal feel but were nearly dustless. They were prone to the occasional squealing which was cured by rebedding the pads. I am actually running a mix of Akebonos on the front and Axxis Ultimate on the rear on my current e39. I don't think the mixing of pad types makes a big difference as many change out fronts well before they change the rears, resulting in a mismatched set. I found the Euros have a similar feel to the Axxis and are also nearly dust free with no squealing. I found that the difference in pedal feel is noticeable but does not really affect braking performance as you subconsciously adjust to the required pedal pressure required, similar to renting a car. In a direct comparison, I would highly doubt that someone could tell the difference between these two pads. In terms of braking distance, unless you measured this performance it is difficult to qualitatively differentiate between pads (which raises the question that shouldn't braking distance be equal, irrespective of pad type, with the use of ABS as you just need to lock them up (which every brake system should do)?). All things considered, both pads are similar and represent a reasonable near dustless alternative.

Last edited by Fudman; 04-28-2010 at 05:47 PM.
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