Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-02-2008, 12:19 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
How to check & replace your BMW front disc brakes and rotors

Can you guys give me quick advice on checking and replacing the pads and rotors on a 2001 BMW 525i that I bought recently from a friend?

The check brake light went on about a month ago. I read all I could on the topic, including the shop manual that came with the car. I tried the job near the end of the day today.

In the end, I failed to replace or fix anything.

But I learned a bunch. Since I felt this forum didn't have a complete how to (I couldn't find it anyway) that told me exactly what I needed to know, I'll write one up so everyone else doesn't have to experiment as much as I did.

When I post that writeup to this thread, I'll ask what else you'd do to improve the procedure for better success for everyone?

How's that sound as a starting point?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bmw_525i_shop_manual.jpg
Views:	10656
Size:	80.0 KB
ID:	137504  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf bluebee_bmw_ChangingBrakePads.pdf (482.4 KB, 5160 views)

Last edited by bluebee; 03-02-2008 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Uploaded the PDF of the brake howto I found for the 525
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 03-02-2008, 12:22 AM
xaff xaff is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: London, Ontario
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 390
Mein Auto: 97' 540i
Step 1. WASH THAT CAR. Dude for crying out loud.. your wheels are really.. really dirty.

Step 2. Follow the step by step procedure. :

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech...Brake_Pads.htm

Last edited by xaff; 03-02-2008 at 12:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-02-2008, 01:04 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Quote:
Follow the step by step procedure
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech...Brake_Pads.htm
Oh my! I searched and searched and had NOT uncovered that 'pelican parts' howto. Maybe because it's for a 3-series and I was searching for 5-series articles. Dunno if they would be the same or not.

I'm assuming you're suggesting the 3-series is the same procedure as the 5-series?

Either way, I will read it now and intersperse afterward my experiences with doing the brakes and getting nowwhere given the (inadequate) information I had found and given the Bentley manuals that come with the car!

Thank you for the helpful pelican link!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf bluebee_pelican_howto.pdf (284.7 KB, 1995 views)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-02-2008, 02:11 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Does it matter that I'm missing some rubber jack point holders?

I noticed from the howto that I referenced that my new BMW is missing the jack point holders (rubber pads under the frame in four spots). All mine are missing. Why would they be missing and do you think it matters?

Anyway, following the previously referenced jack point article, I parked the bluebee bmw on a slight downslope; I then drove the bluebee bmw onto ramps to lift the front end; I then chocked the front and back of one rear wheel; this enabled me to get the jack onto the suggested front center rubber jack point; and then I was able to put jack stands on the two front side frame jack points (which seem to be missing their rubber pads).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_jack_point.jpg
Views:	1082
Size:	84.5 KB
ID:	137511   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_chock_wheel.jpg
Views:	1295
Size:	57.3 KB
ID:	137512   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebmw_jack_front.gif
Views:	23885
Size:	138.4 KB
ID:	137513   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_jack_stand.jpg
Views:	33473
Size:	66.6 KB
ID:	137514   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_center_jack_point modified.jpg
Views:	2056
Size:	24.2 KB
ID:	137515  

Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_remove_hubcap.jpg
Views:	3753
Size:	78.8 KB
ID:	137516  
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-02-2008, 02:33 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Is it just me or is it hard to find a 7mm hex wrench?

I had difficulty removing the five 17mm lug bolts holding on each front wheel. I tried multiple socket wrenches and used my feet until I could get them to budge.

However, that was nothing compared to what it took to get the 7mm caliper bolts out!

To remove the two 7mm caliper bolts, I needed to run to the store to get a wrench that fit! I tried three stores before I finally found a hex set that had a 7mm hex socket! I never did find 7mm allen (L-shaped) wrenches!

Be forwarned if you are reading this to do your very first BMW 5-series brake job!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_removing_lug_bolts.jpg
Views:	1296
Size:	76.8 KB
ID:	137517   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_five_lug_bolts.jpg
Views:	970
Size:	85.5 KB
ID:	137518   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_brake_caliper.jpg
Views:	2246
Size:	73.6 KB
ID:	137519   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_end_caps.jpg
Views:	4597
Size:	60.6 KB
ID:	137520   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_endcap_out.jpg
Views:	2296
Size:	71.4 KB
ID:	137521  

Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_7mm_bolt.jpg
Views:	2903
Size:	65.7 KB
ID:	137522   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_no_7mm_hex.jpg.gif
Views:	2641
Size:	180.9 KB
ID:	137523   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_found_7mm_hex.jpg
Views:	2774
Size:	68.3 KB
ID:	137524   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_remove_7mm_hex.jpg
Views:	5644
Size:	64.5 KB
ID:	137525   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_almost_out_7mm_hex.jpg
Views:	1644
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	137526  

Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_hex_bolts_out.jpg
Views:	2398
Size:	115.1 KB
ID:	137527   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_buy_tools_at_home_depot.jpg
Views:	1608
Size:	71.4 KB
ID:	137528  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-02-2008, 02:56 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Removing the caliper spring was an interesting manipulative act.

After contemplating my enemy, screwdrivering the spring in the middle to pull it up and then needlenosing the hole grips out seemed to be the best way to remove the spring.

Then it was time to pry the caliper off. Since I was working the right front side, there was no brake sensor so I skipped that step.

The prying seems to be upward being best to get the caliper off. The Bentley shop manuals that come with the car say to open the master cylinder brake reservoir but when I looked in the hood I didn't find it so I skipped that step. It was only way later that I found it hidden under an air intake!

For those of you following this procedure to do it yourself, take a moment to locate the brake master cylinder in the engine compartment as noted in the Bentleys.

Once I had the caliper off, I hung it on the shock springs to that the brake lines wouldn't be stressed unduly.

To keep the disc brakes from closing up on me, I put a borrowed disc brake spreader into the jaws of the caliper and screwed it a bit to prevent them from snapping shut by accident while I had my hands in there.

Now I was ready to take some measurements!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_caliper_spring.jpg
Views:	6876
Size:	77.9 KB
ID:	137529   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_prying_up.jpg
Views:	1843
Size:	75.7 KB
ID:	137530   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_clips_out.jpg
Views:	1575
Size:	77.7 KB
ID:	137531   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_still_prying.jpg
Views:	1932
Size:	78.2 KB
ID:	137532   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_getting_closer.jpg
Views:	1618
Size:	73.4 KB
ID:	137533  

Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_almost_done.jpg
Views:	1469
Size:	72.6 KB
ID:	137534   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_almost_off.jpg
Views:	2064
Size:	76.9 KB
ID:	137535   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_finally_off.jpg
Views:	1565
Size:	82.8 KB
ID:	137536   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_caliper_hung.jpg
Views:	1774
Size:	75.2 KB
ID:	137537   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_caliper_offandout.jpg
Views:	2863
Size:	63.8 KB
ID:	137538  

Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_disc_spreader.jpg
Views:	7598
Size:	70.6 KB
ID:	137539   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_disc_tool.jpg
Views:	2031
Size:	118.2 KB
ID:	137540  

Last edited by bluebee; 03-02-2008 at 04:17 AM. Reason: fix typos made cuz I was tired
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-25-2008, 11:28 PM
VinZul's Avatar
VinZul VinZul is offline
Used and Abused
Location: Philadelphia, PA
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 777
Mein Auto: 6.0 GMC Slow Mobile
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I noticed from the howto that I referenced that my new BMW is missing the jack point holders (rubber pads under the frame in four spots). All mine are missing. Why would they be missing and do you think it matters?

Anyway, following the previously referenced jack point article, I parked the bluebee bmw on a slight downslope; I then drove the bluebee bmw onto ramps to lift the front end; I then chocked the front and back of one rear wheel; this enabled me to get the jack onto the suggested front center rubber jack point; and then I was able to put jack stands on the two front side frame jack points (which seem to be missing their rubber pads).


did anyone notice the pink shoes and shirt?
__________________
2000 528i SPORT upgrades- Eibach Anti-Roll Kit-Hawk Performance Ceramic Pads- ATE PremiumOne Slotted Rotor - Goodridge G-Stop Brakeline Kit - M5 Power Fold mirrors - M5 Front Bumper (SOLD)

2009 G8 GXP (SOLD)

2005 G35 (SOLD)

2003 540I SPORT --- BLEW UP! Redlining is a lot worse then I thought.

2003 GMC Sierra Denali (SOLD BUT STILL USE IT)

ON THE HUNT FOR A...G8 GT MAYBE?





Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-02-2008, 12:54 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
The first question is where is the best howto for checking & fixing brakes?

The first question is where is the best howto for checking & fixing the brakes on a BMW 525i?

I found this by googling how to decipher my VIN to figure out what car I have:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/

And, I found an old and outdated for my car BMW VIN decoder at:
http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/t...n_decoding.htm

That combination told me my new vehicle was a BMW 5-series E39 sedan, 525i USA model, 2001 model year, with the M54 engine, & an automatic transmission

Knowing this was an "E39" helped me decide on this bimmerfest forum to post my (failed so far) experience in checking & replacing the front brake pads.

Searching on all the permutations and combinations of "BMW E39 525i Brake Pads & Rotors Check & Replacement", I found a few not very helpful FAQs, for example:
http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/BrakeInfo/brakes.htm
and, unfortunately, only one even halfway decent how to, for example:
http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/C...gBrakePads.htm

Having never worked on this BMW before, I had to read up on even the simplest things, like how to jack the car up properly!
http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/jack/jack.htm

I still don't know where to get rotors and pads because the dealership is closed (I started around 7pm on Saturday), my Bay Area AutoZone had nothing, neither did the local Kragan. I was hoping to complete the job tomorrow (Sunday).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_BMW_VIN_decoding.jpg
Views:	11019
Size:	120.8 KB
ID:	137505   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_e39_brake_diagram.jpg
Views:	2294
Size:	68.7 KB
ID:	137506   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_brake_pad_repair_procedure.jpg
Views:	1360
Size:	133.9 KB
ID:	137507   Click image for larger version

Name:	bluebee_bmw_jack_points.jpg
Views:	1190
Size:	256.5 KB
ID:	137508  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-03-2008, 03:09 PM
Crutzy Crutzy is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 84
Mein Auto: BMW 5-series E39
What strikes me as very interesting is very few people seem to check disk runout!
You, of all people, have checked your runout.
Amazing. Simply amazing.
I'll bet nobody can find anyone else who has posted a screenshot of them checking runout!
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...5&d=1204456414
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-03-2008, 04:15 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Does ceramic buy me anything over semi-metallic given I drive normally?

Quote:
What strikes me as very interesting is very few people seem to check disk runout!
I checked the warpage (0.002 to 0.0025 inches) but I couldn't find the specifications for the maximum!

By the way Pacific BMW is out of the running because they don't do shipping (someone did mention that but it only sank in today when I called).

Likewise, EuroParts has ceramic pads for almost the same price as semimetallic (I don't know the exact spelling but they didn't carry Axxis; they had "PBR Ultimates" for the front and "Miley" for the back pads). Likewise, PelicanParts didn't have Axxis either.

QUESTION: Given the price is the same and given I'll never race ever (I drive normally) - would you recommend the ceramics or the semi-metallics?

I'm assuming from what I've read that this is the distinction (please correct where I guess wrong):

SEMI-METALLIC: "OE" (original equipment)
CERAMIC: After market

SEMI-METALLIC: Very slightly cheaper (but only by a couple of dollars)
CERAMIC: Almost the same price (at least at Europarts & Pelican Parts)

SEMI-METALLIC: Not as fade resistant (but then again, I don't race)
CERAMIC: Fade resistant so good for frequent high speed braking)

SEMI-METALLIC: Softer so longer-lasting and better on the rotors
CERAMIC: Harder (I'm guessing) so may "chew" up rotors (I read that)

SEMI-METALLIC: Dusty (I read that somewhere)
CERAMIC: Less dusty (but what has that got to do with braking?)

SEMI-METALLIC: Quieter (I'm guessing based on what EuroParts said)
CERAMIC: Noisier (again, what has that got to do with braking?)

Overall, I'm confused.
If the ceramics were more expensive, the choice would be easy (go with the semi-metallics as OE); but given the price is about the same, that makes the choice harder.

Does ceramic buy me anything over semi-metallic given I drive normally?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-03-2008, 07:59 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
The BMW dealerships are 2x the price of the parts houses

I was only able to contact a half-dozen suppliers but what I found was that Crevier and the local BMW were 2x the prices for the same quality than the other bimmerfest suggested suppliers for front and rear pads, rotors, and sensors.

Here's a cut and paste from my spreadsheet, bearing in mind some (like EuroParts) quoted Brembo rotors while others (like Bavarian) quoted ATE; likewise with the pads where some (like AllEuro) quoted Textor while others (like Pelican) quoted Jurid, while others (like Europarts) quoted PBR Ultimates, and others (like Bavarian) quoted Pagid, etc.

All in all, since what I want is as close to OE as possible, I'll go with the best price from the set below (I'm still waiting on the answer to the ceramics vs semimetallic that I posed above though - since ceramics are essentially the same price as semimetallic).

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	pacific.gif
Views:	5623
Size:	63.5 KB
ID:	137807   Click image for larger version

Name:	total.gif
Views:	55690
Size:	35.8 KB
ID:	137810   Click image for larger version

Name:	pads.gif
Views:	6872
Size:	21.1 KB
ID:	137811   Click image for larger version

Name:	spreadsheet.gif
Views:	70266
Size:	13.3 KB
ID:	137812  

Last edited by bluebee; 03-03-2008 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Was in a hurry and made a few mistakes
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-03-2008, 09:04 PM
Ben Carufel Ben Carufel is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego, California
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,318
Send a message via AIM to Ben Carufel
Mein Auto: BMW Motorcycles
OH. MY. GOD.

With all due respect -- are you an engineer with tons of time on your hands??

I have *never* seen anyone turn a brake job into an hours-long research experiment.

In all honesty, I am torn between wanting to respect you and wanting to ridicule you.

I'm going to go with respect, because you have the tenacity of no mortal I've ever encountered...

__________________
Ben
2000 BMW 528iT - 1989 BMW 325i S50 - 2007 BMW R1200S - 2002 BMW R1150GS ADV - 1972 BMW R60/5
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-03-2008, 09:29 PM
94is's Avatar
94is 94is is offline
A Really Crazy Car Girl
Location: Sunny Daygo
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 147
Send a message via AIM to 94is
Mein Auto: 94' S50B32 325is
Dear God.
__________________
-Kim
1994 325is #94 IP

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-03-2008, 10:11 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Quote:
I have *never* seen anyone turn a brake job into an hours-long research experiment.
Hi Ben,
I've never done this job before so it behooves me to make the right moves. Since I don't have the intuition you guys have (e.g., you intuitively know whether you want CERAMIC or SEMI-METALLIC pads), I have to research or ask (which is just another way of researching).

You guys have helped me a lot so far and I appreciate that help.

BTW, I'm a program manager. I analyze and organize projects much more complicated than a brake job for a living. Almost all of them go wrong in some way or another as we're always working things that have never before been done. In the post mortems, we find, in general, the mistakes were simple to predict, if only we knew enough ahead of time what simple things to look for.

I'm just trying to simplify a brake job given the variables handed to me, one of which is finding a good supplier (given the cost difference between any two suppliers is over 100%!

I'm still wavering on getting CERAMIC vs SEMI-METALLIC if anyone can tell me what the difference for a sedate driver might be (it's not cost).
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-03-2008, 10:23 PM
Ben Carufel Ben Carufel is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego, California
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,318
Send a message via AIM to Ben Carufel
Mein Auto: BMW Motorcycles
Interesting. Program manager. I should have guessed .

Regarding your ceramic vs. semi-metallic pads question, here are a few useful links:

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/....jsp?techid=88

The following thread will keep you busy for hours:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168098
__________________
Ben
2000 BMW 528iT - 1989 BMW 325i S50 - 2007 BMW R1200S - 2002 BMW R1150GS ADV - 1972 BMW R60/5
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-03-2008, 11:04 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Ceramic wins over semi-metallic on all counts!

Quote:
ceramic vs. semi-metallic pads
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/....jsp?techid=88
Interesting! Shocking really. According to that article, what people said on these forums was all wrong.

SEMI-METALLIC: "OE" (original equipment)
CERAMIC: After market
REALITY-CHECK: TRUE, the Jurid 187s & Textar T4071 OEMs have steel strands to provide strength and conduct heat away from rotors but also generate noise and are abrasive enough to increase rotor wear, according to the quoted article.

SEMI-METALLIC: Very slightly cheaper (but only by a couple of dollars)
CERAMIC: Almost the same price (at least at Europarts & Pelican Parts)
REALITY-CHECK: TRUE, based on my price survey today at a half-dozen recommended BMW parts suppliers.

SEMI-METALLIC: Not as fade resistant (but then again, I don't race)
CERAMIC: Fade resistant so good for frequent high speed braking)
REALITY-CHECK: TRUE, the ceramic pads' copper strands conduct heat away from the rotors even better than the steel strands of the semi-metallic pads, according to the quoted article.

SEMI-METALLIC: Softer so longer-lasting and better on the rotors
CERAMIC: Harder (I'm guessing) so may "chew" up rotors (I read that)
REALITY-CHECK: FALSE. Surprisingly, ceramic pads wear less than semi-metallic pads on both the pads and rotors according to the quoted article.

SEMI-METALLIC: Dusty (I read that somewhere)
CERAMIC: Less dusty (but what has that got to do with braking?)
REALITY-CHECK: TRUE. The ceramic pads generate less dust than semi-metallic pads, according to the quoted article. In fact, the article goes on to state the ingredients in ceramic compounds produce a lighter colored dust that is much less noticeable and less likely to stick to the wheels. Consequently, wheels and tires maintain a cleaner appearance longer, says the article.

SEMI-METALLIC: Quieter (I'm guessing based on what EuroParts said)
CERAMIC: Noisier (again, what has that got to do with braking?)
REALITY-CHECK: FALSE. Surprisingly, ceramic compounds provide much quieter braking because the ceramic compound helps dampen noise by generating a frequency beyond the human hearing range, according to the quoted article.

Wow. I never would have thought that, for the same price, the ceramics would win on almost all counts! I wonder why semi-metallic is even sold anymore?
About the only place ceramics lost out was on "heavy loads" as witnessed by this quote in http://www.aa1car.com/library/ceramic.htm which said:
"Ceramic pads are NOT recommended to replace semi-metallic pads, especially on larger, heavier vehicles. On trucks and large SUVs, semi-metallic linings are typically needed to handle higher loads and braking temperatures."

Oh oh. After all that. It then says not to use Ceramics in BMW cars as semi-metallic was OEM! Sigh.

Can't we get the same answer twice, even out of a single article?

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ceramic.htm
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/ic10422.htm
http://www.aa1car.com/library/brakefix.htm

Last edited by bluebee; 03-03-2008 at 11:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-04-2008, 04:50 PM
oconnmic@hotmai oconnmic@hotmai is offline
Registered User
Location: North Carolin
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 13
Mein Auto: 528i 1997
Interesting Thread Bluebee

Bluebee, I have to admire your tenacity and attention to detail. The only thing missing is a PERT chart.

I'd also like some input from those following this thread. Do ceramic, metallic or semi-metallic pads wear out rotors faster than organic? Will cheap pads just wear out faster or do they present safety issues such as overheating and warping rotors or some type of catastrophic failure?

For my 528i, the BMW dealer quoted me $130 for the front pads. They said they are organic pads, dirty but work well.

AutoZone has Duralast, semi-metallic for $24. How can this be? The price makes me suspicious that they would not be safe or last more than 10,000 miles. But they do have a lifetime warranty.

Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:26 PM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,339
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
.........BTW, I'm a program manager. I analyze and organize projects much more complicated than a brake job for a living. Almost all of them go wrong in some way or another as we're always working things that have never before been done. In the post mortems, we find, in general, the mistakes were simple to predict, if only we knew enough ahead of time what simple things to look for......
My life experience and my current job showed me numerous times that people who are over analyzing, (meaning, people who can not realize when the solution already presented itself.), and continue to analyze beyond that point, will ALWAYS choose the wrong product and/or solution.

I would therefore predict this: 95%, You will choose the wrong rotors and pads.

I would also suspect that most times your project go wrong because simple things were ignored, is because you were over analyzing and therefore missed the obvious.

All in all, although this is getting somewhat boring, it still has some entertaining qualities to watch. Like watching a train wrack about to happen.

No disrespect to you. Just my observations.

mw

P.S. I am wondring about the research paper you might have about prepering a hard boiled egg?

.
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf

Last edited by MatWiz; 03-04-2008 at 09:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-04-2008, 10:31 PM
la528it's Avatar
la528it la528it is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: los angeles
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 480
Mein Auto: 2000 528it
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
P.S. I am wondring about the research paper you might have about prepering a hard boiled egg?

.
Easy, at x-mas my mom bought me a plastic egg that changed colors from the inside out, replicating how well cooked the eggs are. This thing works like magic: granted you must watch the plastic egg to know when to stop, but this has taken all the guessing out of it. If you want the heat absorption equations, you can call up stephen wolfram, or ask the original thread started


J/K good thread
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-04-2012, 03:22 PM
jah3 jah3 is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3
Mein Auto: 94 530i
check brake light

This means to check your brake light bulbs in the rear!!!!!
Not your brake pads!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-29-2011, 04:02 AM
fedup fedup is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: mass
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 149
Mein Auto: 2000 bmw 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Carufel View Post
OH. MY. GOD.

With all due respect -- are you an engineer with tons of time on your hands??

I have *never* seen anyone turn a brake job into an hours-long research experiment.

In all honesty, I am torn between wanting to respect you and wanting to ridicule you.

I'm going to go with respect, because you have the tenacity of no mortal I've ever encountered...

Lol
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:40 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
For the record, this E46 thread today was discussing where to lube a BMW brake:
- E46 (1999 - 2006) > BMW Brake Pad Installation Lubricant?

Where BMW TIS 34.11.00 describes the four wheel brake job:
- BMW_TIS_34-11-00-brake_linings.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-04-2008, 08:38 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Just got off the line with Mark at Zeckhausen and Kevin at Turner Motorsports who were the recommended east-coast suppliers who went home by the time I called them from California yesterday.

Basically, according to Mark at Zeckhausen (and a few articles I read), it seems the word "Ceramic" is merely a friction-material marketing term, not to be relied upon for anything concrete. For example, mud is ceramic (more accurately, clay), so if they dab that as 1 of the 40 components, they can legally market the pads as CERAMIC. So, Zeckhausen says the term is meaningless, preferring to sell them as "Axxis Deluxe" as the low-dust choice instead of "ceramic", which it says on the box. Likewise, Zeckhausen describes the "Axxis Ultimates" as the "ULT", describing them as higher bite, a bit more dusty, and less expensive by a huge margin of $40 per set.

Since the Axxis MetalMasters or Axxis Ultimates seem most recommended (Axxis Ultimates being $16.60 more per set at Turner Motorsports), I'm leaning toward them for now. Likewise, the argument for slotted vs drilled at Zeckhausen (where the pad swells up into the slot providing more bite) is interesting (the tradeoff here being $25 per rotor).

But, there's much more learning to be had so please correct any errors I make as I'll make plenty until I figure this out on my spreadsheet.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:01 AM
MMME30W's Avatar
MMME30W MMME30W is online now
Super Moderator
Location: On The Move
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,899
Mein Auto: 09 Freightliner


(I'm a Systems Engineer so I understand Program Managers. Bluebee! )
__________________
“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by,and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.”

- J.C. Watts Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-04-2008, 12:27 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,190
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 automatic
Quote:
Thanks for the popcorn!

The system engineer has the "big picture" while the program manager has the "deadline responsibility"; neither can, in and of themselves, get the job done alone (much like what happens here in this bimmerfest site where the "team" pitches in on each task).

Part of pitching in is collecting, in one spot, the necessary details to perform a decent brake job (which is what I'm attempting to accomplish in this thread).

To that end, one set of specs I couldn't find in *any* single location were the range of recommended torque settings for the specific bolts involved in a typical brake job (replacing pads, rotors, sensors, & bleeding).

Since I manage missing pieces for a living, I may as post my spreadsheet here as a bimmerfest exclusive!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	specs.gif
Views:	8573
Size:	9.2 KB
ID:	137876  

Last edited by bluebee; 03-04-2008 at 12:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms