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E36 M3 (1995-1999)

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  #1  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:51 AM
filamqc filamqc is offline
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e36 M3's becoming collectible classics?

Okay, we all know that e30 M3's are desirable due to their age and rarity (here in the US), but a friend of mine who's thinking of buying himself an e36 M3 asked me the other day what my opinion is regarding the collectible value of an e36 M3?

I simply told him that as long as the M3 is in great shape then there is no question its value would eventually go higher as it ages through the years... I added it also depends if the car was all stock and preserved, or modified in good taste - it can still hold its value as long as its in an excellent maintained condition.

I feel that e36 M3 prices have pretty much bottomed out for the most part. Most e36 M3's I see for sale priced below 8k are either very high mileage cars or require lots of reconditioning or restoration to make it a viable example (think project). While most e36 M3's priced over 12k are fine very clean showrooom examples, or low mileages, or may have tons of quality performance mods that many admire.

Is it worthwhile to collect (and enjoy) an e36 M3? After all, most of them range from 10-13 years old by now... And do you think the values and desirability will eventually be up to par with the e30 M3's? As for me, I wouldn't bet AGAINST it since e36 M3's are becoming timeless classics nowadays.

So what is your opinion? Feel free to share your thoughts....
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2008, 09:34 AM
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Zip, zero, nada, zilch, nothing....the E36 M3 will continue to depreciate to nothing. There is nothing particularly special about them. They had a lot of HP for 1995, but now 240hp is ho-hum that you can get in an Accord. Sure you will see the low mileage example getting a nice sum of money down the road, but tht will be the exception rather than the rule. They sold a lot of them (like over 40k over the model run) vs 5k E30 M3s.

E36 M3 will not be a classic car.

I had to give away my 100k mile 95 M3 a few years ago...that was the market then. E30 M3s are already higher priced than E30s and it will stay that way forever IMO.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:39 PM
BinhM3 BinhM3 is offline
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97-98 M3's may have a higher chance of being a classic car not many were made.
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:01 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
Zip, zero, nada, zilch, nothing....the E36 M3 will continue to depreciate to nothing. There is nothing particularly special about them. They had a lot of HP for 1995, but now 240hp is ho-hum that you can get in an Accord. Sure you will see the low mileage example getting a nice sum of money down the road, but tht will be the exception rather than the rule. They sold a lot of them (like over 40k over the model run) vs 5k E30 M3s.

E36 M3 will not be a classic car.

I had to give away my 100k mile 95 M3 a few years ago...that was the market then. E30 M3s are already higher priced than E30s and it will stay that way forever IMO.
+1

I've had my share of irrational automotive relationships and stupid automotive decisions, but the older I get the more I realize that old cars aren't classic, they're just used. And as much as I'd like to think that the styling is iconic, the engineering is timeless and the drive is transcendent, there's nothing any car can do to make me younger, more attractive or better endowed. The notable exception is a certain Mazda Miata, which will always transform me into a virile 19-year-old Adonis upon ignition.

Sometimes I wonder why people don't collect old refrigerators. Or air conditioners. Are those durable goods any less classic? In the past few years I've had a few nice cars which I've fantasized I would keep forever, and each one has given way to the new, each one better than the last, and each one treated less like a collectible and more like the joyful appliance it is.

I'll enjoy mine while I have it, and leave the preservation work to the Louvre.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2008, 01:37 AM
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e36m34life e36m34life is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
Zip, zero, nada, zilch, nothing....the E36 M3 will continue to depreciate to nothing. There is nothing particularly special about them. They had a lot of HP for 1995, but now 240hp is ho-hum that you can get in an Accord. Sure you will see the low mileage example getting a nice sum of money down the road, but tht will be the exception rather than the rule. They sold a lot of them (like over 40k over the model run) vs 5k E30 M3s.

E36 M3 will not be a classic car.

I had to give away my 100k mile 95 M3 a few years ago...that was the market then. E30 M3s are already higher priced than E30s and it will stay that way forever IMO.
Alright, I will point some things out purely based on what you said, which I think is complete nonesense.

1. If 240hp is ho-hum, what makes the E30 M3 special, with alot less then the 240 hp?

2. Even with the fact that there are ALOT more E36 M3's around, THERE IS A REASON why about 35K more E36 M3's sold then E30 M3's, I dont know how accurate those numbers are, but im saying this based on the stats you said.

And more importantly, since when is a car deemed a classic purely on its horsepower? Sorry bud, not the case. Is a Delorean a high horsepower fire breathing monster, I dont think so! Yet I bet more people will recognize a Delorean then you would ever DREAM of your E30. And thats just one example.

Unfortunately, ONLY ONLY ONLY because of the ridiculous amount of E36 M3's sold, I dont think they will be as desirable as an E30 M3, but thats it, ONLY becuase theres so much of them. In no way are they less car, or less anything then another ///M car, infact I can afford to buy an E46 M3 right now, I dont want to, I CHOOSE to drive an E36 M3, because its a drivers car, not a heavy pig with a third of its weight in electronics.

Speaking about E46 M3's, whats your concensus on that? Becuase I have seen some in the low 20's now, infact there was one in my area for exactly $21K, low mileage E36 M3's are still selling for $15K++ easy.

Anyways, to sum things up, E36 M3 is already a classic in my book, and frankly, I think its safe to say almost any ///M car will be a classic

(Flame on! )
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2008, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
Alright, I will point some things out purely based on what you said, which I think is complete nonesense.

1. If 240hp is ho-hum, what makes the E30 M3 special, with alot less then the 240 hp?
If you have to ask.... Obviously you have not driven one. If you think an E36 M3 is a driver's car, the E30 M3 is all that and a lot more. Just like on the E36 M3 where 240 hp was a lot for the time, 192 hp on the E30 M3 in the mid to late 80s was a lot of hp for a street car.

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Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
2. Even with the fact that there are ALOT more E36 M3's around, THERE IS A REASON why about 35K more E36 M3's sold then E30 M3's, I dont know how accurate those numbers are, but im saying this based on the stats you said.

And more importantly, since when is a car deemed a classic purely on its horsepower? Sorry bud, not the case. Is a Delorean a high horsepower fire breathing monster, I dont think so! Yet I bet more people will recognize a Delorean then you would ever DREAM of your E30. And thats just one example.
Ok...the Derlorean was in one of the most popular movies of all time....that helps with recognition. But how much has that helped their value? Not much, a Delorean is at most a $20k car.

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Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
Unfortunately, ONLY ONLY ONLY because of the ridiculous amount of E36 M3's sold, I dont think they will be as desirable as an E30 M3, but thats it, ONLY becuase theres so much of them. In no way are they less car, or less anything then another ///M car, infact I can afford to buy an E46 M3 right now, I dont want to, I CHOOSE to drive an E36 M3, because its a drivers car, not a heavy pig with a third of its weight in electronics.
The US version of the E36 M3 IS seen as a bastard child of M cars. Not much more I can pon that subject.

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Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
Speaking about E46 M3's, whats your concensus on that? Becuase I have seen some in the low 20's now, infact there was one in my area for exactly $21K, low mileage E36 M3's are still selling for $15K++ easy.
My opinion on E46 M3s? They will always be worth more than an E36 M3 and eventually the best examples will be worth less than the best E30 M3 examples. They are a good GT car, but not the best track car due to weight. 20k for an E46 or 15k for an E36....means the E46 is worth 1/3 more than the E36.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
Anyways, to sum things up, E36 M3 is already a classic in my book, and frankly, I think its safe to say almost any ///M car will be a classic

(Flame on! )
The more people that have your opinion, the more it will raise the value of the model. I don't think enough people share your opinion. I had an E36 and loved it, but I have no desire to own another one.
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
If you have to ask.... Obviously you have not driven one. If you think an E36 M3 is a driver's car, the E30 M3 is all that and a lot more. Just like on the E36 M3 where 240 hp was a lot for the time, 192 hp on the E30 M3 in the mid to late 80s was a lot of hp for a street car.
I have driven one, and no doubt it is a drivers car, almost too much of a drivers car. Thats why I love the E36 M3 so much, its the perfect mixture of the E30 M3 and E46 M3, the E46 M3 being way to over rendered, and the E30 M3 being under-rendered, if that makes any sense. To me, the E36 M3 has just the right touch of refinement, and rawness, not too much of either.

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Ok...the Derlorean was in one of the most popular movies of all time....that helps with recognition. But how much has that helped their value? Not much, a Delorean is at most a $20k car.
Doesn't matter of the movie, a classic is a classic, its that simple, thats what this thread is about right, and the car was brought up just to point out to you a car doesn't need ridiculous power to be a classic, and based on the post when you said the E36 M3 is under powered, I wanted to show you thats not always he case, and often times isn't.


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The US version of the E36 M3 IS seen as a bastard child of M cars. Not much more I can pon that subject.
True, true..............although that view is seen only through the most strickest of enthusiasts eyes. Any true BMW lover knows the E36 M3 is a great ///M car, regardless of the fact it didn't recieve the almighty B32.

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Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
My opinion on E46 M3s? They will always be worth more than an E36 M3 and eventually the best examples will be worth less than the best E30 M3 examples. They are a good GT car, but not the best track car due to weight. 20k for an E46 or 15k for an E36....means the E46 is worth 1/3 more than the E36.
Of course they will be, I sure would hope they would being they value wise they cost alot more to manufacture, with all its electronics, SMG, brakes, etc.etc.

Oh, and 15K is for an average to clean E36 M3, for a sub 70K miles pristine E36 M3, your looking at more like 17K-19, look around on craigslist and autotrader if you dont believe me.

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The more people that have your opinion, the more it will raise the value of the model. I don't think enough people share your opinion. I had an E36 and loved it, but I have no desire to own another one.
Heres the deal with owning an E36 M3, its all about finding the right one. My first E36 M3 was a 98 sedan, I hated the car with a passion, it wasn't up to par on maintanence, and all around it had its little quirks and problems due to a really crappy previous owner. After that car, I was really considering giving up on BMW's altogether. I gave it another shot and today I have a 99 Estoril coupe, I absolutely love it and plan on never selling it, and possibly passing it on to my son. I love this car to death, after owning this car, I can totally see how it can (and I think will be) a classic in the future.

I know I took the thread a little off topic, but I guess I felt the need to thoroughly express what I think.

We'll see in the future, who knows
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
Doesn't matter of the movie, a classic is a classic, its that simple, thats what this thread is about right, and the car was brought up just to point out to you a car doesn't need ridiculous power to be a classic, and based on the post when you said the E36 M3 is under powered, I wanted to show you thats not always he case, and often times isn't.
Never heard somebody refer to a Delorean as a classic....it is usually the butt of a joke.
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Old 04-01-2008, 05:32 PM
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Bruce,

No offense intended, but I just wanted to comment on a couple of points you mentioned...

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Just like on the E36 M3 where 240 hp was a lot for the time, 192 hp on the E30 M3 in the mid to late 80s was a lot of hp for a street car.
He was replying to your comment that 240hp on the e36m3 was "ho-hum that you can get on a modern day accord". If 240hp doesn't make the e36m3 special anymore, what does the 190 or so hp make the e30m3 nowadays?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce

The US version of the E36 M3 IS seen as a bastard child of M cars. Not much more I can pon that subject.
Regardless of its engine, the US e36m3 fit nicely between the e30m3 and e46m3 performance-wise. Had the US e36m3 come here with the euro engine, the e46m3 might have dissapointed a lot of their owners. One nice thing about the US motor is that e36 owners don't have as high of maintenance costs (ie valve adjustments) as other M cars do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
My opinion on E46 M3s? They will always be worth more than an E36 M3 and eventually the best examples will be worth less than the best E30 M3 examples. They are a good GT car, but not the best track car due to weight. 20k for an E46 or 15k for an E36....means the E46 is worth 1/3 more than the E36.
Regardless of weight, feel, etc, an e46m3 will mop the floor with an e30m3 at the race track. There simply is no comparison. A base e90 328i will do the same, despite whatever anyone says about its weight, feel, etc. If your goal is to win races at the track, the newer model the M is, the better. If your goal is just to have fun, then that's different. BTW, here's a video of interest:



Listen to the comments towards the end of the clip. A new Mitsubitshi Colt with 150hp was faster than the e30m3 around the race track, and the "e30m3 was barely faster than a Ford Transit van". This goes to show how much technology has improved over the years. The same TANGIBLE reasons that don't make an e36M3 special anymore applied to the e30M3 10 years ago, and will apply to the 46M3 in another 10yrs too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
The more people that have your opinion, the more it will raise the value of the model. I don't think enough people share your opinion. I had an E36 and loved it, but I have no desire to own another one.
Tangible/measurable reasons aside, this is what makes the e30m3 special to their owners. It's the intangibles like the first m3 ever made, it's low production numbers, it's feel and responsiveness, the fact that it was made for the street so that they could continue racing it, etc. An e36m3 does fit nicely between the e30 and e46 in performance, has enough safety and creature comforts even by today's standards, and still retain some of the great feel of the e30, and that's why some of their owners like them. The main thing going against it in terms of retaining value (and eventually the e46, e9x, etc) is total production numbers.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cal View Post
He was replying to your comment that 240hp on the e36m3 was "ho-hum that you can get on a modern day accord". If 240hp doesn't make the e36m3 special anymore, what does the 190 or so hp make the e30m3 nowadays?
The E36 M3 weighed in at nearly 3200 pounds. The E30 M3 weighs in around 2800. Weight matters. Also...in a word...history. The E30 M3 is the winnest touring car of all time. Over 1500 worldwide wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Regardless of its engine, the US e36m3 fit nicely between the e30m3 and e46m3 performance-wise. Had the US e36m3 come here with the euro engine, the e46m3 might have dissapointed a lot of their owners. One nice thing about the US motor is that e36 owners don't have as high of maintenance costs (ie valve adjustments) as other M cars do.
I won't disgree with you there except that valve adjustments are really not that bad. They sound mroe complicated than they really are. I had to do them on my E30 M3 and I have to do them on my Euro 3.2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Regardless of weight, feel, etc, an e46m3 will mop the floor with an e30m3 at the race track. There simply is no comparison. A base e90 328i will do the same, despite whatever anyone says about its weight, feel, etc. If your goal is to win races at the track, the newer model the M is, the better. If your goal is just to have fun, then that's different. BTW, here's a video of interest:
"mop the floor" is such a strong statement. The E30 M3 shines on short, technical tracks with no long straights. Equal cars on the right track and the E30 M3 can hang with or pass the E46 M3. There are many built S14s with 300 hp than can leave an E46 M3 in the dust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Tangible/measurable reasons aside, this is what makes the e30m3 special to their owners. It's the intangibles like the first m3 ever made, it's low production numbers, it's feel and responsiveness, the fact that it was made for the street so that they could continue racing it, etc. An e36m3 does fit nicely between the e30 and e46 in performance, has enough safety and creature comforts even by today's standards, and still retain some of the great feel of the e30, and that's why some of their owners like them. The main thing going against it in terms of retaining value (and eventually the e46, e9x, etc) is total production numbers.
All valid points....but the question was "will the E36 M3 be considered a classic"....I stand by my answer. Doesn't mean I don't think the E36 M3 is a great car (I had one for 3 years).
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:01 PM
filamqc filamqc is offline
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I know there will be mixed feelings but you cannot completely rule out that e36 M3's will NEVER be a classic car. An M will always be an M, so you can't say that there is nothing particularly special about them. An e36 M will always be worth more than a non-M e36 (apples for apples). As far as HP, of course it's obvious its power output is dependent on its era - just like all classic cars nowadays. It doesn't take rarity to become a classic car. Many collectors preach this. I think it has a good potential to become a classic euro car... It just takes time. That's my .02 cents!
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:16 PM
MrHeeltoe MrHeeltoe is offline
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Coming from a car that many cult-like enthusiasts call a "classic" I can say that the term is widely overused.

We need another 30-40 years before these cars really are significant. And even then they'd need less hand 30K on them to be "gems."
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:26 AM
Kreizy31 Kreizy31 is offline
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They'll definitely be desirable in the next 10-20 years. But not for any ridiculous sums of money. There were too many of them made for them to be really "rare"

That's why I'm just driving the piss out of mine and enjoying ever minute of it.
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:25 PM
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I don't think they will become collectible but they will definitely not depreciate to nothing. Also, there were about 26,000 North American e36 M3s produced versus 5,300 e30 M3s, so they did make 5 times as many. But I don't think that has a huge affect on the value of the cars down the road.

I think they are a relative performance bargain right now and will be scooped up by people who really enjoy/enjoyed them. That is what makes them worth something, if people want them. Think how many kids grew up wanting e36 M3s but won't be able to afford them until later in life. Think how many people bought them but will want one back in the future.

Like another poster said, an M is an M. That will always mean something and will always make the car "special".

Finally, think how many have been crashed, wrecked, stolen, chopped, and otherwise totalled? How many could be left?
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:55 AM
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i dont have an E36 but i do own 2 E30s. i thought you guys would like to see this? such a beautiful car.


http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/car/625352706.html
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:11 PM
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I have owned all three generations of M3 and I loved them all. I owned both the E36 and the E30 at the same time during 1996. I drove/raced around with my brother in those two cars and the E36 was always a tad faster. But the E30 would make me feel better... you are right... the intangibles... that's why I end up selling the E36 back then and keeping the E30.

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Old 04-01-2008, 11:38 PM
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There are lots of great points here, I think this was a great discussion.

Upon further thinking about the initial questions of wether an E36 M3 will ever be a classic, I will have to also say no, but..........ONLY because of the large production, and the ridiculous amount of them that were sold. By no means are they any less of an ///M car, or "ho-hum" performance, the fact is that there were simply too much of them sold.

Oh, and FYI about the "ho-hum" performance of the E36 M3, what your calling dated 240hp is actually faster stock for stock with G35's, any generation Accord besides the new ones (which they could be faster then those too, but I dont know becuase I haven't seen or heard of anyone racing those yet), and even some 350z's which are supposed to be modern day sports cars with modern day horsepower (besides the Accords). Or are you calling there near 300hp dated too? And dont start talking about weight, were talking stock for stock, weight shouldn't be in the question with my specific comparison.

And how about the E36 M3's on bimmerforums who are running 13.2 with weight reduction and bolt ons, from a car that was never meant to be a straight line performer in the first place. Dont let the 240hp number fool you, the S50/S52 have alot more potential then you think!

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Old 04-03-2008, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
Upon further thinking about the initial questions of wether an E36 M3 will ever be a classic, I will have to also say no, but..........ONLY because of the large production, and the ridiculous amount of them that were sold. By no means are they any less of an ///M car, or "ho-hum" performance, the fact is that there were simply too much of them sold.
But it isn't some huge amount of production we are talking about, in total for the NA market there were 5,600 E30s and 26,000 E36. However, E30s were coupe only whereas E36 was produced in coupe, convertible, sedan forms.

Furthermore, keep in mind the rate at which e36 M3s are being demolished by teenagers. Pretty soon there will be hardly any left.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2008, 11:49 PM
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e36m34life e36m34life is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrFa View Post
But it isn't some huge amount of production we are talking about, in total for the NA market there were 5,600 E30s and 26,000 E36. However, E30s were coupe only whereas E36 was produced in coupe, convertible, sedan forms.

Furthermore, keep in mind the rate at which e36 M3s are being demolished by teenagers. Pretty soon there will be hardly any left.

Very true, as they get more and more affordable, more teens are buying them and wrecking them becuase they cant handle a high powered RWD car

Good point

Anyways, only time will tell, who knows
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:13 PM
Scotty328 Scotty328 is offline
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Even here in Europe where the E36 M3's came with the PROPER engine They're not worth that much. Prices are still dropping here, albeit slowly. The E30 M3's over here are climbing in value.

A lot of the E36 M3's here are getting turned into track cars and as they're so affordable a lot of them get messed around with which is a shame.

I suppose a proper S50B30 or S50B32 euro M3 in the states would be worth a fair bit more over it's lesser US cousin?
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:08 PM
Eotnak Eotnak is offline
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Who ever thought that a 66 Nova would fetch $35k? This was a the equivalent of a Cavalier...the SS being the Cobalt

It's all about supply and demand. Supply is high, yes, but that is changing as already discussed. Just like the Nova, people are snatching them up on the cheap and making track cars. Kids are wrecking them, etc. The other e36's will find their way to the crusher.

Demand was higher but will rise again. The only question is will it surpass, meet, or fall short of the supply? Time will tell. The fact remains that it is unique and will hold a special place in the hearts of many. If demand always stays below the supply, then they'll disappear. If demand meets supply...collectible. If demand surpasses supply, a desireable "classic"

Will it bring e30 numbers? Of course not. Will it disappear? I doubt it. Should you hold on to yours until it's value comes back again? Don't be silly. My father had millions upon millions of dollars in cars that he bought and sold sometimes for less than $100...but it took 30-40 years for the values to pass inflation. He kept one that's been taking up space in the garage for the past 30 years. That just doesn't make sense unless it's sentimental

Did this car set itself apart from the crowd when it was new? If so, then it probably will when it's old.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:57 AM
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E36 M3 that is/will be a classic? Easy, LTW.
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2008, 04:49 PM
e30e e30e is offline
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Is the car going to ever pull 60s-70's muscle car numbers NO

But in 1995 the m3 had 240 hp
1995 camaro had 275
1995 mustang had 215, cobra had 260
nissan 300z had between 280 and 300
supra had 320 hp
corvette had 320ish
rx-7 had 255 hp

So in terms of horsepower which many people have used it against it, yes it was lower but it also weight also a little lower. Its performance numbers were on par with those cars too. M3 survived out those cars because of a loyal fan base willing to pay 40k for super 3 series while the asian imports didnt not have a loyal fan base to pay 30-40k for those cars. Based on pricing now aside from supra's, M3's have held there value pretty well too. M3 we got was a great compromise of bmw's price and performance, at the time e34 m5's were not selling because of price and people bought suv's due to cheap gas. I think m3's kept stock with low miles will be collector items possibly in 20 years but nothing compared to e30 m3's and e34 m5's. Collecting these car's is going to be someone with already a lot money to store and protect these cars, not some joe like me who barely can afford fix the vanos when it went out.
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