Learning from others mistakes

Can we get a clip of the week going? Possibly one where someone was on the track/auto-x and did something very right, or wrong in a difficult situation and either saved the car or crashed. That way we can discuss it and learn from it. There is a clip right now on the off-topic board that shows someone crashing their E36. I thought maybe we could start with it.

Maybe we can make it a sticky, and each week change it to a different video.

Originally Posted by PunchIt

Can we get a clip of the week going? Possibly one where someone was on the track/auto-x and did something very right, or wrong in a difficult situation and either saved the car or crashed. That way we can discuss it and learn from it. There is a clip right now on the off-topic board that shows someone crashing their E36. I thought maybe we could start with it.

Maybe we can make it a sticky, and each week change it to a different video.

I got lots of clips... where do I post 'em???

Originally Posted by sergiok

I got lots of clips... where do I post 'em???

Want to post one?

Originally Posted by PunchIt

Want to post one?

Have you seen the famous Subaru rollover at Lime Rock video clip?

Looked like he ran onto the rumble strips, which must be slick in rainy conditions. I think he lost traction in his two right wheels on the wet slippery strip while his two left wheels still had traction on the track. It looked like the car was okay then all of a sudden pulled very hard to the right.

Originally Posted by sergiok

Have you seen the famous Subaru rollover at Lime Rock video clip?

No, can you post the video or a link?

I have a number of track videos with spins and/or crashes. If someone can host them, I'll make them available.

Originally Posted by Galun

No, can you post the video or a link?

Here's another one... what did this guy do wrong?

BTW, that clip in the OT forum doesn't show enough of the previous turns.

Shifting at the apex?!?!? Crazy IMO.

I only see one hand on the steering wheel, bad hand positioning.


I went ahead and downloaded both the 28mb and the 49mb vid clip of him going around the track. The 28mb has the crash on it.

Anyway, you can easily tell from the larger vid clip that the conditions are wet. He was breaking the rear end loose quite a bit.

I would say post one here, and maybe one of the Moderators can make it a sticky for a while.

Moderators, is that possible?

Originally Posted by PunchIt

I would say post one here, and maybe one of the Moderators can make it a sticky for a while.

Moderators, is that possible?

I like the idea...perhaps we can keep this thread going with people posting videos of mistakes/crashes and/or narrative of mistakes they've made/learned from. What do you guys think? If there's some interest, I'll make this sticky.

Originally Posted by StahlGrauM3

I like the idea...perhaps we can keep this thread going with people posting videos of mistakes/crashes and/or narrative of mistakes they've made/learned from. What do you guys think? If there's some interest, I'll make this sticky.

Sound like a good idea to me.

If you look at the "after" images he has. The car doesn't seem to be in that bad a shape.
Well, at least not as bad as I would have thought.

http://nevr2qk.carlc.com/events/031101hst/AFTER/IMAGES/

Originally Posted by sergiok

BTW, that clip in the OT forum doesn't show enough of the previous turns.

Shifting at the apex?!?!? Crazy IMO.

I only see one hand on the steering wheel, bad hand positioning.


I went ahead and downloaded both the 28mb and the 49mb vid clip of him going around the track. The 28mb has the crash on it.

Anyway, you can easily tell from the larger vid clip that the conditions are wet. He was breaking the rear end loose quite a bit.

Yup! Watched the larger file. One hand on the wheel, using slicks AFAI can tell from the photos.

edit: rewatched the larger file and now think it is a 5 spd. But that doesn't change my opinion of having two hands on the wheel or the use of his racing slicks in the rain vs. his street tires.

Don't mean to fault the instructor, and don't want to assume anything, but this guy seemed like he was relatively new to this. I would think the instructor should be talking a lot more. If not telling him which line to take (wet vs. dry) but at least tell him to put both F'ing hands on the wheel. It almost looks as if he is out for a Sunday drive.

but that is just my $.02, and that doesn't mean to much.

Originally Posted by PunchIt

It almost looks as if he is out for a Sunday drive

My thoughts exactly.

The learn from others mistakes thread is a great idea!

I can't believe that he repeatedly lets loose of the wheel and lets it spin back to recenter it, has to correct for it, and the instuctor never says a thing about it!

Originally Posted by binaryfarms

The learn from others mistakes thread is a great idea!

I can't believe that he repeatedly lets loose of the wheel and lets it spin back to recenter it, has to correct for it, and the instuctor never says a thing about it!

Yeah, talk about too much steering input!

Originally Posted by PunchIt

Yup! Watched the larger file. One hand on the wheel, using slicks AFAI can tell from the photos.

edit: rewatched the larger file and now think it is a 5 spd. But that doesn't change my opinion of having two hands on the wheel or the use of his racing slicks in the rain vs. his street tires.

Don't mean to fault the instructor, and don't want to assume anything, but this guy seemed like he was relatively new to this. I would think the instructor should be talking a lot more. If not telling him which line to take (wet vs. dry) but at least tell him to put both F'ing hands on the wheel. It almost looks as if he is out for a Sunday drive.

but that is just my $.02, and that doesn't mean to much.

This happened to m3lieb over at bimmerforums.com. Here is his story...

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=146048

Originally Posted by Andy

This happened to m3lieb over at bimmerforums.com. Here is his story...

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=146048

Thanks Andy

Originally Posted by sergiok

BTW, that clip in the OT forum doesn't show enough of the previous turns.

Shifting at the apex?!?!? Crazy IMO.

I only see one hand on the steering wheel, bad hand positioning.


I went ahead and downloaded both the 28mb and the 49mb vid clip of him going around the track. The 28mb has the crash on it.

Anyway, you can easily tell from the larger vid clip that the conditions are wet. He was breaking the rear end loose quite a bit.

I think the real problem with this guy is one I spotted at the onset of the video. I immediately thought that when I get to the crash, it's going to be at the exit of a corner.

Why?

Because he's putting TONS of steering input in at the entrance of the corner. He's clearly trusting the back end of the car too much.

By throwing that much lock on in the corners, he was just asking for exit oversteer... the Nascar boys call it "pushy loose." What it means is that the front understeers a bit then bites right at the exit, causing oversteer.

To those who haven't experienced it before, or had it pointed out to them, it seems like the car is loose on exit, when the real problem is that the driver is inducing (or at least not recognizing) understeer which is *causing* the oversteer at exit.

Well, the main thing is that the folks in the car are ok.

It's easy to judge in hindsight, but the abundance of steering lock with no respect for the rear end is what struck me about that crash video.

Originally Posted by SergioK

I went ahead and downloaded both the 28mb and the 49mb vid clip of him going around the track. The 28mb has the crash on it.

I am having a lazy Sunday afternoon and I just watched the clips. The guy's driving was giving me a headache just watching it. I wanted to reach into the video and grab his hands and put them at 9 and 3 and make them stay there. WTF is up with that one hand bling bling driving?

Credit where due, he seems to have decent car control skills, certainly better than some of the A and B drivers who drive with DSC on "because I am so smooth and DSC doesn't kick in when I am smooth."

Originally Posted by Stuka

...drivers who drive with DSC on "because I am so smooth and DSC doesn't kick in when I am smooth."

Haha, I always tell myself that I am going to leave the DSC on for the first 2 laps when I go out on the track since I only do about 3 events a year, but I usually end up turning it off after the first turn of my second lap. At California speedway I had to turn it off after coming out of the pits up onto the oval. It was lighting up (and I was going 70 MPH) like a freakin christmas tree. The DSC in the E46 M3 is way way too intrusive.

Originally Posted by Strom

Haha, I always tell myself that I am going to leave the DSC on for the first 2 laps when I go out on the track since I only do about 3 events a year, but I usually end up turning it off after the first turn of my second lap. At California speedway I had to turn it off after coming out of the pits up onto the oval. It was lighting up (and I was going 70 MPH) like a freakin christmas tree. The DSC in the E46 M3 is way way too intrusive.

That's a straightaway! Oh... yeah... the M3 has about 150+ HP on me...

That "Calder Park" video gives me the screaming heebie jeebies on the one hand, but on the other.. sometimes I feel like that's exactly what's happening when I drive to the 7-11 here in town.

More to the point, this is indeed an educational thread.. and I just want notifications when new stuff is posted.