Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)

X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:28 AM
uboat uboat is offline
Registered User
Location: Orange County Calif.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34
Mein Auto: X3 & 330Cic
X3 Sunroof failure

My advice for X3 owners is DO NOT OPERATE THE SUNROOF. My 2007 was two months out of warranty when the sunroof ground to a locked-up failure. The vehicle was garaged its entire life in So. Calif. and the sunroof was seldomly used. On a nice sunny September day I pushed the button to fully open the sunroof and it made a grinding noise and locked-up. I took it in to the dealer who replaced the entire cassette mechanism for around $3,300 (net of a 15% discount). I wrote a letter to BMW of N.A. and was told there would be no adjustment from them.

Based on the limited use of my sunroof, I can only conclude they look good, but don't hold up very well. I figure my sunroof cost me about $165 each time I used it. Bottom line DO NOT OPERATE THE SUNROOF.

Last edited by uboat; 12-07-2011 at 11:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:07 AM
timfitz63's Avatar
timfitz63 timfitz63 is offline
MT = Doppler Shifting
Location: Lorena & San Antonio, TX
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 869
Mein Auto: 2007 X3 (MT)
Sorry to hear this -- especially since the frequency of this problem seems to be creeping forward as each model year ages, and I also own a 2007... I'm sure I would be equally unhappy as you are if this happened to me, since I also enjoy opening the panorama roof on my X3 when the weather is conducive.

But I am curious if there's a correlation between the failure of the roof mechanism and the amount of 'upkeep maintenance' that owners perform. My question is not an indictment of you; but how often do folks inspect the roof mechanism for debris and possible wear, and lubricate it? The only seemingly-recommended lubricant that I can find for this application is a MINI part number (83 22 0 397 761, "Kluberplex adhesive grease") -- which I'm willing to bet is basically lithium grease; I don't know what the corresponding BMW part number is, but I'll also bet it comes in the same can...

Anyway, I'm postulating that these roof mechanisms may be failing due to (and please pardon the term) neglect by owners. In fairness to owners, BMW doesn't provide any guidance about how frequently these complicated roof mechanisms need periodic 'upkeep maintenance' (i.e., inspection and lubrication), or even where the lubrication points actually are. In fact, when I inquired about whether BMW would lubricate the roof mechanism as part of their Free Maintenance Plan, I was essentially told "no," although I managed to get them to do mine this past July when I complained about a squeak associated with roof operation.

So I'm curious: does anyone take it upon themselves to lubricate these roof mechanisms, and if so, have you experienced any problems/failures...?
__________________

X3 w/6-speed & Sport Package:
A sports sedan disguised as an SUV...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:34 AM
swapsafari swapsafari is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 126
Mein Auto: 07 BMW X3 3.0si Black
Sorry to hear about the sunroof. Reading all the bad things about its mechanism on the forum, every time I open it I am afraid as if I am committing a crime or something. Who knows when it would start to act up. I have a 2007 X3 too so I hear you very well. BTW, I have read in some posts about people doing regular maintenance on their roof like greasing components and cleaning the gutter, etc. I haven't done it on my car yet from the time I have had it (which is few months) and don't know if the previous owner has done it. Do we have any DIY for that process here on the forum? I mean, is it like a time consuming process even to maintain it? Anything leads on it would be very helpful.

Coz if that's the case, I am taking your advice of not opening it again. I would rather buy a old convertible for that price (3.5K) and take it out as and when I feel like brining some sun into my car.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-09-2011, 12:20 PM
timfitz63's Avatar
timfitz63 timfitz63 is offline
MT = Doppler Shifting
Location: Lorena & San Antonio, TX
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 869
Mein Auto: 2007 X3 (MT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by swapsafari View Post
... I have read in some posts about people doing regular maintenance on their roof like greasing components and cleaning the gutter, etc. I haven't done it on my car yet from the time I have had it (which is few months) and don't know if the previous owner has done it. Do we have any DIY for that process here on the forum? I mean, is it like a time consuming process even to maintain it? Anything leads on it would be very helpful...
I've not seen a DIY for lubrication, and I'd like to get a good bead on this as well. In fact, I've posed the question on the forum before, and was essentially instructed to "slather lithium grease all over everything and call it good..." While that may work, it's a waste of material (lubricant); and being somewhat familiar with the German attitude toward such things, success may require specific application points. Perhaps someone can get their hands on the BMW procedure for lubricating the panorama roof? I know one exists for the MINI roof mechanism...

As a rule, I will clean (as necessary) the roof cassette gutters and drain hole openings every time I wash my X3. Doing so isn't particularly time-consuming, although you do need to budget the additional time to operate the roof to different positions (you can't actually get to all the necessary spots with the roof positioned in one spot), and will probably need a step stool or some other way to easily see and reach over top of the roofline (if you, like me, are not fond of using the seats or rocker panels to do such things). I don't get particularly involved with the cleaning process; just a clean, damp rag seems to work fine. I am, however, careful not to wipe away any exposed lubricant from the mechanism; mainly, I'm just aiming to get any obvious pieces of debris (dirt, dust, leaves, etc.) out of the roof mechanism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uboat View Post
I took the vehicle to the dealer for all the recommended maintenance. I never saw anything listed for the sunroof. As I mentioned in my post, the vehicle was garaged most of the day and every night. It was not exposed to extreme heat or cold. I inspected the failed unit at the dealer and the problem seems to be the use of cheap plastic parts. The mechanism seems prone to component failure because of the flimsy parts.
Well, that was part of my point: BMW doesn't seem to do anything -- include instruct owners -- with respect to the upkeep of this component. They give you other maintenance points (oil, tires, even cleaning the exterior), but nothing about this roof mechanism. And it clearly needs something.

I agree with that assessment as well: cheap plastic components. I'm willing to speculate that part of the issue is that these plastic roof parts do not tolerate intense sunlight (in particular, UV) very well; I wonder what the proportion of failures is in the southern parts of the U.S. compared to the northern parts and Canada...? But again, if the plastic is kept well-lubricated, the lubricant will act a bit like a sunscreen and keep the part protected. Well, at least, better protected...

I'm just speculating at this stage that the lubrication is not surviving well on the parts -- for whatever reason -- and plastic parts rubbing against other plastic parts is a recipe for failure...
__________________

X3 w/6-speed & Sport Package:
A sports sedan disguised as an SUV...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-09-2011, 12:00 PM
uboat uboat is offline
Registered User
Location: Orange County Calif.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34
Mein Auto: X3 & 330Cic
Quote:
Originally Posted by timfitz63 View Post
Sorry to hear this -- especially since the frequency of this problem seems to be creeping forward as each model year ages, and I also own a 2007... I'm sure I would be equally unhappy as you are if this happened to me, since I also enjoy opening the panorama roof on my X3 when the weather is conducive.

But I am curious if there's a correlation between the failure of the roof mechanism and the amount of 'upkeep maintenance' that owners perform. My question is not an indictment of you; but how often do folks inspect the roof mechanism for debris and possible wear, and lubricate it? The only seemingly-recommended lubricant that I can find for this application is a MINI part number (83 22 0 397 761, "Kluberplex adhesive grease") -- which I'm willing to bet is basically lithium grease; I don't know what the corresponding BMW part number is, but I'll also bet it comes in the same can...

Anyway, I'm postulating that these roof mechanisms may be failing due to (and please pardon the term) neglect by owners. In fairness to owners, BMW doesn't provide any guidance about how frequently these complicated roof mechanisms need periodic 'upkeep maintenance' (i.e., inspection and lubrication), or even where the lubrication points actually are. In fact, when I inquired about whether BMW would lubricate the roof mechanism as part of their Free Maintenance Plan, I was essentially told "no," although I managed to get them to do mine this past July when I complained about a squeak associated with roof operation.

So I'm curious: does anyone take it upon themselves to lubricate these roof mechanisms, and if so, have you experienced any problems/failures...?
I took the vehicle to the dealer for all the recommended maintenance. I never saw anything listed for the sunroof. As I mentioned in my post, the vehicle was garaged most of the day and every night. It was not exposed to extreme heat or cold. I inspected the failed unit at the dealer and the problem seems to be the use of cheap plastic parts. The mechanism seems prone to component failure because of the flimsy parts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-09-2011, 12:30 PM
bdunn bdunn is offline
Registered User
Location: Cincinnati
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 32
Mein Auto: 2005 X3 2.5i
Had to have mine replaced under CPO after I had it for about 2 months, so that's been about 3 years ago. Since then I will check it out every month or so right before I wash the car. I have found leaves, sticks and other small debris in the vacinity of the tracks that could very easily get into the plastic gears and cause issues. I typically pull the stuff out or vacuum it out. I will also spray the gear tracks and any other parts that look like they may need lubrication with a silicone based lubricant once or twice a year. I use that because it's non staining and has good water resistance. Don't know if that's the right stuff to use, but so far so good.
May want to consider that infreaquent use could also result in failure. Window seals can almost adhear to windows if not used used for long periods of time. The extra pressure caused by a stuck panel could result in additioanl stress on the mechanism. I wipe down the rubber seals with protectant a couple times a year to keep the rubber plyable and from drying out.
However BMW must have some concerns or why else would they include an allen wrench to manually close the roof with the tool kit, and instructions on how to do it manually in the owners manual?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-09-2011, 01:01 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 759
Mein Auto: 2007 X3 MT
My indie mechanic (who I stopped using for reasons unrelated to the sunroof) lubed it. When I asked what he was using, it turns out it was vaseline. That's fine with me if it works. I also use the sunroof regularly, based on the "use it or lose it" principle, and am careful that if I have to close it while driving I have the windows cracked open to avoid any unusual air pressure. I still haven't done any inspection (relied on the mechanic for that).

I have a 2007 too, sorry to hear about your exorbitant replacement cost, hoping to avoid that! (Knock wood!)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-09-2011, 02:46 PM
swapsafari swapsafari is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 126
Mein Auto: 07 BMW X3 3.0si Black
Thanks timfitz63. I can do what you have been doing for minimum if not anything more. I guess that'll atleast make me feel good that I did my part if at all anything goes bad in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-31-2013, 03:28 PM
Sunburned Sunburned is offline
Registered User
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8
Mein Auto: 2005 X3 3.0
Good point, bdunn, about the included hex wrench to close the sunroof vents manually.

I used the wrench on my 2005 X3 and was able to close the large, front sunroof. Does anyone know how to manually close the small rear vent? In six months of owning the vehicle, I have used the rear vent only once, yesterday. Since the failure to close occurred earlier today, I have inspected it for broken or loose material, wiped the tracks and surfaces clean, and lubricated the springs and gliding surfaces on each side on the rear sunroof vent.

I am looking forward to removing the lawn tarp from an otherwise clean vehicle I bought from my uncle six months ago with 62,000 miles. He maintained it well (though likely did not use the rear sunroof vent) since he bought it from a dealer certified with 15,000 on it.

Sunburned

Last edited by Sunburned; 03-31-2013 at 03:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-31-2013, 04:43 PM
sixspeedz's Avatar
sixspeedz sixspeedz is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 249
Mein Auto: 2004 X3 3.0i, 6 Speed MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunburned View Post
Good point, bdunn, about the included hex wrench to close the sunroof vents manually.

I used the wrench on my 2005 X3 and was able to close the large, front sunroof. Does anyone know how to manually close the small rear vent? In six months of owning the vehicle, I have used the rear vent only once, yesterday. Since the failure to close occurred earlier today, I have inspected it for broken or loose material, wiped the tracks and surfaces clean, and lubricated the springs and gliding surfaces on each side on the rear sunroof vent.

I am looking forward to removing the lawn tarp from an otherwise clean vehicle I bought from my uncle six months ago with 62,000 miles. He maintained it well (though likely did not use the rear sunroof vent) since he bought it from a dealer certified with 15,000 on it.

Sunburned
Where are you in NJ? My local indy shop will close the panel, do the mod to remove the tilt from the rear, but leave the front working... 1 hr of labor.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:04 AM
Sunburned Sunburned is offline
Registered User
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8
Mein Auto: 2005 X3 3.0
Thanks, Sixspeedz.

I am in Toms River, New Jersey, and of course willing to spend part or all of a day to resolve the rear vent issue at your Indy service location. Travel, in the meantime, is no issue for me. I still have my reliable 2002 Honda Odyssey to use until the fix is completed.

Appreciate your quick post. Let me know if you need more personal information from me.

Rob Furstoss
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-01-2013, 09:37 AM
sixspeedz's Avatar
sixspeedz sixspeedz is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 249
Mein Auto: 2004 X3 3.0i, 6 Speed MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunburned View Post
Thanks, Sixspeedz.

I am in Toms River, New Jersey, and of course willing to spend part or all of a day to resolve the rear vent issue at your Indy service location. Travel, in the meantime, is no issue for me. I still have my reliable 2002 Honda Odyssey to use until the fix is completed.

Appreciate your quick post. Let me know if you need more personal information from me.

Rob Furstoss
Give ma a bit and i'll post the info. They moved to a new bigger shop last week, and i want to make sure i have all the contact info right first..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-09-2011, 02:48 PM
ncord ncord is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: ontario canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 177
Mein Auto: 2006 X3
I have an 06 with the same problem.I checked with the dealer both in Canada & USA and they would not admit to any design problem.
My own indi.mechanic found the broken part and it was PLASTIC on metal...I am hoping to get the part when I return to Florida next month.It is the
front passenger side slide rail and costs approx.$250.
With all the complaints I have read about with these roofs,it really burns my ass the way BMW is handling it. I will let you know how it works out for me.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:01 PM
swapsafari swapsafari is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 126
Mein Auto: 07 BMW X3 3.0si Black
Sorry to sound dumb here but does indie/indi mechanic means "Independent Mechanic?"
That's another issue for me here living in small town that the closest BMW dealership is 4 hrs drive from my home so I will have to rely on a local mechanic here putting all my trust in him.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:23 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 759
Mein Auto: 2007 X3 MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by swapsafari View Post
Sorry to sound dumb here but does indie/indi mechanic means "Independent Mechanic?"
That's another issue for me here living in small town that the closest BMW dealership is 4 hrs drive from my home so I will have to rely on a local mechanic here putting all my trust in him.
Yep, indie = independent.

Here in the Bay Area, where BMW is the "California Ford", there are numerous independent garages, some with excellent reputations, that specialize in BMW. Good choice for a car out of warranty. In New Mexico from what you say I imagine you're going to find someone who's more of a generalist, so you'll want someone experienced, patient, and humble enough to ask questions rather than bull through things.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:30 PM
swapsafari swapsafari is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 126
Mein Auto: 07 BMW X3 3.0si Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
In New Mexico from what you say I imagine you're going to find someone who's more of a generalist, so you'll want someone experienced, patient, and humble enough to ask questions rather than bull through things.
You are right! The mechanics here are expert in repairing trucks than anything else. I can see a truck in every four cars or even more at times. But I have found a guy who has worked with a BMW dealership for 6 years in his career so hopefully I won't have have to take his BS. Will see how it goes.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:27 PM
timfitz63's Avatar
timfitz63 timfitz63 is offline
MT = Doppler Shifting
Location: Lorena & San Antonio, TX
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 869
Mein Auto: 2007 X3 (MT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdunn View Post
... May want to consider that infreaquent use could also result in failure. Window seals can almost adhear to windows if not used used for long periods of time. The extra pressure caused by a stuck panel could result in additioanl stress on the mechanism. I wipe down the rubber seals with protectant a couple times a year to keep the rubber plyable and from drying out...
That's a good point as well. When cleaning the cassette gutters/drains, I also wipe around the seals and the edges of the roof panels with the rag (which I rinse out as necessary, so I'm not just moving dirt around).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdunn View Post
... I will also spray the gear tracks and any other parts that look like they may need lubrication with a silicone based lubricant once or twice a year. I use that because it's non staining and has good water resistance. Don't know if that's the right stuff to use, but so far so good...
Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
My indie mechanic (who I stopped using for reasons unrelated to the sunroof) lubed it. When I asked what he was using, it turns out it was vaseline...
I don't know if either of those products are good, bad, or indifferent. But I do know that when dealing with plastic components, you've got to take care not to use lubricants that will react with the plastic. My plan is to try to get some of that Kluberplex adhesive grease that MINI (which is BMW, after all) calls out, and use it. My main question is: where do I apply it...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swapsafari View Post
Sorry to sound dumb here but does indie/indi mechanic means "Independent Mechanic...?"
That's it exactly!
__________________

X3 w/6-speed & Sport Package:
A sports sedan disguised as an SUV...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:53 PM
uboat uboat is offline
Registered User
Location: Orange County Calif.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34
Mein Auto: X3 & 330Cic
Mine failed on the front passenger side as well.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:00 PM
Evlengr's Avatar
Evlengr Evlengr is offline
Ukemi - that's how I roll
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,252
Mein Auto: 2013 Audi S4 2010 MT MCS
Nothing surprises me after the way they handled the whole transmission issues which at times were life threatening.

Sent from my DROIDX
__________________
2013 S4 Loaded (and NO RFT's) Awesome is an understatement
2008 MT X3 RIP you were a faithful sidekick and will be missed.
2007 AT X3 RIPOS
2005 GC
2000 Jeep Cherokee
1997 Twin Turbo RX-7
1984 GTI Wolfsburg Edition Neuspeed and more
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:24 PM
Dominic49's Avatar
Dominic49 Dominic49 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 245
Mein Auto: Bmw
after having a sunroof failure and seeing that actual weak part of the system, would there be any interest in an aluminum replacement part? it would cost around 400$ or so to get i machined
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:45 PM
codog2 codog2 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: boston, ma
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 720
Mein Auto: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
My indie mechanic (who I stopped using for reasons unrelated to the sunroof) lubed it. When I asked what he was using, it turns out it was vaseline. That's fine with me if it works. I also use the sunroof regularly, based on the "use it or lose it" principle, and am careful that if I have to close it while driving I have the windows cracked open to avoid any unusual air pressure. I still haven't done any inspection (relied on the mechanic for that).

I have a 2007 too, sorry to hear about your exorbitant replacement cost, hoping to avoid that! (Knock wood!)
Isn't petroleum based lubricants such as Vaseline bad for plastic? Sort of like baby oil and rubbers. Perhaps the roof failed due to lack of use? Window regulators are known to fail from lack of use

Last edited by codog2; 11-09-2011 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:09 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 759
Mein Auto: 2007 X3 MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by codog2 View Post
Isn't petroleum based lubricants such as Vaseline bad for plastic? Sort of like baby oil and rubbers. Perhaps the roof failed due to lack of use? Window regulators are known to fail from lack of use
Don't know, maybe I'll try something else, like the Kluberplex adhesive recommended by timfitz63.

Coincidentally (or maybe not) I stopped using this mechanic when he used the wrong lubricant in the differential. Maybe it's not coincidence, maybe he's just consistent.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:54 PM
Terry J. Harris's Avatar
Terry J. Harris Terry J. Harris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wyoming
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 499
Mein Auto: '05 Z4 3.0i & '08 X3.0si
Mine failed on my 2008 at just over 14 months or so, under warranty of course. I rarely use it since. It's a piece of ****, in my opinion. Sorry yours went too.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:26 AM
jman103099's Avatar
jman103099 jman103099 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central IL
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 308
Mein Auto: 2011 X3, 2011 328i
Does anyone know where we can get the Kluberplex? I tried a 30 second google search but didnt come up with much. Anyone else have thoughts on another type of lube for the sunroof (keeping in mind the plastic parts)?
__________________
2011 X3 28i (1/12 - present)
2011 328i (5/11 - present)
2009 MINI Cooper (4/09 - 5/11)
2006 X3 (03/07 - 1/12)
1995 325i (05/06 - 3/09)
1985 325e (08/00 - 12/04)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-10-2011, 08:31 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,574
Mein Auto: '06 X3
Swap, you might want to go over to the regional boards here and post there for Indy recommendations in your area of New Mexico. You might find a diamond in the rough close by -- or not. Worth a chance anyway. I stopped using my sunroof as soon as I noted the startling frequency of failures here on the board. I don't like them anyway (prone to leaks etc.) and would never buy one on its own but it was included as "standard equipment" so I had to take it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms