2009 Carrera S or F30 M3

Here we go again. The last time I posted something like this, 2005 Carrera S vs E90 M3 there were a lot of good discussions, pros and cons. Well, I ended up with the '05 Carrera S because the M3 lacked low end torque for its weight, and it would have been a gas hog, a real turnoff. Eventually, I sold the Carrera S because it was just too much car for where I live in TX. Surrounded by big TX trucks the Carrera S looked like a toy. But, I really missed that car so now I'm thinking of getting one again, but the gen 2 version with 385 hp (~$70K) rather than the 355 hp in the '05 (~$48K) model. Scratch off the new 991 Carrera with the Boxster engine because it is too green a car for my liking, and with only a slight increased in power over the 997 Carrera, it does not entice my curiosity. The question is once again, which would be a better car to get, the 2009 gen 2 Carrera S or the pending F30 M3?

Porsche is never the wrong answer.

Well Dave, it seems to me that only one of your choices actually exists. 997 is definitely a great car, but there's not enough info on the F30 to compare the two.

If you're not adverse to leasing, why not lease the Porsche then when the new M3 comes out you can compare.

This thread will go dormit for a couple of years. Will return when the F30 M3 arrives...

If you don't need real back seats and can get a warranty with the Porsche, the Porsche is a no-brainer. For one thing, it's starting to look as if all the electronic crap that Porsche has piled into the 991 is going to make the 997 into a very desirable "classic," much the same way that the 993s are still so highly valued vs. the water-cooled cars. Therefore, your 997 depreciation may not be so bad. Also, $70,000 sounds too high for a non-convertible car from 2009. I just checked Edmunds and for an "S" coupe with no options and 15,000 miles the average "private party sale" price is $62,000. My guess is that if you can buy that car today (with a few options) for $65,000 you'll be able to sell it in three years for $50,000, whereas if you buy a new M3 for $70,000 I'd guess that in three years you might get $45,000 for it. So unless you don't have significant maintenance costs with the Porsche, it will not only be a much sportier car but it will also be much cheaper to drive (not to mention the Porsche's better gas mileage, lol).

Originally Posted by logicalthought

If you don't need real back seats and can get a warranty with the Porsche, the Porsche is a no-brainer. For one thing, it's starting to look as if all the electronic crap that Porsche has piled into the 991 is going to make the 997 into a very desirable "classic," much the same way that the 993s are still so highly valued vs. the water-cooled cars. Therefore, your 997 depreciation may not be so bad. Also, $70,000 sounds too high for a non-convertible car from 2009. I just checked Edmunds and for an "S" coupe with no options and 15,000 miles the average "private party sale" price is $62,000. My guess is that if you can buy that car today (with a few options) for $65,000 you'll be able to sell it in three years for $50,000, whereas if you buy a new M3 for $70,000 I'd guess that in three years you might get $45,000 for it. So unless you don't have significant maintenance costs with the Porsche, it will not only be a much sportier car but it will also be much cheaper to drive (not to mention the Porsche's better gas mileage, lol).

Edmunds and Kelly are low. If you want one with chron package and the classic 911 wheels, you are going to pay more than $65K, but I hope you are right. My buy will in first part of 2012, see that the 2009 has aged one more year, and perhaps more available after the 3 year lease returning back to the dealer or being sold privately.

Dave,
You will not go wrong either way, but I would consider the 991 Cerrara S as well if the money works.
It will not be as powerful as the 997GT3 but it will be fairly close and no need for front axel lift like with GT3. 991 Cerrara S is much better than the 2009 Cerrara S.
I will say that the 2009 Cerrara S is much better than the 2008 Cerrara S.
I would worry about the turbo M3 without a track recors. The record on the Cerra is Solid!
I have driven the mannual and the PDK versions of the Cerrara S and I like the stick best.
I drive a DCT M3 and I like that better than PDK.
The 2009 is a Tiptronic automatic which I do not like very well.
I can't wait to see what you do.

As logicalthought stated, it would be a good idea to get a CPO 2009 Cerrara if you go that way.
It is true the Porsche models do seem to sell at higher prices than on KBB or Edmunds.
Porsches hold well with depreciation. At this time, I would try to go for the new car for a better value.

Originally Posted by dalekressin

As logicalthought stated, it would be a good idea to get a CPO 2009 Cerrara if you go that way.
It is true the Porsche models do seem to sell at higher prices than on KBB or Edmunds.
Porsches hold well with depreciation. At this time, I would try to go for the new car for a better value.

You pay up the nose buying new. Maybe a used 997 GT3?

Nordschleife excluding GP track, 20.832 kms:
the 2012 Carrera S is said to be 8 seconds faster and the '09 S, with only 15 hp increase. I find it hard to believe.
7:58 --- 156.66 km/h - 2009 Porsche Carrera S (manual transmission) http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=127326
7:59 --- 154.82 km/h - Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting "Performance" (Walter Roehrl, WHEELS 06/ 2004)

7:50 --- 157.79 km/h - BMW E46 M3 CSL, 360 PS/1421 kg (sport auto 08/03)
8:05 --- 152.91 km/h - BMW M3, 420 PS/1608 kg (sport auto 12/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=145617

WTH is a Cerrara? You spelled it like that 7 times.

Originally Posted by 'Cane

WTH is a Cerrara? You spelled it like that 7 times.

Can't spell the name of car he is shopping for
...but he has a nice dawg

My theory is that if you had an M3 (E46), sold it and bought the the Porsche, then sold it and bought an M3 (E92), and now are thinking Porsche...go for the Porsche. I find my intuitions on car buying are pretty accurate. If I like a car and buy it but really yearn for another...I should have bought the other. It will gnaw at me until I do it. Being in Eugene, Oregon where there is no Porsche dealership within 100 miles, I won't buy a Porsche since it's too far away for warranty work or service. Our "exotic" car dealerships are BMW and Mercedes (no Audi dealership). I've always loved the way BMW drives, even with low torque. The new F30 M3/M4 should cure the torque problem with turbos, if that is what you're looking for. Personally, I have trouble spending Porsche dollars on a car with only 2 seats. If I'm carrying friends, I would always have to take the "other" car. With BMW M3, you get the best of both worlds: fast and carries 4 people. If it's brute power you are looking for...the Nissan GT-R is amazing for the money.

Of course the Porsche is a beautiful car. You can't go wrong. Go for the Porsche and in a few years, check out the F0 M3/M4.

I'm probably at the end of my M3 run with my current '09 E92. I've had 8 new BMW's in the last 15 years (6 of them M-cars) and will probably go into a F30 328i or 335i. There is getting to be no where to utilize the high power of the M3 except at the track. At the track, with tires and brake pads and registration for the events, it was probably costing me close to $1K per track event. I could have just as much fun in a cheaper car with cheaper tires and brakes.

Originally Posted by Jim in Oregon

My theory is that if you had an M3 (E46), sold it and bought the the Porsche, then sold it and bought an M3 (E92), and now are thinking Porsche...go for the Porsche. I find my intuitions on car buying are pretty accurate. If I like a car and buy it but really yearn for another...I should have bought the other. It will gnaw at me until I do it. Being in Eugene, Oregon where there is no Porsche dealership within 100 miles, I won't buy a Porsche since it's too far away for warranty work or service. Our "exotic" car dealerships are BMW and Mercedes (no Audi dealership). I've always loved the way BMW drives, even with low torque. The new F30 M3/M4 should cure the torque problem with turbos, if that is what you're looking for. Personally, I have trouble spending Porsche dollars on a car with only 2 seats. If I'm carrying friends, I would always have to take the "other" car. With BMW M3, you get the best of both worlds: fast and carries 4 people. If it's brute power you are looking for...the Nissan GT-R is amazing for the money.

Of course the Porsche is a beautiful car. You can't go wrong. Go for the Porsche and in a few years, check out the F0 M3/M4.

I'm probably at the end of my M3 run with my current '09 E92. I've had 8 new BMW's in the last 15 years (6 of them M-cars) and will probably go into a F30 328i or 335i. There is getting to be no where to utilize the high power of the M3 except at the track. At the track, with tires and brake pads and registration for the events, it was probably costing me close to $1K per track event. I could have just as much fun in a cheaper car with cheaper tires and brakes.

Very logical thinking. I think when you spend more than say $70K, it gets more emotional in your car selections.

Originally Posted by Dave 330i

Very logical thinking. I think when you spend more than say $70K, it gets more emotional in your car selections.

I would also agree with that unless you have a specific purpose for the vehicle such as track use or delivery services for people; then specifics matter.

Originally Posted by Dave 330i

Very logical thinking. I think when you spend more than say $70K, it gets more emotional in your car selections.

.... and very "illogical thinking" is trying to match a car up that exists today (and you can buy), against a car that won't exist for some time to come - and then asking people what they think about it

Cannot argue about GT-R but the Nissan appearance, fit & finish is not my preference.

Confused..if the 05 carrera was "too much car", why would the 09 be any different?

Originally Posted by bmw325

Confused..if the 05 carrera was "too much car", why would the 09 be any different?

Yes, I have to overcome that statement. It will be more than too much car, but I got to have it.

I have been a Rennlist 911 lurker for years and I believe (based on my current lurking) that the sweet spot for a 997 is a CPO 2009 model (as already mentioned) which has a number of early 997 issues worked out and should drop a bit more in price after the 991's start appearing.

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I have been a Rennlist 911 lurker for years and I believe (based on my current lurking) that the sweet spot for a 997 is a CPO 2009 model (as already mentioned) which has a number of early 997 issues worked out and should drop a bit more in price after the 991's start appearing.

I am waiting to see how nice a drop we get from that...

Originally Posted by wyb

I am waiting to see how nice a drop we get from that...

It may be a while before 997.2's really start dropping in price as used car values seem to be holding up and the bump in price for the 991 has lurkers going for CPO 997's instead.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...e-tanking.html

I really wish I had bought a 993 back in 2003 dammit.

Holy crap

Dave if you buy another 997 I am flying to Texas and putting a whopping on you

I am still enjoying my 997.2. It's a great car. But on rough roads it's noisy.

And for those of you waiting for the 997s to suffer a huge drop in price it has not happened yet to the Gen 2s. The 991 is a noticeably more expensive car and unless you just gotta have it people will wait it out. If you do wait the GTS is a wonderful car, wide ass but 2wd and more hp. But 385hp is more than enough.

Originally Posted by vexed

Holy crap

Dave if you buy another 997 I am flying to Texas and putting a whopping on you

I am still enjoying my 997.2. It's a great car. But on rough roads it's noisy.

And for those of you waiting for the 997s to suffer a huge drop in price it has not happened yet to the Gen 2s. The 991 is a noticeably more expensive car and unless you just gotta have it people will wait it out. If you do wait the GTS is a wonderful car, wide ass but 2wd and more hp. But 385hp is more than enough.

It is not going to be a daily car, for sure. I do miss that Gen 1 Carrera S. The saving grace was I MADE a few bucks selling it. It was in mint condition. Gen2 S is around $70K right now. Price will drop when those 3 yrs leases are over.

In addition to being larger, the 991 also grows in terms of power. The 911 Carrera S, which is powered by a 3.8-liter, direct-injected, six-cylinder engine. It puts out 400 horsepower and 325 pound-feet of torque, each figure a gain of 15 over the outgoing Carrera S. I read the 991S is capable of 7-8 secs faster than the Gen 2 S around Nurburgring. I seriously doubt that.

Originally Posted by wyb

I am waiting to see how nice a drop we get from that...

2009 TT is a lot nicer than 2008 and the 2010 is significantly better yet especially if you don't want a mannual; the PDK is very nice like our M3 DCT.