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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:54 PM
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2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

Would anyone seriously cross shop this against a F30?
Quote:
2013 Cadillac ATS
GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.



Development of the new 2013 Cadillac ATS was considered such a priority, it was one of the few programs that was not stopped during GM's bankruptcy. Why? Because the ATS is GM's entree into the largest luxury vehicle segment in the world, a segment basically created by BMW's 3 Series. This is the car that will make Cadillac a global luxury brand.

The new ATS faithfully follows the segment-defining BMW's formula. In fact, chief engineer Dave Masch would probably argue his baby Caddy follows it even more faithfully than BMW. The dynamic benchmark for the ATS was the E46 3 Series, the car many enthusiasts still regard as best of the breed. Masch's team believes BMW moved away from the driver-focused chassis tune of the E46 with the current 3 Series -- the E90 -- and expects that trend will continue with the next-gen 3 Series due later this year. They see an opportunity for Cadillac.

2013 Cadillac ATS Rear Three Quarters
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The ATS is virtually all-new from the tires up. About the only parts that could be considered carryover are the revised 3.6-liter DI V-6 and the 6L45E six-speed automatic transmission. It rolls on GM's new lightweight Alpha architecture - the base ATS weighs just over 3300 pounds -- and the chassis has been tuned to deliver razor-sharp steering, precise handling, and buttoned-down ride. The car has been optimized around 17- and 18-inch wheels to keep weight down and improve agility.

The first pre-production cars rolled down the line at the Lansing Grand River Assembly plant in Michigan just before Christmas. The ATS will launch as a sedan only, but coupe, convertible and wagon versions will be rolled out over the next two to three years. There will also be V-series versions. No official word on powertrain for the ATS-V, but a twin-turbo version of the 3.6-liter V-6 looks likely, partly because of the tight underhood packaging, but also because rivals like BMW's next-gen M3 are moving to smaller forced induction powerplants.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows...#ixzz1iuFAEVF2
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:04 PM
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First of all, the fact that its american, means i would not consider it. Second, only people that should be driving Cadillacs are those with white hair. imo
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:49 AM
tlm999 tlm999 is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
First of all, the fact that its american, means i would not consider it. Second, only people that should be driving Cadillacs are those with white hair. imo
I've got white hair and have never considered a Cadillac. On occasion I've been forced to drive my parent's Caddy and hated it. That said, I'd still be willing to test drive their new attempt at attracting BMW owners. The fact that it is American makes me more willing to give it a test since I'd love for the American car companies to finally build a car that I'd enjoy owning and driving. I just won't set my expectations very high and it is very unlikely that I will be swayed.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:16 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
First of all, the fact that its american, means i would not consider it. Second, only people that should be driving Cadillacs are those with white hair. imo
You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.
I agree

Seeing Cadillac in 2012 as an old man's car shows a lack of knowledge or a phenomenally closed mind. The CTS is a terrific car and we all know the V series cars are world class. I expect the ATS to be a serious player in this class. I had a 2006 CTS and despite a plasticky interior it was a terrific vehicle.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.
They havent yet
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.
The Hyundai Eqqus is taking on the 7er right? No one is buying it because of the badge...even if it matches it feature by feature and stat by stat.

No thanks.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jocamryn View Post
The Hyundai Eqqus is taking on the 7er right? No one is buying it because of the badge...even if it matches it feature by feature and stat by stat.

No thanks.
I agree than no one is buying the Equus because of the badge -- but I wouldn't say "no one" is buying the Equus -- if the Equus is meant to compete with the features of the 7-Series and costs $55k versus $66k -- if I were in BMW marketing their sales figures so far would send a small chill up my spine!



As a matter of comparison, BMW sold 1,227 examples of the 7-Series in November 2011 and 803 in November 2010. YTD sales were 10,080 in 2011 and 11,229 in 2010.

Impressive results given that the Equus is a brand-new model, and, well, it's a $55k Hyundai and so it won't attract very many status seekers, if any at all!
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2012, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Majikthese42 View Post
I agree than no one is buying the Equus because of the badge -- but I wouldn't say "no one" is buying the Equus -- if the Equus is meant to compete with the features of the 7-Series and costs $55k versus $66k -- if I were in BMW marketing their sales figures so far would send a small chill up my spine!



As a matter of comparison, BMW sold 1,227 examples of the 7-Series in November 2011 and 803 in November 2010. YTD sales were 10,080 in 2011 and 11,229 in 2010.

Impressive results given that the Equus is a brand-new model, and, well, it's a $55k Hyundai and so it won't attract very many status seekers, if any at all!
Agree. And this is the major difference in strategies. The Equus is a vastly less expensive alternative to a 7 series of S Class or LS460. From initial reports, it doesn't look like the ATS is going to be vastly cheaper than a 3 series.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Agree. And this is the major difference in strategies. The Equus is a vastly less expensive alternative to a 7 series of S Class or LS460. From initial reports, it doesn't look like the ATS is going to be vastly cheaper than a 3 series.
Of course Caddy is no Hyundai either. But I agree the ATS will have trouble selling if it is priced at the F30 level. But then again, if it produces some impressive performance numbers, sounds nice and aggresive (somethings the 328s usually lack), it may just do it.

The difference here is, BMW 3ers are its base model, they must rely on them to meet CAFE standards. Caddy does not.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Agree. And this is the major difference in strategies. The Equus is a vastly less expensive alternative to a 7 series of S Class or LS460. From initial reports, it doesn't look like the ATS is going to be vastly cheaper than a 3 series.
The Hyundai products are less expensive for a number of reasons and while they are relative bargains, the reviews say they are not nearly as refined as their competition. If Cadillac hopes to compete against BMW they will need to provide more than sharp handling. Refinement means intuitive handling, smooth engines with nice clutches and gearboxes, quality switchgear and sweating the small details (like a damped glovebox door, no sharp edges, etc.).
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:37 PM
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This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by drive by72 View Post
This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine
There heritage is how the car drives, and thats to say its the benchmark of its class..
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by drive by72 View Post
This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine
The ATS is not news to anyone. I don't see BMW reengineering the F30 to compete with the ATS. They most certainly knew of it while designing it. It already looks to be once again the top of it's class.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:32 PM
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I'll definitely give the turbo and V6 models a look. I've loved my BMWs but they've been... sorta unreliable. If Caddy can deliver 95% of the driving experience for the same or probably less money then that's awesome. Sadly at this point the 3 series still lacks real competitors but I hope this car changes that.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:38 PM
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Cadillac is coming out with great enthusiast-minded products lately. CTS-V = that's no grandpa car folks. If the steering feel on this ATS is better than the F30, I'll consider it. (Besides, people might treat me nicer on the road and not give me this douche stereotype crap, LOL)
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Inline Sixer View Post
Cadillac is coming out with great enthusiast-minded products lately. CTS-V = that's no grandpa car folks. If the steering feel on this ATS is better than the F30, I'll consider it. (Besides, people might treat me nicer on the road and not give me this douche stereotype crap, LOL)
ZF makes both gears (ATS & F30). Unless GM can tune it better than BMW the steering won't be better.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:50 PM
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Good for Cadillac. They have gotten their act together in recent years with some great offerings. I looked seriously at both the CTS and SRX in recent years. Vast improvements in performance, reliability, fit/finish, and quality of interior materials. But I always walked off the lot impressed but not swayed. I still think they are a half-step behind BMW and others but their effort and the competition it brings tothe market is great for us all.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:19 PM
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ZF makes both gears (ATS & F30). Unless GM can tune it better than BMW the steering won't be better.
Nice to know. What the Cadi doesn't have though is European Delivery. I don't think Detroit Delivery sounds as enticing.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:44 PM
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This is a very good thing. Competition will force BMW to stay on their toes. It would be great if another car manufacturer, be it Cadillac, Audi, Merc, or whoever, made a line as good as the E46. You know bmw would be embarrassed if they succeeded, and you know we'd all be getting a baby M3 as the next 3 series if that happened. We all should be proud of Cadillac for setting their goals on making a great drivers car.

Last edited by 7or8; 01-08-2012 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:51 PM
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Every manufactures goal is the 3series....i have been reading about car company "x" taking aim at the 3 sereis for 15 years now. Fact is none of them can offer the driving experience the 3 series can.
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:03 PM
7or8 7or8 is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Every manufactures goal is the 3series....i have been reading about car company "x" taking aim at the 3 sereis for 15 years now. Fact is none of them can offer the driving experience the 3 series can.
Yes, in theory, because they say it in marketing literature. But, in reality I don't think their engineering depts are given the latitude to really try. Audi?.. seems to only try on their S4. Merc? ...tries more on comfort and luxury on their competing line. Porsche? ..no sedans in the same price range. Caddy? ..seem to be trying. Acura? ..hasn't seemed to figure out yet what they want to be. Lexus? ..nope. Volvo? ..I don't even wanna..

Marketing, and actual attempt, is a very different thing. Audi has been very successful in what they've been doing..but what they've been doing is not really trying to compete head on with the 3-series. Same goes for Merc.

Last edited by 7or8; 01-08-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Every manufactures goal is the 3series....i have been reading about car company "x" taking aim at the 3 sereis for 15 years now. Fact is SO FAR none of them have offered the driving experience the 3 series does.
Fixed,

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Old 01-08-2012, 05:39 PM
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Cadillac is also gearing up its brand cache, with new high end designed showrooms.
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:57 PM
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It seems the only company that can finally foil the 3-series is BMW itself, if it chooses to ruin it.
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