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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:09 AM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Transmission Warning: Gear in use without Break

Yell out for help,

From past few months, everytime I start the car for the first time in the morning (cold) it starts rough and the car gives a warning message "Caution Gear can be engaged without applying brake. Possible to continue your journey with caution. Switch off engine before leaving". After running the car for couple of minutes, turning off and turning back on, the message goes away until next day when it is cold again. Any clues?

Prior to my BMW 525i E60, I had a Honda accord which died on its tranmission, I don't want this one to die on it tranmission again..............please help with any solution.

Stealer looked at it for $200+ and suggested a software upgrade or replacement of triptronic system which will cost me 5K.

I hope some BMW Guru outthere can save me here.........

Cheers.
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  #2  
Old 08-14-2012, 12:45 PM
BluebeamA BluebeamA is offline
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Sounds like my problem but for 530i 2004 I have no clue whats going on got me scared as hell
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2012, 02:30 AM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Okay, after another $220 I got a code for this transmission fault "4E87 Solenoid valve 4 (shift lock)". The guy did not wanted to do any thing else and told me to look for a transmission expert. And BMW just wanted to upgrade the software or change the entire transmission.

Any help would be welcome here guys.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2012, 08:28 PM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Okay Guys, I need help from some BMW GURU here.

My tranmission expert who was sure to fix the problem, had a look and confirmed that the MECHATRONIC unit needs to be replaced as it can't be repaired. Issues I have is, the Mechatronic unit is programmed to the car, so I can't just change the unit, it has to be coded by the stealer. Is this true?

Secondly, I am thinking to buy a second hand tranmission and just replace the whole unit, but what I am not sure if if the electricals on the card would need to be re-prgrammed or can the physical transmission just be replaced.

All suggestions are welcome.
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2012, 07:19 PM
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kskane kskane is offline
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After some great help from CTSC, I finally figured the solenoid 4E87 is outside the trans above the top of the gear shift. In order to get to it, you have pull out the following in sequence.

1. Hazard switch
2. Panel holding the air vents
3. Front panel containing the controls to AC etc
4. Lower panel where your NAV DVD section.
5. The centre knob
6. Menu switch
7. Gear shift knob + cover + drive panel (which indicate which gear you are in)
8. The complete mid section panel.
9. Cigarette lighter holder

And now finally if you see right above the gear shift, you will see a cable going into the gear shift. That little connector wire is going into the solenoid 4E87 (picture attached). Now back to my problem. During cold start I get a warning for this solenoid not being functional and then it disappears after few minutes. I have checked the solenoid is fine to its resistance of 19-21 Ohms, and the connecting cable has the right voltage during the day time, but strangely at cold start, the cable does not have any voltage at all for few minutes thus causing that fault message.

Does anyone has any idea why the cable will not have voltage for first few minutes? Anyone good with BMW WDS and know where the current in this cable is coming from that I can diagnose further?
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2012, 10:25 PM
bimmerfan52 bimmerfan52 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
After some great help from CTSC, I finally figured the solenoid 4E87 is outside the trans above the top of the gear shift. In order to get to it, you have pull out the following in sequence.

1. Hazard switch
2. Panel holding the air vents
3. Front panel containing the controls to AC etc
4. Lower panel where your NAV DVD section.
5. The centre knob
6. Menu switch
7. Gear shift knob + cover + drive panel (which indicate which gear you are in)
8. The complete mid section panel.
9. Cigarette lighter holder

And now finally if you see right above the gear shift, you will see a cable going into the gear shift. That little connector wire is going into the solenoid 4E87 (picture attached). Now back to my problem. During cold start I get a warning for this solenoid not being functional and then it disappears after few minutes. I have checked the solenoid is fine to its resistance of 19-21 Ohms, and the connecting cable has the right voltage during the day time, but strangely at cold start, the cable does not have any voltage at all for few minutes thus causing that fault message.

Does anyone has any idea why the cable will not have voltage for first few minutes? Anyone good with BMW WDS and know where the current in this cable is coming from that I can diagnose further?
If you hadn't tested the voltage on the solenoid I would have suggested you check to see if a soft drink had been spilled into the console and the solenoid was sticking.

I assume you checked the connector and pins to make sure they were making a positive contact and didn't need to be cleaned.

The fact that you begin to receive this signal after a few minutes of warm up leads me to believe that the generation of the signal has to do with heat and expansion at an electrical connection or solenoid.

The voltage is received from the TCM or Transmission Control Module, which in turn receives the signal from magnetic valve solenoids in the mechatronics unit of the transmission. There is also interaction from the ECM.

Failure of the solenoid, TCM or any electrical connections in between can interrupt the signal.

The attached PDF is for the same transmission, but specific to a 2002 745i. It explains the operation of the MV or magnetic valve solenoids and which one controls the transmission lock solenoid.

As you dig deeper into the TCM you should be able to isolate which pins bring the signal from the transmission for the transmission lock. If the TCM is getting the signal then it is the wiring between the TCM and console or the TCM itself.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you that the problem is outside the transmission. Pulling out the mechatronics unit is not for the faint of heart and pretty high on the DIY scale of difficulty.

In the PDF the writer's problem was the solenoid was stuck in the locked position, preventing the transmission from being taken out of park. Your problem is after you put it back into park the solenoid is not returning to the locked position, thus when you start the car the next time the ECM and TCM module system checks on start up sense the solenoid out of position and you throw a fault.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DIY Mechatronics.pdf (1.12 MB, 5640 views)

Last edited by bimmerfan52; 09-13-2012 at 01:41 AM. Reason: Addtl Info
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2012, 09:46 PM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Location: Australia
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
After some great help from CTSC, I finally figured the solenoid 4E87 is outside the trans above the top of the gear shift. In order to get to it, you have pull out the following in sequence.

1. Hazard switch
2. Panel holding the air vents
3. Front panel containing the controls to AC etc
4. Lower panel where your NAV DVD section.
5. The centre knob
6. Menu switch
7. Gear shift knob + cover + drive panel (which indicate which gear you are in)
8. The complete mid section panel.
9. Cigarette lighter holder

And now finally if you see right above the gear shift, you will see a cable going into the gear shift. That little connector wire is going into the solenoid 4E87 (picture attached). Now back to my problem. During cold start I get a warning for this solenoid not being functional and then it disappears after few minutes. I have checked the solenoid is fine to its resistance of 19-21 Ohms, and the connecting cable has the right voltage during the day time, but strangely at cold start, the cable does not have any voltage at all for few minutes thus causing that fault message.

Does anyone has any idea why the cable will not have voltage for first few minutes? Anyone good with BMW WDS and know where the current in this cable is coming from that I can diagnose further?
Does anyone knows if the solenoid highlighted in the picture above is actually part number "25 12 7 507 036 - SMG/SHIFTLOCK Gear shifting Steptronic, SMG". If yes, is there a way to replace it?
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:17 AM
MRV99 MRV99 is offline
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I had this issue on my 550 and they replaced the shifter to fix it.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2012, 02:24 PM
PZimniewicz PZimniewicz is offline
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Update

All,

Thank you so much for the replies. So, I yanked of gear knob and was also able to get in hole by cigarette lighter. It took awhile and some patience, but I removed a good amoun of change. As I went through the process, I found a dime that looked like it had better days, a bit chewed up and bent. I got all of the change out and closed up. Started the far, and viola, message gone. Lucky,maybe, but who knows what that wedged in dime was doing.

Seems like all good now. I will update if it returns. Leaves me with a follow up. My car had 101,820 on it. I would like to get another 40000 put of it if I could. It sounds like from what I have read that a tranny fluid change is now recommended by many. I currently experience no transmission issues at all. Is the generally accepted practice now to do this regardless? Am I to late to the game or better to ride it out already at 100k?

Your opinions are most valued. Not sure if I would try to tackle this myself or work with my Indy to try and arrange a fair price.

Again, I very much appreciate the previous replies to my post. I wouldn't have had the nerve to rip up the shifter if I did not feel comfortable. I can't believe it worked.

Paul
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2012, 06:44 PM
bimmerfan52 bimmerfan52 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PZimniewicz View Post
All,

Thank you so much for the replies. So, I yanked of gear knob and was also able to get in hole by cigarette lighter. It took awhile and some patience, but I removed a good amoun of change. As I went through the process, I found a dime that looked like it had better days, a bit chewed up and bent. I got all of the change out and closed up. Started the far, and viola, message gone. Lucky,maybe, but who knows what that wedged in dime was doing.

Seems like all good now. I will update if it returns. Leaves me with a follow up. My car had 101,820 on it. I would like to get another 40000 put of it if I could. It sounds like from what I have read that a tranny fluid change is now recommended by many. I currently experience no transmission issues at all. Is the generally accepted practice now to do this regardless? Am I to late to the game or better to ride it out already at 100k?

Your opinions are most valued. Not sure if I would try to tackle this myself or work with my Indy to try and arrange a fair price.

Again, I very much appreciate the previous replies to my post. I wouldn't have had the nerve to rip up the shifter if I did not feel comfortable. I can't believe it worked.

Paul
I am surprised that coins were apparently enough to short the solenoid or block the action of the pin but that was a cheap fix and good news!

It is never too late to renew fluids. If you are game, take a crack at it yourself. It is not brain surgery.

You will need a couple of basic tools and a torque wrench. If you are going to do the pan buy some extra bolts ahead of time as the torque heads are easily striped.
You will need four jack stands or two jack stands and two ramps as the car must be level during the fill process.

Nealy all of the tools can be had very cheaply at Harbor Freight Tool and are good enough for occasional use. Watch for ads in the back of major car magazines for HFT ads with coupons for generous discounts.

There are some excellent DIY procedures for the E60 transmission fluid change on this forum. And because two drain and fills are required with a week or two to mix the fluid in between, having it done by an Indy means two separate visits to the shop and gets costly.

Besides, once you have the tools you will want to do your rear differential fluid also and you will have everything you need.
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2012, 06:55 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is online now
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Tip: reset transmission adaptations if/when you do change the oil. Mine went bazirk until I did that, and I sure more than one transmission has been mistakenly taken for dead because of not doing this.
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2012, 07:14 PM
bimmerfan52 bimmerfan52 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
Tip: reset transmission adaptations if/when you do change the oil. Mine went bazirk until I did that, and I sure more than one transmission has been mistakenly taken for dead because of not doing this.
+1
Good point. I didn't have to do mine but each situation is different. It certainly can't hurt.
The pan and sealing sleeve had been changed on mine 15k miles before I did my fluid change and maybe the dealer did it (all before I owned the car).
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:19 PM
PZimniewicz PZimniewicz is offline
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Fluid Change

Thanks all. I am going to take a look through the procedure to see if I feel comfortable doing something like this myself. It sounds like it would be a smart move and give my transmission some additional life potentially or stop potential problems from creeping up. Does the procedure explain how to reset transmission adaptions?

Paul
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:25 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is online now
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I doubt it.

You'll have to get INPA going to do it.. there are plenty of threads that explain that around here somewhere
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2013, 05:03 PM
delaplace delaplace is offline
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Exclamation 4e87 solenoid valve 4 (shift lock)

Hi,

I had the rear end of my x5 2004 4.4l slamming on stop and go, first I was scared the transmission had problems. Brought the car to a Bmw mechanic specialist (not the dealer). He changed some bushings in the suspension and it fixed the slamming problem. He said it was missing 1L of transmission fluid so he added the missing oil. Since that my dashboard is showing fault code from the trans : trans failsafe program. The garage said he had nothing to do with this. Problem started exactly when I got back from the garage and frankly I don't really care I just want the car to stop show this error message. I want to buy a more recent x5 and now mine is kind of hard to sell.

I put the SnapOn scanner on it and the code is 4e87 solenoid valve 4 (shift lock).

The car is working fine, I don't feel any irregularity when I'm using it.

What could be the cause of this?

4 days ago, I changed about 5L of trans oil and changed the filter for a new one. Would it need another oil change to make a difference?

Problem happen only when the car is cold.
I think my best guess would be to go see the connection of the solenoid under the shifter and maybe test the resistance on it.

Any other idea?

Thank you
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2013, 05:42 PM
banglenot banglenot is offline
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Because of the significant detail I'd vote this thread a sticky.
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2013, 03:40 PM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banglenot View Post
Because of the significant detail I'd vote this thread a sticky.
I agree, it will help a lot of ZF 6HP19Z owners. How do we vote with moderators to make this sticky?
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2013, 04:21 PM
banglenot banglenot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
I agree, it will help a lot of ZF 6HP19Z owners. How do we vote with moderators to make this sticky?
give it a good rating under "rate this thread"
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2013, 07:20 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delaplace View Post
Hi,

I had the rear end of my x5 2004 4.4l slamming on stop and go, first I was scared the transmission had problems. Brought the car to a Bmw mechanic specialist (not the dealer). He changed some bushings in the suspension and it fixed the slamming problem. He said it was missing 1L of transmission fluid so he added the missing oil. Since that my dashboard is showing fault code from the trans : trans failsafe program. The garage said he had nothing to do with this. Problem started exactly when I got back from the garage and frankly I don't really care I just want the car to stop show this error message. I want to buy a more recent x5 and now mine is kind of hard to sell.

I put the SnapOn scanner on it and the code is 4e87 solenoid valve 4 (shift lock).

The car is working fine, I don't feel any irregularity when I'm using it.

What could be the cause of this?

4 days ago, I changed about 5L of trans oil and changed the filter for a new one. Would it need another oil change to make a difference?

Problem happen only when the car is cold.
I think my best guess would be to go see the connection of the solenoid under the shifter and maybe test the resistance on it.

Any other idea?

Thank you
I am finding different things about that solenoid valve. I'm not sure whether it's the one that locks the shifter in park until you press the brake down, or if it's one in the transmission. If one in the transmission, you won't have any luck messing with wiring without pulling the valve body out.

The wiring connected to the transmission is not a simple "pin 1 + pin 2 connect to solenoid 4" type thing. The transmission has a computer on the valve body which is connected to the CAN BUS for the rest of the car via the connector to the transmission..

Do you have any symptoms at all? Did the tech reset adaptations after adding fluid?

edit: I found this post which makes it seem like it's the one near the shifter, not in the transmission. That will certainly make it easier to test

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...53&postcount=5

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=639215

Last edited by schpenxel; 11-26-2013 at 07:22 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2013, 03:34 PM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
I am finding different things about that solenoid valve. I'm not sure whether it's the one that locks the shifter in park until you press the brake down, or if it's one in the transmission. If one in the transmission, you won't have any luck messing with wiring without pulling the valve body out........
4e87 solenoid valve 4 (shift lock) - This is the solenoid on the gear shift behind the cigarette lighter.
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  #21  
Old 11-27-2013, 03:38 PM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delaplace View Post
Hi,

I had the rear end of my x5 2004 4.4l slamming on stop and go, first I was scared the transmission had problems. Brought the car to a Bmw mechanic specialist (not the dealer). He changed some bushings in the suspension and it fixed the slamming problem. He said it was missing 1L of transmission fluid so he added the missing oil. Since that my dashboard is showing fault code from the trans : trans failsafe program. The garage said he had nothing to do with this. Problem started exactly when I got back from the garage and frankly I don't really care I just want the car to stop show this error message. I want to buy a more recent x5 and now mine is kind of hard to sell.

I put the SnapOn scanner on it and the code is 4e87 solenoid valve 4 (shift lock).

The car is working fine, I don't feel any irregularity when I'm using it.

What could be the cause of this?

4 days ago, I changed about 5L of trans oil and changed the filter for a new one. Would it need another oil change to make a difference?

Problem happen only when the car is cold.
I think my best guess would be to go see the connection of the solenoid under the shifter and maybe test the resistance on it.

Any other idea?

Thank you
From my experience of the transmission problem since I had started this thread and thanks to all the input from people, I can suggest one thing - Adding/toping oil to transmission is not simple/easy and should not done with a different brand. Unless you are sure the mechanic used exactly the same oil brand/type to top up which was inside the transmission, you will have problem. I would recommend a full drain, pan change and new oil topped according to ZF recommendation. This will be a cheaper option to try first before thinking of further diagnose. While you are at this, change the mechatronic sleeve as it could be leaking.
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2013, 08:52 PM
delaplace delaplace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
From my experience of the transmission problem since I had started this thread and thanks to all the input from people, I can suggest one thing - Adding/toping oil to transmission is not simple/easy and should not done with a different brand. Unless you are sure the mechanic used exactly the same oil brand/type to top up which was inside the transmission, you will have problem. I would recommend a full drain, pan change and new oil topped according to ZF recommendation. This will be a cheaper option to try first before thinking of further diagnose. While you are at this, change the mechatronic sleeve as it could be leaking.
I'm not sure what type of oil the mechanic added. What I'm sure is that it's started right after he added oil in it..

I'll begin with the full drain. Is there a way to drain all the oil at 1 time?

Thank you
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2013, 05:47 AM
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kskane kskane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delaplace View Post
I'm not sure what type of oil the mechanic added. What I'm sure is that it's started right after he added oil in it..

I'll begin with the full drain. Is there a way to drain all the oil at 1 time?

Thank you
Read up this thread, I am sure the steps are here somewhere. But it is not one of the easiest oil change to perform. If you want to do it yourself, you will need two people to do it. One sitting in the car and one under the car. Sounds very ridiculous, but only GOD knows why ZF designed the refill in such a manner. Steps are available here on the forum, the fill is two part - Initial fill with engine off, then finishing fill with engine on. Good luck and if you have problem finding the steps, let me know and I will dig up something from the past.
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2013, 10:42 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is online now
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Not really, some will be stuck in the torque converter
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  #25  
Old 09-01-2014, 01:03 PM
delaplace delaplace is offline
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Hi again,

I changed the oil second time 6 months ago and after 2 or 3 times taking the car. Message stopped to show and I thought that was it finally we found the problem and it was solved by changing the trans oil twice.

3 months ago nightmare started again. 2 weeks ago I decided to remove all the center console to go see what's wrong whit it. Bought a used shifter on eBay and changed the solenoid (I know the is a chance the used one have the same problem but..) So I replaced the solenoid and I still have the trans fail safe program message after 5 minutes driving.

Now that everything is open I can see that the solenoid is working fine. From what I know..
Look

I'm supposing there is still some bad oil in the trans. Remember that my problem started right after a mechanic added a pint of oil in it and that after the second oil change it took a while before it came back.

I'm about to change the oil a third time unless you have a better idea.


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