Is the new 3 series is losing US market share?

According to the Sep. 2012 sales reports: BMW 3 series, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, -16.8% and year to date -3.1%. The MB C class, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, +14.7% and year to date +25.2%. The Audi A4, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, +12.8% and year to date +6.9%.
For a car that is recently redesigned and considering that both the C-class and the A4 is at the end of their design cycles, the new 3 series should be be posting much better sales numbers.

Originally Posted by The X Men

According to the Sep. 2012 sales reports: BMW 3 series, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, -16.8% and year to date -3.1%. The MB C class, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, +14.7% and year to date +25.2%. The Audi A4, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, +12.8% and year to date +6.9%.
For a car that is recently redesigned and considering that both the C-class and the A4 is at the end of their design cycles, the new 3 series should be be posting much better sales numbers.

It's a total flop and BMW will be out of business shortly

Originally Posted by justinnum1

It's a total flop and BMW will be out of business shortly.

I'm going to return mine tomorrow, maybe get a 2011 328xi because it's so fresh looking.

BJ

Originally Posted by The X Men

According to the Sep. 2012 sales reports: BMW 3 series, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, -16.8% and year to date -3.1%. The MB C class, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, +14.7% and year to date +25.2%. The Audi A4, Sep 2012 compare to Sep 2011, +12.8% and year to date +6.9%.
For a car that is recently redesigned and considering that both the C-class and the A4 is at the end of their design cycles, the new 3 series should be be posting much better sales numbers.

I would say that it looks like there is trouble brewing in River City, especially since I had read another article that said US car sales in September were the best they have been since early '08.

Where did you get the sales breakdown per manufacturer/model?

The problem BMW has with the 3-series in the US is the price hike vs the E90 and no question it's hurting sales.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

The problem BMW has with the 3-series in the US is the price hike vs the E90 and no question it's hurting sales.

How can you say "no question"? There are way to many factors to be certain of this. Remember that the E92 and E93 are at the end of their lives and that probably hurts sales. There still seems to be a shortage of F30's as well which hurts. Price may also be a factor but in reality it makes no sense to judge sales of a car when it really hasn't been available as a full line yet. Lets look back on this in a year to have a large enough sample size and enough time to make a proper evaluation.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

How can you say "no question"? There are way to many factors to be certain of this. Remember that the E92 and E93 are at the end of their lives and that probably hurts sales. There still seems to be a shortage of F30's as well which hurts. Price may also be a factor but in reality it makes no sense to judge sales of a car when it really hasn't been available as a full line yet. Lets look back on this in a year to have a large enough sample size and enough time to make a proper evaluation.

Stop it, stop using common sense.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Stop it, stop using common sense.

Not enough F30 inventory. Check.

Not enough XDrive models. Check.

Too much pre-existing E90 inventory. Check.

A flood of used E90 inventory. Check.

Virtually no F30 advertising. Check.

E92 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E93 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E91 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

A bunch of E9X owners looking for any reason to slam our cars and "send a message to BMW" invades the F30 forum. Check.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Not enough F30 inventory. Check.

Not enough XDrive models. Check.

Too much pre-existing E90 inventory. Check.

A flood of used E90 inventory. Check.

Virtually no F30 advertising. Check.

E92 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E93 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E91 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

A bunch of E9X owners looking for any reason to slam our cars and "send a message to BMW" invades the F30 forum. Check.

BJ

BMW didn't used to need excuses.

The local dealer has 18 2013 328Xi's on the lot. If the problem is really pent up demand of customers sitting around for months itching to buy a 328Xi, why so many cars sitting there?

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Not enough F30 inventory. Check.

Not enough XDrive models. Check.

Too much pre-existing E90 inventory. Check.

A flood of used E90 inventory. Check.

Virtually no F30 advertising. Check.

E92 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E93 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

E91 looking tired and stale, new model coming soon. Check.

A bunch of E9X owners looking for any reason to slam our cars and "send a message to BMW" invades the F30 forum. Check.

BJ

Over-zealous and over-defensive F30 owners? Check.

Potential F30 buyers asking questions and participating in debates are squashed? Check.

Anyone questioning BMW or the F30 receives a witch-hunt treatment? Check.

According to this web site, BMW 3 Series sales appear to be trending up in September over August 2012, but still down considerably as compared to year-over-year sales. Up through April 2012, the sales numbers would appear to include previous model close-out sales.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

How can you say "no question"? There are way to many factors to be certain of this. Remember that the E92 and E93 are at the end of their lives and that probably hurts sales. There still seems to be a shortage of F30's as well which hurts. Price may also be a factor but in reality it makes no sense to judge sales of a car when it really hasn't been available as a full line yet. Lets look back on this in a year to have a large enough sample size and enough time to make a proper evaluation.

Fair enough comment. I just remember the difference in pricing out an E90 two years ago vs the F30 and certainly caused me to hesitate when placing my order. Clearly that's not empirical data.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

Fair enough comment. I just remember the difference in pricing out an E90 two years ago vs the F30 and certainly caused me to hesitate when placing my order. Clearly that's not empirical data.

Have you looked at my F30 price thread?

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Have you looked at my F30 price thread?

Nope... and seeing as I have already swallowed the red pill and taken delivery of my car there is little point in doing so.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

How can you say "no question"? There are way to many factors to be certain of this. Remember that the E92 and E93 are at the end of their lives and that probably hurts sales. There still seems to be a shortage of F30's as well which hurts. Price may also be a factor but in reality it makes no sense to judge sales of a car when it really hasn't been available as a full line yet. Lets look back on this in a year to have a large enough sample size and enough time to make a proper evaluation.

I agree, E92 and E93 are at the end of their design cycle, but so are the competitions. I also did not include the sales numbers for the Audi A5, which is technically a A4 coupe. The A5 's sales numbers went up 25.6% last month compare to Sep 2011 and year to date compare to last year went up 10.9%. What is this shortage that everyone is talking about, there are plenty of F30 in dealer lots here in the Northeast. My guess is that F30 sales might be better in a year or two, but thats not due to stock or full line, it will be due to pricing structure. Unfortunately, both the A4 and the C class are due for redesign for the MY 2014 and the 3 series will have stiffer competition.

Originally Posted by The X Men

I agree, E92 and E93 are at the end of their design cycle, but so are the competitions. I also did not include the sales numbers for the Audi A5, which is technically a A4 coupe. The A5 's sales numbers went up 25.6% last month compare to Sep 2011 and year to date compare to last year went up 10.9%. What is this shortage that everyone is talking about, there are plenty of F30 in dealer lots here in the Northeast. My guess is that F30 sales might be better in a year or two, but thats not due to stock or full line, it will be due to pricing structure. Unfortunately, both the A4 and the C class are due for redesign for the MY 2014 and the 3 series will have stiffer competition.

The A4 just had an LCI for 2013. The C also saw some minor updates. Are you sure they will be redesigned for 2014?

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

The problem BMW has with the 3-series in the US is the price hike vs the E90 and no question it's hurting sales.

My F30 lease is $60 a month less than my E90 lease was and its more heavily configured.

In fact, I'm in my third E9X since 2006 and I'm paying less than the prior two. I don't think it's price. It's, what else, a transition.

BJ

I will withhold judgement until the E9x models have run their course. And if you think about it the E9x was such a high volume car as it was getting ready to be replaced by the F30, so I am not suprised the A4 and the C-class are getting bought up. There are some sweet deals out there for both models.

I currently own a 2012 Audi A4 Prestige S-Line fully loaded that I will be trading in when my 328xDrive arrives. A couple of things to keep in mind. If you look at the A4 sales for last year they where down most of the year and there was no Audi advertising for that model. This year the model has been refreshed and I have noticed a significant increase in the Audi advertising I see on TV and online. I'm sure both of those play into the increase in sales. Also, wasn't the MB C-Class refreshed before the new F30's? If so then they have had more time on the market.

Originally Posted by MacManVA

I currently own a 2012 Audi A4 Prestige S-Line fully loaded that I will be trading in when my 328xDrive arrives. A couple of things to keep in mind. If you look at the A4 sales for last year they where down most of the year and there was no Audi advertising for that model. This year the model has been refreshed and I have noticed a significant increase in the Audi advertising I see on TV and online. I'm sure both of those play into the increase in sales. Also, wasn't the MB C-Class refreshed before the new F30's? If so then they have had more time on the market.

The C class was refresh for the 2012 model year and the A4 had a minor refresh for 2013. Keep in mind, a refresh is not the same as a redesign, it rarely generates as much increase in sales as a full redesign. Its almost like MB and Audi is sent in their AAA minor baseball team against BMW's major league team and MB and Audi is winning.

Originally Posted by Chris90

Since most buyers just walk into a dealership and buy a car off the lot, you'd have to compare typical price of cars on the lot. Dunno if that's higher though.

The competition is tough, and BMWs drive more and more like the competition. A '95 3 series didn't drive like any Toyota, Lexus, Audi or Nissan, it was a very unique driving experience. Today, you could blindfold drivers and they probably couldn't pick out the BMW.

There is a raft of options available on the F30 that weren't previously available that are going to cause these cars to have higher prices when they are so equipped. That is exactly why it's useful to look at comparably equipped past models to get a fair perspective on what is behind the higher prices of today's cars.

That people can't tell a BMW driving experience from that of other brands is not supported by the frequent threads posted here by new buyers expressing their excitement over how their car drives and stating they will never go back.

btw - it's MUCH LESS a case of BMWs driving like the competition than it is the competition driving more like a BMW.

Originally Posted by dtc100

The new MY C Class actually has some significant updates inside, which may explain why it is now the top seller in this segment.

If MY transition is to blame, the C Class transition seems much well executed.

The C Class didn't make a transition. It got a facelift.

Originally Posted by need4speed

The f30 is so evolutionary vis a vie the e90 there is nothing to make me want to run out and buy one. When the e9x came out and I compared it to my e46, I had to have one. Now, I really don't see much advantage. N4S

Every other redesign is more "revolutionary". This one is "evolutionary". This is BMW's stated SOP.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

And since the E90 sold so well, it's a matter of waiting for those millions of leases to expire and those owners to transition right into the F30. It's a great car, nothing about it would make an E90 owner unhappy, quite the opposite in fact, BMW will have a huge conversion rate. The biggest group of potential F30 owners are presently in E90 leases.

BJ

This is true.

Originally Posted by The X Men

The C class was refresh for the 2012 model year and the A4 had a minor refresh for 2013. Keep in mind, a refresh is not the same as a redesign, it rarely generates as much increase in sales as a full redesign. Its almost like MB and Audi is sent in their AAA minor baseball team against BMW's major league team and MB and Audi have had some good innings.

fixed

Originally Posted by tturedraider

There is a raft of options available on the F30 that weren't previously available that are going to cause these cars to have higher prices when they are so equipped. That is exactly why it's useful to look at comparably equipped past models to get a fair perspective on what is behind the higher prices of today's cars.

That people can't tell a BMW driving experience from that of other brands is not supported by the frequent threads posted here by new buyers expressing their excitement over how their car drives and stating they will never go back.

btw - it's MUCH LESS a case of BMWs driving like the competition than it is the competition driving more like a BMW.

It doesn't matter if the higher prices are justified, if prices are higher, it could be driving away buyers.

I wouldn't take BFest anecdotes by new F30 owners to represent the overall car market, and whether BMWs still differentiate from the competition. Go to a Cadillac or Acura forum, it's full of the same types of comments from new owners.

When I drove the competition before buying my two BMWs, they lacked feel, were too soft, and weren't fun to drive enough to justify the high cost. So I think it's BMW moving toward the competition.

Originally Posted by Chris90

When I drove the competition before buying my two BMWs, they lacked feel, were too soft, and weren't fun to drive enough to justify the high cost. So I think it's BMW moving toward the competition.

Huh?? When did you buy your Bimmers?

Originally Posted by MacManVA

I currently own a 2012 Audi A4 Prestige S-Line fully loaded that I will be trading in when my 328xDrive arrives. A couple of things to keep in mind. If you look at the A4 sales for last year they where down most of the year and there was no Audi advertising for that model. This year the model has been refreshed and I have noticed a significant increase in the Audi advertising I see on TV and online. I'm sure both of those play into the increase in sales. Also, wasn't the MB C-Class refreshed before the new F30's? If so then they have had more time on the market.

The new MY C Class actually has some significant updates inside, which may explain why it is now the top seller in this segment.

If MY transition is to blame, the C Class transition seems much well executed.

I think you will start seeing more advertising when there is sufficient inventory.