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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:02 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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Inside Line "trashes" M5

basic premise is it's awesome and speedy but boring and isolated.. have we heard that before?

i have never for an M car

"But it basically comes down to this: Somehow the white coats in Munich made the 2013 BMW M5 more powerful and quicker and they've given it more grip, but they forgot something the emotion. Where's the excitement? Where's the visceral thrill? Where's the M5's sinister evil twin?

Oh, that's right, it's down the street at the Cadillac dealer. It's called the CTS-V."

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/201...and-video.html
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:19 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by highyo View Post
basic premise is it's awesome and speedy but boring and isolated.. have we heard that before?

i have never for an M car

"But it basically comes down to this: Somehow the white coats in Munich made the 2013 BMW M5 more powerful and quicker and they've given it more grip, but they forgot something the emotion. Where's the excitement? Where's the visceral thrill? Where's the M5's sinister evil twin?

Oh, that's right, it's down the street at the Cadillac dealer. It's called the CTS-V."

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/201...and-video.html
It's disappointing to say the least. When they now made every normal 5-series into a luxury power cruiser with no available factory options to really tighten it up you would hope that the M5 would be built for the purists but no, doesn't seem like that is the case. Just more of the same it seems.
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  #3  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:28 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It's disappointing to say the least. When they now made every normal 5-series into a luxury power cruiser with no available factory options to really tighten it up you would hope that the M5 would be built for the purists but no, doesn't seem like that is the case. Just more of the same it seems.
no purpose built M-car engines anymore either. that's sad
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  #4  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:17 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It's disappointing to say the least. When they now made every normal 5-series into a luxury power cruiser with no available factory options to really tighten it up you would hope that the M5 would be built for the purists but no, doesn't seem like that is the case. Just more of the same it seems.
solstice, test drive the M5 and let us have your views

ps review by one who had the E60 M5; modded even http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...662&highlight=

pps for the F80 M3

"HORSEPOWER / TORQUE

Regarding power output, the previously estimated 450HP figure is an overestimate. Instead, expect the horsepower output to be in ballpark of the current E90/E92 M3.

What will be increased greatly however, is the torque figure. The F80/F82's multi turbo inline 6 cylinder engine [recently exposed] will add approximately 100 lb-ft more torque over the current M3 (which outputs 295 lb-ft torque). This would put the new M3/M4 in the range of 395 lb-ft torque. There's nothing like forced induction for thrust!

WEIGHT

We were also glad to learn that all this extra torque will not go to waste. We've been reporting that the F80 M3 / F82 M4 will be lighter than the current M3, but how much lighter is what we all want to know. The great news is that the M engineers have targeted the E46 M3 weight in developing the F80/F82.

The E46 M3's curb weight is 3,415 lb, while the current E90 M3 and E92 M3 weigh 3,726 and 3,704 pounds, respectively. This would represent an approximate 300 pound weight reduction; great news for BMW enthusiasts who bemoan the increasing weight of cars in general. The caveat to keep in mind however, is that curb weight is calculated based on the total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment, and with the ever growing list of standard equipment and technology in late model cars, don't be surprised or disappointed if you don't see exactly 300 pounds shaved. What's important is that the E46 M3 weight is being used as a target, which in any scenario, should result in significant weight reduction for the new M3 and M4."

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=753936

Last edited by bm323; 10-04-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:32 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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That's a very depressing quote from the article. I can agree that the CTS-V is a good car, but it's too gaudy and the interior is not up to par with even a F30
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:36 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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That's a very depressing quote from the article. I can agree that the CTS-V is a good car, but it's too gaudy and the interior is not up to par with even a F30
but what you said sums it up nicely. up until very recently, this is what you would hear about BMWs, pedestrian interiors, but oh the driving dynamics. now an M-Car (an M-Car!!) is losing out on verve and pep to a Cadillac? is this bizarro world?

the next thing i'm going to hear is that the ferrari beats the porsche on reliability!
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:32 AM
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ChrisF01 ChrisF01 is offline
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That's a very depressing quote from the article. I can agree that the CTS-V is a good car, but it's too gaudy and the interior is not up to par with even a F30
As dumb as it sounds, what was a deal-killer for me was their stupid turn ignition switch. Why the heck couldn't they put a push button on the dash instead?? That thing looks so stupid.
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:41 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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I'm not surprised though. Disappointed yes but not surprised, it is pretty much what I expected. Something is not right in Munich these days.
highyo, I think you'll be very happy with your timing to get into a real M car. I'm not optimistic about the upcoming M3. We'll see though, it could be that messing with the M3s virtues is something too sacred even in the name of higher predicted sales and profit for an isolated techno softy.

Last edited by solstice; 10-04-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:46 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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I'm not surprised though. Disappointed yes but not surprised, it is pretty much what I expected. Something is not right in Munich these days.
highyo, I think you'll be very happy with your timing to get into a real M car. I'm not optimistic about the upcoming M3. We'll see though, it could be that messing with the M3s virtues is something too sacred even in the name of higher predicted sales and profit for an isolated techno softy.
some part of me believes that they won't mess up the new m3, especially because they are trying to bring down weight to e46 standards (think its like -300 pounds on base model?) but who knows. one thing is for sure, the sound and feel of that bespoke engine is gone forever.

and that is very very sad
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  #10  
Old 10-04-2012, 04:39 PM
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some part of me believes that they won't mess up the new m3, especially because they are trying to bring down weight to e46 standards (think its like -300 pounds on base model?) but who knows. one thing is for sure, the sound and feel of that bespoke engine is gone forever.

and that is very very sad
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i'm in the same boat. i don't think there can be a better car made than the m3 (and btw, many many many reviews will say the same thing). it feels like a bespoke suit
That's it. You use the word "bespoke" one more time, and you're out of the club.
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2012, 05:10 AM
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That's it. You use the word "bespoke" one more time, and you're out of the club.
it was the word of the day yesterday
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:42 PM
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I would have purchased the Cadillac CTS V Coupe but it was too triangular and lacked any semblance of utility. The Sedan just does not have the lines--too boring.

+1 on the Factory isolation of the F10. I love my car now but I changed wheels (HRE 20s), springs (ACS) and tuning (Dinan S2). I would have definitely preferred OEM all the way. With the weight and size of the M5, it is just an unlikely "sportscar." I have a Viper for that. It will be interesting to see what BMW takes away from the feedback it receives.
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  #13  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:52 PM
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I have a slightly different take...

Instead of bemoaning what the M5 is not, I prefer to celebrate it for what it is - an ultimate expression of a gentleman's rapid express - a sporty large four door GT, capable of great velocity, offering a luxury environment. Moreover, being a BMW, the M5 is still a value play - a lot of content for a not an unreasonable sum.

Cars are changing - look at the 991 v. 997 - more capable but less visceral la BMW M5. Slightly homogenized, less edgy, more luxury, enhanced efficiency and tech, is the new normal. I suspect we need to accommodate ourselves to this brave new reality. In a world increasingly dominated by a "green" vehicle psyche, and given the development costs of any new car, I toast BMW for having the courage to produce the M5.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:02 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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I have a slightly different take...

Instead of bemoaning what the M5 is not, I prefer to celebrate it for what it is - an ultimate expression of a gentleman's rapid express - a sporty large four door GT, capable of great velocity, offering a luxury environment. Moreover, being a BMW, the M5 is still a value play - a lot of content for a not an unreasonable sum.

Cars are changing - look at the 991 v. 997 - more capable but less visceral la BMW M5. Slightly homogenized, less edgy, more luxury, enhanced efficiency and tech, is the new normal. I suspect we need to accommodate ourselves to this brave new reality. In a world increasingly dominated by a "green" vehicle psyche, and given the development costs of any new car, I toast BMW for having the courage to produce the M5.
see this is where i disagree. i dont think that the M5 is the sporty large four door GT that you claim it to be. BMW invented this class of car. it used to be a 4 door sports car. you can argue that as cars get bigger/heavier/more luxurious, some of the inherrent sportiness falls away. i get that. but this is their wheelhouse. they INVENTED this niche. and now they are getting pushed out of the limelight by the Cadillac?

oh the irony
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:10 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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see this is where i disagree. i dont think that the M5 is the sporty large four door GT that you claim it to be. BMW invented this class of car. it used to be a 4 door sports car. you can argue that as cars get bigger/heavier/more luxurious, some of the inherrent sportiness falls away. i get that. but this is their wheelhouse. they INVENTED this niche. and now they are getting pushed out of the limelight by the Cadillac?

oh the irony
It still is a 4 door sports car. And Audi subsidized media nor your armchair commentary will change that.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:16 PM
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It still is a 4 door sports car. And Audi subsidized media nor your armchair commentary will change that.
my doth think the lady protests too much
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:22 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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see this is where i disagree. i dont think that the M5 is the sporty large four door GT that you claim it to be. BMW invented this class of car. it used to be a 4 door sports car. you can argue that as cars get bigger/heavier/more luxurious, some of the inherrent sportiness falls away. i get that. but this is their wheelhouse. they INVENTED this niche. and now they are getting pushed out of the limelight by the Cadillac?

oh the irony
Of course, you identify an essential truth - but the world is changing and I am trying to accommodate myself to this changing reality.

BTW I regard my M3 as perfect in terms of my needs and desires. I am certain the new M3 will be a more capable sports sedan but I am not certain if it will speak to my heart. I find the idea of keeping my e92 M3 for a long time increasingly very appealing. It's hard to top perfect.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:31 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Of course, you identify an essential truth - but the world is changing and I am trying to accommodate myself to this changing reality.

BTW I regard my M3 as perfect in terms of my needs and desires. I am certain the new M3 will be a more capable sports sedan but I am not certain if it will speak to my heart. I find the idea of keeping my e92 M3 for a long time increasingly very appealing. It's hard to top perfect.
i'm in the same boat. i don't think there can be a better car made than the m3 (and btw, many many many reviews will say the same thing). it feels like a bespoke suit
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:22 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
I have a slightly different take...

Instead of bemoaning what the M5 is not, I prefer to celebrate it for what it is - an ultimate expression of a gentleman's rapid express - a sporty large four door GT, capable of great velocity, offering a luxury environment. Moreover, being a BMW, the M5 is still a value play - a lot of content for a not an unreasonable sum.

Cars are changing - look at the 991 v. 997 - more capable but less visceral la BMW M5. Slightly homogenized, less edgy, more luxury, enhanced efficiency and tech, is the new normal. I suspect we need to accommodate ourselves to this brave new reality. In a world increasingly dominated by a "green" vehicle psyche, and given the development costs of any new car, I toast BMW for having the courage to produce the M5.
You are right on the mark.

What makes the M5 special is that it's a car that you are excited to drive on the streets. It's power and handling are perfectly honed for the Alpine roads, the mountains and hills, the city streets and the highways.

Is it the ultimate track car? No it isn't. The Ariel Atom is far better.

However this review is effectively judging the M5 by the wrong standards. It's like saying the Porsche 911 GT3 is rubbish because the Ariel Atom gives you more feel, more excitement, more connection to the road. But try driving an Ariel Atom to the office in the rain!

The M5 to me - is the best possible saloon car I would want to drive on public roads. And nothing comes close. You give me an example and I will tell you why it isn't as good.

Panamera - too quiet, lacks excitement, instrumentation is not good enough for driving at the limit (e.g. no shift indicators in HUD), steering wheel is too thin and not conducive to control.

CLS63 AMG - balance is not quite perfect. Doesn't corner as well. Also doesn't have good instrumentation. Transmission is too slow.

M3 - not particularly luxurious, jumpy over expansion joints, not fast enough.

E63 AMG - Ugly, and same issues as CLS63 AMG

S6 - AWD unable to deliver the same driving excitement. Where's the power sliding?

Cadillac CTS-V - haven't driven it and I have no intention of doing so. Its a smaller car and it looks like ****.

So having ruled out the sedan competition, you are left with sports cars. Well that's comparing apples and oranges isn't it?
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:28 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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You are right on the mark.

What makes the M5 special is that it's a car that you are excited to drive on the streets. It's power and handling are perfectly honed for the Alpine roads, the mountains and hills, the city streets and the highways.

Is it the ultimate track car? No it isn't. The Ariel Atom is far better.

However this review is effectively judging the M5 by the wrong standards. It's like saying the Porsche 911 GT3 is rubbish because the Ariel Atom gives you more feel, more excitement, more connection to the road. But try driving an Ariel Atom to the office in the rain!

The M5 to me - is the best possible saloon car I would want to drive on public roads. And nothing comes close. You give me an example and I will tell you why it isn't as good.

Panamera - too quiet, lacks excitement, instrumentation is not good enough for driving at the limit (e.g. no shift indicators in HUD), steering wheel is too thin and not conducive to control.

CLS63 AMG - balance is not quite perfect. Doesn't corner as well. Also doesn't have good instrumentation. Transmission is too slow.

M3 - not particularly luxurious, jumpy over expansion joints, not fast enough.

E63 AMG - Ugly, and same issues as CLS63 AMG

S6 - AWD unable to deliver the same driving excitement. Where's the power sliding?

Cadillac CTS-V - haven't driven it and I have no intention of doing so. Its a smaller car and it looks like ****.

So having ruled out the sedan competition, you are left with sports cars. Well that's comparing apples and oranges isn't it?
maz quatro, cadillac cts-v, e63 AMG, pana (again, looks? this is why bmw is losing this battle. the e39 was not attractive, nor was the e60)

lots of worthy competitors. guess it speaks to complacency, or more likely companies picking up the slack and filling the niche. but again, this is the first time i have heard an M car being trashed for under-enthusiasm. maybe it was "gas guzzler" or "too raw" or "not refined". but not this.

it's different. and an important distinction.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:31 PM
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maz quatro, cadillac cts-v, e63 AMG, pana (again, looks? this is why bmw is losing this battle. the e39 was not attractive, nor was the e60)

lots of worthy competitors. guess it speaks to complacency, or more likely companies picking up the slack and filling the niche. but again, this is the first time i have heard an M car being trashed for under-enthusiasm. maybe it was "gas guzzler" or "too raw" or "not refined". but not this.

it's different. and an important distinction.
Nah. It's one person's half baked opinion. Probably a cross dresser with unusual tastes.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:14 PM
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Despite its less power, Panamera GTS is much more exciting to drive than M5. Their sport-design steering is actually better than truck-size Msport steering on M5.

They should put M6 steering on M5. When they put Msport steering on M5, M5 does not feel special anymore.

Regarding the comments on M3, Luxury is never M cars' strong appeal. It's always its driving EXCITEMENT which sets it apart.

Driving excitement is not equal to fastest/quickest though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
You are right on the mark.

What makes the M5 special is that it's a car that you are excited to drive on the streets. It's power and handling are perfectly honed for the Alpine roads, the mountains and hills, the city streets and the highways.

Is it the ultimate track car? No it isn't. The Ariel Atom is far better.

However this review is effectively judging the M5 by the wrong standards. It's like saying the Porsche 911 GT3 is rubbish because the Ariel Atom gives you more feel, more excitement, more connection to the road. But try driving an Ariel Atom to the office in the rain!

The M5 to me - is the best possible saloon car I would want to drive on public roads. And nothing comes close. You give me an example and I will tell you why it isn't as good.

Panamera - too quiet, lacks excitement, instrumentation is not good enough for driving at the limit (e.g. no shift indicators in HUD), steering wheel is too thin and not conducive to control.

CLS63 AMG - balance is not quite perfect. Doesn't corner as well. Also doesn't have good instrumentation. Transmission is too slow.

M3 - not particularly luxurious, jumpy over expansion joints, not fast enough.

E63 AMG - Ugly, and same issues as CLS63 AMG

S6 - AWD unable to deliver the same driving excitement. Where's the power sliding?

Cadillac CTS-V - haven't driven it and I have no intention of doing so. Its a smaller car and it looks like ****.

So having ruled out the sedan competition, you are left with sports cars. Well that's comparing apples and oranges isn't it?
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  #23  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:19 PM
leewtech leewtech is offline
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The entire line is getting soft...for lack of a better word. Still love them, but that point and shoot feel is fading in just about all the models. My base 128i keeps the spirit alive with minimal electronic gizmos and good old direct hydraulic steering. But the wife's X3's electric steering just isn't the same. The sport programs help, but that is mostly software working the experience.

Still.....rather be in any BMW than anything else out there at the moment..
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:33 PM
Stealth8 Stealth8 is offline
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Again, love my F10, but had to modify it to get it "dialed in." Not to hijack th thread, but I have a new X3 Loaner now while my car is at the dealer and I must say that I am not impressed. For $30k it is a good car but I suspect it is closer to $45k+. For more than $30k, I would look to Toyota, Honda and Lexus (still Toyota) or maybe an Audi Q5 for this class of car. The X3 is spartan inside with bad seats and drives nothing like my previous X5 V8s. On the plus side, it does have more room than before.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:43 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth8 View Post
Again, love my F10, but had to modify it to get it "dialed in." Not to hijack th thread, but I have a new X3 Loaner now while my car is at the dealer and I must say that I am not impressed. For $30k it is a good car but I suspect it is closer to $45k+. For more than $30k, I would look to Toyota, Honda and Lexus (still Toyota) or maybe an Audi Q5 for this class of car. The X3 is spartan inside with bad seats and drives nothing like my previous X5 V8s. On the plus side, it does have more room than before.
If you think you're getting into a Q5 for $30k, keep dreaming.
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