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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:18 AM
8355adam 8355adam is offline
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Is Mike Miller Maintenance for me?

Im trying to get a reliable maintenance schedule for my 330i. I've read that mike miller is popular but could be outdated for my model. If it is outdated then what would you guys recommend and if mike miller is still good where the heck do you get a copy because everywhere i've searched has nothing.
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:20 AM
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Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
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E-mail Mike Miller at Bimmerfest magazine or through Roundel. He'll send it to you.

And, yeah, the plan should work well for your vehicle.
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:23 PM
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Mike Miller updates his "Old School Maintenance Schedule" regularly so I don't know why you think it might be outdated, especially for a 330i which is definitely an older, non-turbo model, so not a long of things to update there anyway.

As KT said above, e-mail Mike directly for the latest version. You can only get the Roundel magazine if you're a BMW CCA member. If you're not a member you should join...by clicking on my link below.
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:37 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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I know I won't be the most popular guy for saying this but I have seen no evidence to suggest following Mike Millers maintenance schedule does anything to increase the longevity of our vehicles.
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
I know I won't be the most popular guy for saying this but I have seen no evidence to suggest following Mike Millers maintenance schedule does anything to increase the longevity of our vehicles.
So what do you recommend?
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Last edited by laser; 10-16-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:52 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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So what do you recommend?
Following whatever maintenance schedule you feel comfortable with.
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:07 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by laser View Post
So what do you recommend?
I recommend following the schedule provided by the ame company who designed, engineered, tested and built your vehicle. If they don't know best I don't know who would.
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2012, 05:04 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Back to the point, the OP's question as to Mike Miller's advice...
Mike's advice will ensure that your car is as reliable as humanly possible for as long as possible. Is it overkill? Not if you plan to keep your car a long time, and also want to be sure that you can get into your car on any given day and leave for the opposite coast without worrying about whether you'll make it or not.
It's a pricey plan, too, but people are willing to pay for peace of mind. There are tens of thousands of BMW owners, probably the majority of new BMW owners, who have no problem with keeping their cars in primo condition.
Two examples (I won't be specific because Mike requests that his suggestions not be quoted on the internet, for obvious reasons): Radiator replacement and oxygen sensor replacement. Mike suggests that these very expensive items be automatically replaced at set mileage intervals even though there is nothing wrong with them! Why? Because he knows that they are going to fail eventually and failure could be a much greater inconvenience and expense. That's good enough reason for many people.
I own a garage and service many older and on-warranty BMWs. My plan may differ from Mike's, and it does in some significant ways, but in the end it's the owner's call when all the cards are on the table.
In closing I will make one more point. If I were taking a trip in a small plane, and Mike Miller were an airframe mechanic, I'd want my mechanic to be following his plan.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 10-16-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2012, 05:19 PM
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Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Back to the point, the OP's question as to Mike Miller's advice...
Mike's advice will ensure that your car is as reliable as humanly possible for as long as possible. Is it overkill? Not if you plan to keep your car a long time, and also want to be sure that you can get into your car on any given day and leave for the opposite coast without worrying about whether you'll make it or not.
It's a pricey plan, too, but people are willing to pay for peace of mind. There are tens of thousands of BMW owners, in fact probably the majority of new BMW owners, who have no problem with keeping their cars in primo condition.
Two examples (I won't be specific because Mike requests that his suggestions not be quoted on the internet, for obvious reasons): Radiator replacement and oxygen sensor replacement. Mike suggests that these very expensive items be automatically replaced at set mileage intervals even though there is nothing wrong with them! Why? Because he knows that they are going to fail eventually and failure could be a much greater inconvenience and expense. That's good enough reason for many people.
I own a garage and service many older and on-warranty BMWs. My plan may differ from Mike's, and it does in some significant ways, but in the end it's the owner's call when all the cards are on the table.
In closing I will make one more point. If I were taking a trip in a small plane, and Mike Miller were an airframe mechanic, I'd want my mechanic to be following his plan.
I do follow Mike Miller's schedule, for various reasons.

However, my own personal feeling is that his recommendations MIGHT help reduce engine/mechanical problems.

The monster in the closet with BMW is always going to involve electrical problems. That, and the failure of plastic parts (like my plastic fuel tank developing cracks) are what worries me. Changing oil and doing preventative work is probably not going to do much to head that stuff off.
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  #10  
Old 10-16-2012, 05:31 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
I do follow Mike Miller's schedule, for various reasons.

However, my own personal feeling is that his recommendations MIGHT help reduce engine/mechanical problems.

The monster in the closet with BMW is always going to involve electrical problems. That, and the failure of plastic parts (like my plastic fuel tank developing cracks) are what worries me. Changing oil and doing preventative work is probably not going to do much to head that stuff off.
You have no idea how right you are! I am for instance seeing a big surge in the number of VVT related problems.

The average shade tree mechanic is not going to have a chance at proper diagnostics, and won't have the tools to do the job even if he could diagnose the problem.

(Here's my quick over-the-phone diagnostic on any E9x 328 with rough start/ rough idle/ Check Engine Light; "Your cam angle sensor has crapped out. Which one? Wellll, we'll have to test for that... Just a minute and I'll connect you with the Financing Dep't and you can set up a payment plan.")
At least with a plastic part you can see the crack and subsequent fluid leak, and be fairly confident in figurig that the part is bad.
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2012, 05:37 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Back to the point, the OP's question as to Mike Miller's advice...
Mike's advice will ensure that your car is as reliable as humanly possible ...
It's a pricey plan, too, but people are willing to pay for peace of mind.
Two examples: Radiator replacement and oxygen sensor replacement.
Good words of reason (what? we're trying to reason with each other?)

Three points I'd like to make: On my E46 330xi, I replaced most of the cooling system at 100K. Didn't replace the pump, which was still good at 145K (water pump failures don't immediately toast the engine if you're half alive and watching the gauges). YMMV, but there's the other side of the bell curve, too.
I replaced all the tranny and diff fluids on Mike's schedule. My front diff broke. And I got rid of the car because the center diff was in the process of failing.
I changed oil at 5K-7.5K intervals, and the thing used a quart of oil in 1200-1500 miles at tradein. CVV worked perfectly. Still perfect compression, engine valvetrain was spotless.

Face it; parts are gonna break and many times insane maintenance regimes don't matter.
Having owned vintage ('77 530i and 320i) BMWs that needed more maintenance, I can assure you that todays are much more reliable, even if you just went with BMW's reccos.
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  #12  
Old 10-16-2012, 05:47 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Good words of reason (what? we're trying to reason with each other?)

Three points I'd like to make: On my E46 330xi, I replaced most of the cooling system at 100K. Didn't replace the pump, which was still good at 145K (water pump failures don't immediately toast the engine if you're half alive and watching the gauges). YMMV, but there's the other side of the bell curve, too.
I replaced all the tranny and diff fluids on Mike's schedule. My front diff broke. And I got rid of the car because the center diff was in the process of failing.
I changed oil at 5K-7.5K intervals, and the thing used a quart of oil in 1200-1500 miles at tradein. CVV worked perfectly. Still perfect compression, engine valvetrain was spotless.

Face it; parts are gonna break and many times insane maintenance regimes don't matter.
Having owned vintage ('77 530i and 320i) BMWs that needed more maintenance, I can assure you that todays are much more reliable, even if you just went with BMW's reccos.
True, and that's the fly in the ointment of Mike Miller's recommendations. He only knows what he knows, what he doesn't know is what nobody knows- which doodad, gizmo or whatchamacallit that didn't even exist 10 years ago is going to blow a transistor at midnight in the middle of a snowstorm?
The computers are in charge of our cars now, for better or worse. How many of us change our perfectly working hard drive, modem, or transformer just because they could fail tomorrow?
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2012, 05:51 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
True, and that's the fly in the ointment of Mike Miller's recommendations. He only knows what he knows, what he doesn't know is what nobody knows- which doodad, gizmo or whatchamacallit that didn't even exist 10 years ago is going to blow a transistor at midnight in the middle of a snowstorm?
The computers are in charge of our cars now, for better or worse. How many of us change our perfectly working hard drive, modem, or transformer just because they could fail tomorrow?
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it you who was recommending Mike Millers suggestion to replace parts before they fail so as not to have them fail at inopportune times?
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2012, 06:35 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
True, and that's the fly in the ointment of Mike Miller's recommendations. He only knows what he knows, what he doesn't know is what nobody knows- which doodad, gizmo or whatchamacallit that didn't even exist 10 years ago is going to blow a transistor at midnight in the middle of a snowstorm?
The computers are in charge of our cars now, for better or worse. How many of us change our perfectly working hard drive, modem, or transformer just because they could fail tomorrow?

Funny enough, this fellow did. I downloaded a SMART reader (reads on-drive diagnostics) and it indicated that, based on some statistics done by Google with their tens of thousands of hard drives, meant quick or imminent failure of my hard drive. Therefore, I bought a newer, bigger drive and cloned the old stuff onto the new one. The old drive is now on my external enclosure.
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:07 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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*******>*******>*******>********>********>********>
Originally Posted by DSXMachina
Yes, I did recommend Mike's schedule and often do. In context it was the right thing to suggest. I don't recommend it every time, and sometimes would strongly argue against parts of it. Back to the radiator example for instance. I have never recommended a customer change their non-leaking, non clogged radiator just because of mileage. But if that same customer told me they were driving to their new home in San Diego (from NH) with their elderly mom in the car, and their car had 120k on the clock and cost were no object (it isn't for many of my customers) I would suggest a new radiator, among other things.



These two statements seem at odds with one another. --sunny5280

I have never had someone tell me they were driving their elderly mom to San Diego in their ageing BMW. When they do I might recommend a radiator replacement before they hit the road. No conflict.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 10-16-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:19 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Quote:
*******>*******>*******>********>********>********>
Originally Posted by DSXMachina
Yes, I did recommend Mike's schedule and often do. In context it was the right thing to suggest. I don't recommend it every time, and sometimes would strongly argue against parts of it. Back to the radiator example for instance. I have never recommended a customer change their non-leaking, non clogged radiator just because of mileage. But if that same customer told me they were driving to their new home in San Diego (from NH) with their elderly mom in the car, and their car had 120k on the clock and cost were no object (it isn't for many of my customers) I would suggest a new radiator, among other things.



These two statements seem at odds with one another. --sunny5280

I have never had someone tell me they were driving their elderly mom to San Diego in their ageing BMW. When they do I might recommend a radiator replacement before they hit the road. No conflict.
The first statement essentially says you don't recommend the replacement of a perfectly good radiator merely based on mileage. The next sentence goes on to say you would do just that if the customer were taking an elderly parent across the country. Unless there's a connection between driving an elderly parent across the country and radiator failure the two statements are at odds. Whether you've actually had a customer state as much to you isn't a factor.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:24 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The first statement essentially says you don't recommend the replacement of a perfectly good radiator merely based on mileage. The next sentence goes on to say you would do just that if the customer were taking an elderly parent across the country. Unless there's a connection between driving an elderly parent across the country and radiator failure the two statements are at odds. Whether you've actually had a customer state as much to you isn't a factor.

There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:17 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
You might be better off hammering nails into your eyes than endure the pain of arguing with this poster.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:28 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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You might be better off hammering nails into your eyes than endure the pain of arguing with this poster.
I would agree as there is no correlation between the two. Thus to argue against me is to argue a position which is not true. Arguing something which is untrue is a foolish act whether it be against me or someone else. Glad you see that and are willing to help others understand it too.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:22 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
You might be better off hammering nails into your eyes than endure the pain of arguing with this poster.

I will not be trifled with! The elderly are a subject deserving of respect and admiration. Thus, the issue of their radiator failures shall be dealt with in a professional manner.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:11 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The first statement essentially says you don't recommend the replacement of a perfectly good radiator merely based on mileage. The next sentence goes on to say you would do just that if the customer were taking an elderly parent across the country. Unless there's a connection between driving an elderly parent across the country and radiator failure the two statements are at odds. Whether you've actually had a customer state as much to you isn't a factor.
Not going there sunny. Have a good evening.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:23 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by 8355adam View Post
Im trying to get a reliable maintenance schedule for my 330i. I've read that mike miller is popular but could be outdated for my model. If it is outdated then what would you guys recommend and if mike miller is still good where the heck do you get a copy because everywhere i've searched has nothing.

Ya can't have too much money, be too fit, or do too much preventative maint.

Email Mike - enjoy!

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  #23  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:46 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
There most certainly is a connection.

Good Lord.

Do you not see it?
No, I don't see it. Please show me how driving an elderly parent across the country increases the likelihood of a radiator failure.

Last edited by sunny5280; 10-16-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:40 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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No, I don't see it. Please show me how driving an elderly parent across the country increases the likelihood of a radiator failure.

This is self-evident. If you wish to take the risk, and that risk is high, I recommend you make the journey and document your results.

Taking two elderly parents, radiator problems are all but certain. Avoid traveling in Canada!
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:46 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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This is self-evident. If you wish to take the risk, and that risk is high, I recommend you make the journey and document your results.
I did just this last year with my parents. Went from Denver to Arizona in my 2001 X5 which had 125K miles, and the original radiator, on it. Ironically I did have work performed on the vehicle during the trip. But it wasn't on the radiator.
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