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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:56 PM
Colbert Colbert is offline
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Hurricane Sandy Total Loss...need advice

Had my brand new Black Sapphire 328xi for only 2 days, and it was flooded by Hurricane Sandy in my building's garage. Car was being financed and only had 48 miles on it. I have comprehensive coverage, however no gap insurance, and my insurance company is offering me $11000 than what I paid for it. That is a huge hit for a 48 hour old car. Does anyone have any advice on if I could fight this?
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:58 PM
Colbert Colbert is offline
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Sorry, $11000 less than what I paid
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:04 PM
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what!!!!!!!!!

you have to take an $11,000 hit on the car?????

I dont think there is much recourse here without gap insurance...make sure you get the gap insurance next time around.
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  #4  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:13 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
what!!!!!!!!!

you have to take an $11,000 hit on the car?????

I dont think there is much recourse here without gap insurance...make sure you get the gap insurance next time around.
Yes there is.

OP, it sounds like you may have to sue your insurance company. You need to talk to a lawyer ASAP. You should ba able to recover 100%, or very, very close, of your purchase price. Do NOT roll over. There is a thread going right now by a guy whose car was just totalled. Read the post near the end of the thread by the insurance agent.

btw - GAP coverage actually has nothing to do with your claim.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:44 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
what!!!!!!!!!

you have to take an $11,000 hit on the car?????

I dont think there is much recourse here without gap insurance...make sure you get the gap insurance next time around.

Yes. Evidently, OP drove it off the lot.

I believe OP should sue, naming FEMA, Hurricane Sandy, the National Weather Service, his building's owner, local government, and Obama.

Obtain a court date and he need only show up for the award, sure to be far in excess of $11k.

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 11-13-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:05 PM
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SamS SamS is offline
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Ouch, seriously no gap insurance? I honestly don't think you'll have any options. Unless you want to try to pursue something under your homeowner's policy. But even that would be a long shot.
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:20 PM
Colbert Colbert is offline
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Honestly, this is my first vehicle, and I had no idea what gap insurance was. It wasn't offered at the dealership nor by the financing company, so i was completely blind...
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2012, 12:38 PM
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Yobyot Yobyot is offline
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Honestly, this is my first vehicle, and I had no idea what gap insurance was. It wasn't offered at the dealership nor by the financing company, so i was completely blind...
You live in NY, right? "Gap" insurance typically covers the difference between replacement value and actual cash value. ACV is probably what your policy covers.

Other posters are correct: you need to not roll over. I live in Massachusetts. Here, insurance companies are required to make a good faith offer within, I think, 10 business days. This leads many insurers to promote their "fast" claim service -- which is really just an attempt to steamroll people to take their first offer. In fact, many people don't know that in Mass., you can (and should) negotiate and if you can prove the first offer wasn't a good-faith offer, you can even sue the insurance company.

Whatever you do, keep in mind that you don't have to accept your insurance company's estimate of ACV. Like you, a reasonable person who had a new car with <50 miles on it would not expect to settle for "ACV" as determined by the insurance company.

Due to Sandy losses, your insurer probably is praying you'll take their offer. Just say no.

BTW, would you be willing to shame your insurer by naming them here? I'd like to know who offers someone whose been victimized by a 100-year storm a pittance on a new car.
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2012, 12:53 PM
tlm999 tlm999 is offline
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There is a good reason why some insurance companies advertise on TV that they will save you hundreds of dollars on car insurance. It appears you just found one of those reasons. Not all insurance is created equal. Somewhere in the reams of documents you signed it probably states how the value is determined. My insurance company pays full replacement for the first 15 months. Not all do this.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:20 PM
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What grounds does he sue on?

He might be able to negotiate closer to a $5k delta on what he owes vs what they give him. They offer gap insurance for just this scenario.
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  #11  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:20 PM
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I'll be sure to consult a lawyer ASAP
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:50 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Wow, a quick google search turned up these two articles worth reading:

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/insu...t-for-you.aspx

http://www.progressive.com/understan...p_insuran.aspx

It seems like gap insurance is almost a requirement for the first couple of years of ownerships. One of the articles recommends it only if you don't have a large down payment, as if that changes the amount you will lose. It doesn't. The only difference is you are losing money you have already paid versus money you will have to pay.

Really, a car loses 25-30% in the first year? OK, but in the first week? Shouldn't the loss be closer to 10%? You should find out the market value of a similar car that has been used only at most a couple of months.

Maybe the insurance company looked at the cash value of a one year old car with typical mileage, and a lawyer might be able to argue that they should use a different metric for a car this new.

Good luck.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:51 PM
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First off, your insurance company is flat out trying to rip you off. Who is your insurer? This is a really good example of the difference in insurance companies. Insurance is not just a generic product across the board. All insurance companies are not the same.

Second, the posts here indicate a lack of understanding of what GAP insurance is. GAP insurance does nothing more than pay the difference between the loan balance and the value of the car at the time of the loss. Let's say you borrowed 100% of the purchase cost, say $49,000. Say a year from now the loan balance is $40,000, but the actual cash value has dropped to $38,000. GAP insurance would pay the $2,000 difference.

Your situation is not typical. At two days old with 48 miles your car is still worth, for insurance replacement purposes, 100% of the sale price you paid.

Again, I'll refer you to the ongoing thread by the member whose virtually new car was just totalled. The circumstances are different, but the issue is the same.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 11-10-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:57 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
First off, your insurance company is flat out trying to rip you off. Who is your insurer? This is a really good example of the difference in insurance companies. Insurance is not just a generic product across the board. All insurance companies are not the same.

Second, the posts here indicate a lack of understanding of what GAP insurance is. GAP insurance does nothing more than pay the difference between the loan balance and the value of the car at the time of the loss. Let's say you borrowed 100% of the purchase cost, say $49,000. Say a year from now the loan balance is $40,000, but the actual cash value has dropped to $38,000. GAP insurance would pay the $2,000 difference.

Your situation is not typical. At two days old with 48 miles your car is still worth, for insurance replacement purposes, 100% of the sale price you paid.

Again, I'll refer you to the ongoing thread by the member whose virtually new car was just totalled. The circumstances are different, but the issue is the same.
where is this thread? link?
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:34 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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where is this thread? link?
I'm on my phone and can't post the link. "Total loss" by NeverOddorEven
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
First off, your insurance company is flat out trying to rip you off. Who is your insurer? This is a really good example of the difference in insurance companies. All insurance companies are not the same.

Second, the posts here indicate a lack of understanding of what GAP insurance is. GAP insurance does nothing more than pay the difference between the loan balance and the value of the car at the time of the loss. Let's say you borrowed 100% of the purchase cost, say $49,000. Say a year from now the loan balance is $40,000, but the actual cash value has dropped to $38,000. GAP insurance would pay the $2,000 difference.

Your situation is not typical. At two days old with 48 miles your car is still worth, for insurance replacement purposes, 100% of the sale price you paid.

Again, I'll refer you to the ongoing thread by the member whose virtually new car was just totalled. The circumstances are different, but the issue is the same.
I am very clear about what GAP coverage is, but you don't seem to be comprehending the situation as the OP is describing to us.

Assume he borrowed 100% of the purchase cost, let's say $45K. Add his financing cost of $2K, and now he has a loan of $47K that is outstanding. The insurance company looks at auction prices of used 2013 F30s and comes up with a value of $36K. Sure, that is low and he should fight it. $47K owed on his note vs. insurance evaluation of $36K is that $11K gap. And GAP insurance would cover that! He could probably fight that $36K valuation, and maybe get it up to $42K. But he's still going to be left with a gap of the insurance valuation vs. what he owes on the note. Maybe $5K.

You make an incorrect assumption that a 2 day old car is worth 100% of the purchase price. Every try to sell your 2 day old car to a dealer across town for the same price you just bought it for?
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:08 PM
golovko golovko is offline
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I am very clear about what GAP coverage is, but you don't seem to be comprehending the situation as the OP is describing to us.

Assume he borrowed 100% of the purchase cost, let's say $45K. Add his financing cost of $2K, and now he has a loan of $47K that is outstanding. The insurance company looks at auction prices of used 2013 F30s and comes up with a value of $36K. Sure, that is low and he should fight it. $47K owed on his note vs. insurance evaluation of $36K is that $11K gap. And GAP insurance would cover that! He could probably fight that $36K valuation, and maybe get it up to $42K. But he's still going to be left with a gap of the insurance valuation vs. what he owes on the note. Maybe $5K.

You make an incorrect assumption that a 2 day old car is worth 100% of the purchase price. Every try to sell your 2 day old car to a dealer across town for the same price you just bought it for?
He described GAP insurance correctly. You disagreed and described it exactly the same way. I'm confused?
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:19 PM
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SamS SamS is offline
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He described GAP insurance correctly. You disagreed and described it exactly the same way. I'm confused?
Of course he did, and I agree with his description. I disagree with his assessment that GAP insurance is not applicable to this situation, and that the $11k number is somehow grounds for a lawsuit. My example shows clearly how they could have arrived at that $11k. Not saying that it's fair, rather that it is plausible based on math.

Last edited by SamS; 11-10-2012 at 08:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:57 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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You make an incorrect assumption that a 2 day old car is worth 100% of the purchase price. Every try to sell your 2 day old car to a dealer across town for the same price you just bought it for?
Two things:
  • I would be shocked if a dealer offered him $11K less on trade than he paid for the car. Especially given it had only 48 miles on it.
  • Dealers buy cars at trade in value and sell at retail value. The insurance company should be basing their assessment at retail value.
At $11K that represents 22% (assuming $50K purchase price) depcreciation in two days and 48 miles. That is absolutely ridiculous. While I don't expect him to get 100% of the value of the car I don't expect him to take 22% depreciation on it within two days.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:37 AM
JohnnyO JohnnyO is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Two things:

At $11K that represents 22% (assuming $50K purchase price) depcreciation in two days and 48 miles. That is absolutely ridiculous. While I don't expect him to get 100% of the value of the car I don't expect him to take 22% depreciation on it within two days.
If we take the money out of the picture, and instead say, "I'd like my car replaced with the same car I lost." (ie, replacement value) Would there be a dealer that would or could find a similarly equipped car for 11K less than what was lost? I'd guess not, and so would expect "replacement value" to mean I could get the same car in the same condition (ie, fewer than a couple of hundred miles).

But I don't know the specifics of the OP's policy.
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  #21  
Old 11-11-2012, 12:53 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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A question about gap insurance: I understand how it works for financed cars. But what if you paid cash? Does gap cover the cost between replacement value and ACV in that case as well?

To the OP, it seems like the first thing you have to fight on is the ridiculous depreciation the insurance company came up with. Their amount makes sense for a one year old car, but not a 2-day old one. Perhaps your dealer can provide them actual data on how much a car used as little as yours can go for. My guess is the loss should not go beyond 10%. Anything you cannot recoup might be counted as a loss, and hence a deduction, for tax purposes.

Btwy, I hope everyone who has been a victim of this storm is slowly recovering. There are quite a few of you here.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:37 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
A question about gap insurance: I understand how it works for financed cars. But what if you paid cash?
GAP insurance does one thing - it pays the difference between the loan balance on a financed car and the settlement amount paid by the insurance company when the settlement amount is less than the loan balance. That is the ONLY thing GAP insurance does. There is no such thing as GAP insurance, in any way, shape or form for a car that is paid for in cash.




It is standard operating procedure across the auto insurance industry that the settlement paid includes tax, title, and license based on the value the insurance company pays for the car, even with chintzy insurance companies.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 11-11-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Colbert Colbert is offline
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Thanks for all the info guys, its really appreciated. I'm going to start negotiating with them tomorrow, and I also applied for possible FEMA assistance. Hopefully things will work out to just a minimum loss
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:37 PM
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ish ish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post

btw - GAP coverage actually has nothing to do with your claim.
This delta in price is EXACTLY what gap insurance is for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I am very clear about what GAP coverage is, but you don't seem to be comprehending the situation as the OP is describing to us.

Assume he borrowed 100% of the purchase cost, let's say $45K. Add his financing cost of $2K, and now he has a loan of $47K that is outstanding.
You make an incorrect assumption that a 2 day old car is worth 100% of the purchase price.
If his loan was for 45k all he owes is 45k + 2days worth of interest. Not the full amount of interest due over the life of the loan.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:39 PM
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There's absolutely room for negotiation here, the OP should be able to close the gap (no pun intended) to less than $5k with adequate negotiation. Please do share the insurance company so that I know who to stay away from!
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