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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 11-24-2012, 08:09 PM
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Motor Trend comparo: 1st Cadillac ATS, 2nd C350, 3rd 335i



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The latest episode of "Head 2 Head" from Motor Trend is a battle of the little luxury sixes, looking to see which of these $50,000 sport sedans, all equipped with automatic transmissions, can lay the largest claim to your money: the 321-horsepower, six-speed Cadillac ATS 3.6, the 302-horsepower, seven-speed Mercedes-Benz C350 Sport or the 300-horsepower, eight-speed BMW 335i.

Ouch. 335i is described as rubbery and not fun to drive.

I know Motor Trend is a rag, but jeez, losing to a C350? That's almost worse than losing to the ATS.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/24/m...illac-ats-3-6/
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Last edited by tim330i; 11-26-2012 at 06:09 AM.
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More about Motor Trend comparo: 1st Cadillac ATS, 2nd C350, 3rd 335i

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  #2  
Old 11-24-2012, 08:29 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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I can't believe they don't have the specs of the specific car tested written down somewhere. SO many magazines do that it drives me crazy.

Did it have the dynamic handling package?

Did it have summer or all-season tires?
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2012, 08:44 PM
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BMW F32/F30 = rebadged Cadillac Cimarron
Mercedes C350 = rebadged BMW 3 Series E92
Cadillac ATS = rebadged combination Nissan 370Z, Mercedes C350 and BMW 3 Series E92

Oh how the mighty have fallen! First the 5 Series and now the 3 Series.

I foresee the average age of BMW owners growing older in the near future.
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Last edited by beden1; 11-27-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:08 PM
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I think BMW should have left the 3 and 5 Series alone, and continued their traditions as sport sedans. If they wanted to attract buyers who want a more comfortable ride, and things like Luxury line models, then they should have introduced that with the 4 Series, the redesigned 6 Series and the 7 Series.
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:17 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I think BMW should have left the 3 and 5 Series alone, and continued their traditions as sport sedans. If they wanted to attract buyers who want a more comfortable ride, and things like Luxury line models, then they should have introduced that with the 4 Series, the redesigned 6 Series and the 7 Series.
I think BMW knows what it's doing. They have decades of sales information, millions of datapoints, they know how to build the precise cars that their customers want.

Last time I looked, the F30 was performing very well, the MB is no different than it was in years past, and the ATS isn't selling.

Every curve, every dimension, every feature on the F30 is there because that's what BMW's customers told them they wanted. Do not question the car or it's intended buyers. You aren't one of them. You're not the target audience. If you liked the car, it would be a shock. The fact that you detest it is precisely what's supposed to happen.

BJ
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Ouch. 335i is described as rubbery and not fun to drive.

I know Motor Trend is a rag, but jeez, losing to a C350? That's almost worse than losing to the ATS.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/24/m...illac-ats-3-6/
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
BMW F32/F30 = rebadged Cadillac Cimarron
Mercedes C350 = rebadged BMW 3 Series E92
Cadillac ATS = rebadged combination Nissan 370Z, Mercedes C350 and BMW 3 Series E92

Oh how the mighty have fallen! First the 5 Series and now the 3 Series.

I foresee the average age of BMW owners growing older in the near future.
And yet again, E90 owners are heard from, trying to justify why they drive old, out of style used cars that any 15 year old can buy with his summer job money.

I have a great idea. Since you hate the F30 so much, don't buy one.

BJ
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And yet again, E90 owners are heard from, trying to justify why they drive old, out of style used cars that any 15 year old can buy with his summer job money.
I have a great idea. Since you hate the F30 so much, don't buy one.

BJ
Just checked KBB for the value of my car with 5,000 miles. It's still worth more than you paid for yours. $50,603
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:19 PM
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Just checked KBB for the value of my car with 5,000 miles. It's still worth more than you paid for yours. $50,603
Sure, you put up an ad at that price, tell me how many offers you get. Low mileage doesn't matter when the car looks as old as that.

BJ
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:25 AM
woodswatchco woodswatchco is offline
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Good luck getting full trade on your car. The dealers are out of control these days. I was offered "rough book" value from four different dealers for my mint condition Audi A4. Evenfrom the Audi dealer to trade in on a new A4. I was told that the reason is that they all now go by "auction prices" instead of any book that is available to consumers. Such a joke.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And yet again, E90 owners are heard from, trying to justify why they drive old, out of style used cars that any 15 year old can buy with his summer job money.

BJ
You are paying less for your F30 L328i than your E90 M328i, so your new F30 L328i is cheaper to have.
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  #11  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:50 AM
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You are paying less for your F30 L328i than your E90 M328i, so your new F30 L328i is cheaper to have
I'm just a better negotiator and leased the car in a very competitive environment (NYC) vs a very uncompetitive one (NH).

BJ
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  #12  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:19 AM
woodswatchco woodswatchco is offline
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I agree that all these guys that say the E90 is so much better than the F30 just don't have the cash for a new car. The new "lines" offer buyers the choice of what they want. This is the #1 reason that I left Audi for BMW. Audi offers the least horsepower in the class, no special colors, no body kit, no special wheels, no rear wheel drive, no option to delete sunroof, etc. Mercedes doesn't even offer a manual in the C250! The 328i may have softened a bit but it has also been improved in a million other ways. It is still the best sports sedan out there and you can choose which flavor you want instead of "one size fits all".



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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And yet again, E90 owners are heard from, trying to justify why they drive old, out of style used cars that any 15 year old can buy with his summer job money.

I have a great idea. Since you hate the F30 so much, don't buy one.

BJ
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  #13  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
I agree that all these guys that say the E90 is so much better than the F30 just don't have the cash for a new car..
OMG our dirty little secret is out!

CA
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  #14  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
I agree that all these guys that say the E90 is so much better than the F30 just don't have the cash for a new car. The new "lines" offer buyers the choice of what they want.
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  #15  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
I agree that all these guys that say the E90 is so much better than the F30 just don't have the cash for a new car. The new "lines" offer buyers the choice of what they want. This is the #1 reason that I left Audi for BMW. Audi offers the least horsepower in the class, no special colors, no body kit, no special wheels, no rear wheel drive, no option to delete sunroof, etc. Mercedes doesn't even offer a manual in the C250! The 328i may have softened a bit but it has also been improved in a million other ways. It is still the best sports sedan out there and you can choose which flavor you want instead of "one size fits all".
+1

Precisely. The definition of "Ultimate Driving Machine" includes the entire driving experience, not just the part where the rubber meets the road.

To the average 3 Series consumer, a quiet cabin, greater legroom, a bigger trunk, an upgraded audio system, a standard LCD screen, free Bluetooth, a classier interior, easy-to-buy "lines", and all the other goodies is what makes the experience better.

There's nothing wrong with performance enthusiasm. It's an awesome hobby so long as you target the right car for it. What the 3 Series used to be in 1995 and what it is in 2013 are two different things, time for the autocross crowd to focus on the 1 Series, the Roadster, the ATS, whatever it is that meets their criteria. The 3 Series is no longer that car.

BJ
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  #16  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
BMW F32/F30 = rebadged Cadillac Cimarron
Mercedes C350 = rebadged BMW 3 Series E92
Cadillac ATS = rebadged combination Nissan 370Z, Mercedes C350 and BMW 3 Series E92

Oh how the mighty have fallen! First the 5 Series and now the 3 Series.

I foresee the average age of BMW owners growing older in the near future.
You should of seen this coming when they introduced the F01 7 series. It was only a matter of time that it trickled down the line. The average age of BMW owners is somewhere around 47. I think BMW is exactly where it wants to be for awhile. They've completely changed their cars to signify this.
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  #17  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:13 PM
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I can't believe they don't have the specs of the specific car tested written down somewhere. SO many magazines do that it drives me crazy.

Did it have the dynamic handling package?

Did it have summer or all-season tires?
It doesn't matter.

Motor Trend is in the magazine business. You sell a lot more magazines when you print a controversial story, and there's nothing more predictable than BMW winning a sport sedan comparo.

The F30 is a bigger, softer version of it's prior forms and it's to be expected that so-called "enthusiast" rags won't see the value in it. BMW has built the car to the specs that it's customers want, and clearly their customers want a softer ride with a boatload of creature comforts. No such comparo for that.

BJ
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:35 PM
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I can't believe they don't have the specs of the specific car tested written down somewhere. SO many magazines do that it drives me crazy.

Did it have the dynamic handling package?

Did it have summer or all-season tires?
I just watched the review.

The first 60% of the review deals with infotainment systems, and the BMW blew away the Mercedes and destroyed the Cadillac.

The last 40% of the review deals with driving dynamics, and the reviewer says that the Cadillac drives better in the curves than it does in a straight line, the Cadillac has a harsh ride that Cadillac customers will not appreciate, and the Cadillac needs a new transmission. So, of course, Cadillac wins. LOL.

All that's needed to make enthusiast magazines happy is a car that's not good to drive the way normal people drive it- on city streets and on the highway. They bring three cars to a canyon and declare the flawed car with no customer base the winner. What a scam.

But it'll sell magazines, and that's what's important.

BJ
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  #19  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:39 PM
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You all do know that the 3 series the ATS was based on was the E46 right? Check out "Competitive Benchmarking" section in the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_ATS

More articles from MT interviewing Cadillac

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows...ts_first_look/

The review hits on what the previous 3 series enthusiast owners feedback has been on the F30.

Great thing is that BMW M Performance has products that can get you back to the older 3 series feel. It's a matter of time before they come out with a BMW M Performance package.

Last edited by av98; 11-24-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:41 PM
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You all do know that the 3 series the ATS was based on was the E46 right?

The review has been hitting the forum readers previous 3 series enthusiast owners feedback.

Great thing is that BMW M Performance has products that can get you back to the older 3 series feel. It's a matter of time before they come out with a BMW M Performance package.
Yeah, The M Sport stuff will help make the steering feel go from 'light and boring' to 'give your muscles a work out and boring'.
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  #21  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by av98 View Post
You all do know that the 3 series the ATS was based on was the E46 right?

The review hits on what the previous 3 series enthusiast owners feedback has been on the F30.

Great thing is that BMW M Performance has products that can get you back to the older 3 series feel. It's a matter of time before they come out with a BMW M Performance package.
The ultimate goal of a sport sedan is to sell millions of units to happy customers. The ATS isn't selling, the Mercedes has plateaued, and the F30 is thriving. All this other rhetoric about "sporty dynamics" matters only to a very small niche of people.

Motor Trend spent 60% of the video talking about infotainment systems. The headline should have been "Infotainment Comparo - BMW By A Landslide" on two accounts: First, it would have been a more honest representation of this bogus comparo, Second, infotainment systems mean more to the average buyer in this segment than steering feel by a ratio of about 100:1.

BJ
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The ultimate goal of a sport sedan is to sell millions of units to happy customers. The ATS isn't selling, the Mercedes has plateaued, and the F30 is thriving. All this other rhetoric about "sporty dynamics" matters only to a very small niche of people.

Motor Trend spent 60% of the video talking about infotainment systems. The headline should have been "Infotainment Comparo - BMW By A Landslide" on two accounts: First, it would have been a more honest representation of this bogus comparo, Second, infotainment systems mean more to the average buyer in this segment than steering feel by a ratio of about 100:1.

BJ
Sadly, every sales person I drove with for any BMW test drive do confirm that potential buyers are more concerned about rear view cameras and the features of the NAV vs how the car drives. Guess that's what sells and is shaping BMW, sadly we will all be driving Lexus type cars in the future...
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:53 PM
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Sadly, every sales person I drove with for any BMW test drive do confirm that potential buyers are more concerned about rear view cameras and the features of the NAV vs how the car drives. Guess that's what sells and is shaping BMW, sadly we will all be driving Lexus type cars in the future...
There's always Porsche. I hope to own a Cayman one day. Driving pleasure maximized to it's fullest.
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:02 PM
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sorry but part of why i buy a car depends on looks too. the benz on the inside is still ancient, i can't get past the ATS's ugly dated body, and i would get the 335 in a heartbeat. followed by the benz, and stick in a volvo (yes i said volvo) or audi before the ATS. all in the same class of course.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:04 PM
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There's always Porsche. I hope to own a Cayman one day. Driving pleasure maximized to it's fullest.
You're already driving one of the best all around performance cars on the planet.
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