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X1 E84 (2011 - current)
The new to the US BMW X1 will arrive at BMW dealers in the fall of 2012 as a 2013 model year. Get your X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or get the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i dDrive.

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  #1  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:49 PM
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greyX1 greyX1 is offline
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Throttle Hesitation - DRIVING US NUTS!!!

OK, we have had our X1 a few months, and it's really a second car, but in the few (1500) miles we have driven it we have been repeatedly honked at and been in a couple of close calls because of the stupid throttle hesitation. There is always about a 1 sec lag between pushing down on the pedal and the engine kicking in. It doesn't matter if you push down harder on the throttle, because then when it does kick in it is just more throttle.

My suspicion is that this delay has something to do with the Auto Start Stop (code named ASS for a reason), which we had the dealer default to off, so we don't have to deal with it. I have a feeling that by this time next year, the ASS function will be no more.

So are other people having the same problem? Or do we need to take the car back to the dealer to be inspected?

Seriously, a full second between pressing on the pedal and having the car respond!
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:35 PM
2625 2625 is offline
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It has been discussed back in October. I have the same problem but did not force the dealer to look into it. Just worried that they might make it worst if they dont know the fix.
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 2625 View Post
It has been discussed back in October. I have the same problem but did not force the dealer to look into it. Just worried that they might make it worst if they dont know the fix.
Yeah I read the thread - that was dealing with what sounds like an actual misfire or hesitation under acceleration when the car was already moving. I hoping to find out if everyone experiences this pretty consistent this one-second delay when accelerating from a stop with ASS off, in D. I'd like to know if there's a problem with our X1 or if BMW just blew it and programmed every ECU in hopes of saving fuel (which in this case seems to do the opposite).
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:04 PM
nospam nospam is offline
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This has nothing to do with ASS.

The throttle delay is programmed by BMW for your own protection (fuel conservation).

Throttle response is worst in ECO PRO. It should be better in D/Drive and best in S/Sport.

There are also aftermarket solutions which improve throttle response.
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nospam View Post
This has nothing to do with ASS.

The throttle delay is programmed by BMW for your own protection (fuel conservation).

Throttle response is worst in ECO PRO. It should be better in D/Drive and best in S/Sport.

There are also aftermarket solutions which improve throttle response.

We never drive in ECO PRO. How does BMW figure it's saving fuel when you end up stomping down on the accelerator even more during the delay, then having the car take off unexpectedly when the ECU finally decides to send fuel to the engine?
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:27 AM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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Originally Posted by greyX1 View Post
We never drive in ECO PRO. How does BMW figure it's saving fuel when you end up stomping down on the accelerator even more during the delay, then having the car take off unexpectedly when the ECU finally decides to send fuel to the engine?
It's not BMW; they're just placating the regulators. It's the EPA and DOT and their byzantine rules that are the issue. I'm sure auto makers get credit for these features in the reported EPA mileage numbers, even if drivers systematically ignore or circumvent them.

At some point, all of this technology is actually taking away from the driving experience. While up in Seattle last weekend, I borrowed my friend's 1996 BMW 325Cic for the weekend. What a phenomenally fun car! With only a 5-speed manual, 189 horsepower, and weighing ~3,000 pounds, it was the most fun BMW I've driven in years. No "Eco Mode", no hesitation, no technological gimmicks.

-James
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2013, 06:32 AM
Perlova Perlova is offline
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Originally Posted by greyX1 View Post

So are other people having the same problem? Or do we need to take the car back to the dealer to be inspected?

Seriously, a full second between pressing on the pedal and having the car respond!

Phew... glad to hear that everyone is experiencing this issue. I though I was beginning to lose feeling in by right foot.

I does make it tough to accelerate smoothly from a stop. I hate those jackrabbit starts.
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  #8  
Old 01-01-2013, 07:56 AM
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Have a read of the sticky in the X3 forum. Wonder if it is related?
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  #9  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:57 AM
nospam nospam is offline
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I'm trying to tell you folks that this is due to drive-by-wire and has been the case with BMWs in some form for close to 10 years.

This solution is for the 6 cylinder non-turbo models: http://burgertuning.com/BMS_Power_Box.html

I confirmed with BMS that their stage 1 N20 tune includes throttle remapping: http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_performance_Tuner.html

Their N55 tunes address this as well.

Last edited by nospam; 01-01-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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  #10  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:09 AM
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greyX1 greyX1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nospam View Post
I'm trying to tell you folks that this is due to drive-by-wire and has been the case with BMWs in some form for close to 10 years.

This solution is for the 6 cylinder non-turbo models: http://burgertuning.com/BMS_Power_Box.html

I confirmed with BMS that their stage 1 N20 tune includes throttle remapping: http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_performance_Tuner.html

Their N55 tunes address this as well.
done - i'm buying it. i almost don't like driving the car anymore.
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  #11  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:36 AM
nospam nospam is offline
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Move your shifter lever over to the left, sport mode should offer some improvement.

I am installing the BMS Stage 1 once the break-in period has ended.
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  #12  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by nospam View Post
Move your shifter lever over to the left, sport mode should offer some improvement.

I am installing the BMS Stage 1 once the break-in period has ended.
The problem with DS is the shifts happen at higher RPM. even wen driving lighly, which definitely drops MPG.

I just ordered the BMS unit
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  #13  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:41 AM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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I bet the 35i models don't do it since they have the 6spd auto
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  #14  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
I bet the 35i models don't do it since they have the 6spd auto
The delay happens before the transmission even sees any torque. The engine sits quietly for a full second after depressing the accelerator before responding at all, so why would it be different with the 3.0L/6sp? Same ECU I bet. Anyone with the 3.0 see this too?

Expecting the BMS unit in 2-5 days... I'll report back in a new post after the install, hopefully on the weekend. We're at about 2k miles now, so I feel comfortable changing the maps a bit. Won't drive it too hard though, I promise! Even if the unit only remapped this stupid drive-by-wire delay, I would be happy...
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:05 AM
HotRodW HotRodW is offline
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I'm amazed that BMW refuses to address this issue. They may have good intentions with throttles that fight back, runflat tires and ASS, but the features detract from the driving experience so much it has to have an effect on repeat sales. Should you really have to go to the aftermarket to get decent throttle response? On a BMW?!?!
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:43 PM
cblandin cblandin is offline
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Originally Posted by HotRodW View Post
I'm amazed that BMW refuses to address this issue. They may have good intentions with throttles that fight back, runflat tires and ASS, but the features detract from the driving experience so much it has to have an effect on repeat sales. Should you really have to go to the aftermarket to get decent throttle response? On a BMW?!?!
This is definitely true for me. When we test drove the X3, Q5 and Volvo XC60 the X3 had such horrible tip-in it was a huge black mark against it. We ended up with the Volvo (traded in our 530i for it). This was before the X3's tip-in software fix was released this past spring. Even now, that fix seems to be only a partial fix...tough to tell over on the X3 forum if it has stuck.
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:10 PM
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I recently test drove an SDrive X1, an xDrive 35i X1, and a loaded M Sport 35i X3 and I remember being surprised by the drive by wire lag on the SDrive and X3 ( the X3 really lurched too). I know that the drive by wire programming is separate from the transmission but the X1 35i with the six speed did not leave me feeling like there was the same dead zone in the pedal/throttle lag or lurching, perhaps it is just different programming. I drove in manual mode/sport with all three
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:37 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyX1 View Post
The delay happens before the transmission even sees any torque. The engine sits quietly for a full second after depressing the accelerator before responding at all, so why would it be different with the 3.0L/6sp? Same ECU I bet. Anyone with the 3.0 see this too?

Expecting the BMS unit in 2-5 days... I'll report back in a new post after the install, hopefully on the weekend. We're at about 2k miles now, so I feel comfortable changing the maps a bit. Won't drive it too hard though, I promise! Even if the unit only remapped this stupid drive-by-wire delay, I would be happy...
Ummm actually it has a LOT to do with the transmission. My X5d doesn't delay 1 bit, drive a 35i with 8 spd and it has massive delay. Software mapping comes with the transmission. Try revving your car in neutral, won't have any delay.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:55 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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The X3 has the issue as well. It is documented and tested with accelerometers and GPS:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e28i_update_8/

It's shocking to see that BMW has not taken any action over such a report and the problem is across other models like the F10.
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  #20  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:37 PM
325es1988 325es1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyX1 View Post
The delay happens before the transmission even sees any torque. The engine sits quietly for a full second after depressing the accelerator before responding at all, so why would it be different with the 3.0L/6sp? Same ECU I bet. Anyone with the 3.0 see this too?

Expecting the BMS unit in 2-5 days... I'll report back in a new post after the install, hopefully on the weekend. We're at about 2k miles now, so I feel comfortable changing the maps a bit. Won't drive it too hard though, I promise! Even if the unit only remapped this stupid drive-by-wire delay, I would be happy...
grey....i'm looking forward to your new thread. i'm really interested in the BMS Stage 1 as well. i haven't reached out to Terry yet about the unit but my main concern is the "codes" it might throw out when I bring the car in for service. Main reason for purchasing the X1 over an Infiniti EX was the better warranty. I read about the CAN tool but tuning is new to me. I've always done bolt ons. My '88 325es wasn't so technologically advanced as this X1 Just want to make sure I can get this unit without to much of a headache.

i notice the hesitation too...it really is about 1 second before throttle kicks in.

anxiously waiting grey!
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  #21  
Old 01-02-2013, 07:06 PM
jbone907 jbone907 is offline
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I sure am glad I found this thread. Now that I am approaching 200 miles on my X1, I've been quite aware of this silly throttle lag for some time. It only took about 20-ish miles for me to realize that the delay was "just how the car is." The acceleration is about as linear as a Mobius strip! I give the pedal a full inch; car acts like a sleepy dog being poked with a stick to move. Once it gets going, even a tiny increase in pedal pressure brings on a more acceptable rate of acceleration.

If either of these BMS devices will make the pedal act like that from the beginning, then I'll be all over it. I will be anxiously awaiting results on how well this works for our X1's!
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:57 AM
nospam nospam is offline
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Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
I bet the 35i models don't do it since they have the 6spd auto
I have a 2009 128i and had a 2009 335i, it still occurs with the 6AT (not quite a full second though). It is not the transmission. We always slide over to S when we need performance.

Last edited by nospam; 01-01-2013 at 10:58 AM.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:25 AM
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Wow, if you search "hesitation" there are a bunch of threads related to older engines/models. They refer to the hesitation as "tip-in" also. Seems like BMW has attempted to address the issue in other models by updating the software maps. I can't find anything about the N20 and hesitation yet though, except for that earlier thread in this forum where some people mention also experiencing it, but that was also discussing misfire under acceleration which this definitely is not.
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:09 PM
nospam nospam is offline
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Sport mode has improved throttle response. Interesting that you detected a difference between the 28i and 35i. It would be great if they fixed this in software.

Last edited by nospam; 01-01-2013 at 09:12 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2013, 06:48 AM
vbbuilt vbbuilt is offline
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Interesting discussion! Guess I never really noticed it, but then, this is the 4th turbo 4 cyl vehicle I've owned, so I attributed that hesitation to turbo lag. I've simply adjusted my driving habits to it. Not a big deal for me.

Vince.
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