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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 01-01-2013, 05:44 PM
otonimus otonimus is offline
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All of these "doesn't handle well enough" comments need some perspective

The F30 may not handle with the same level of feel as previous 3's... And I'm not arguing that, as I'm certainly no BMW expert. This is my first 3 (sportline), and I haven't spent enough time with previous 3's to really have an opinion one way or another.

However, let's remember what it's still far better than:

My previous car, a 2004 Mazda 6s, which by all accounts handles far better than any Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, the cars with which it competes... and the F30 kills the Mazda 6S in handling, of course... So the F30 is supposed to be a big step up from this class of car, and it sure as hell is.

It's also way better than my 99 A4 2.8 was, with the Sport Package. And my dad's 2011 Jetta Diesel. And my friend's 2010 G37 sedan, and my other friend's 2008 E300. And my ex's 2004 Volvo S50. Spanks all of them. I could go on and on.

So anyone who is looking to step up from lesser handling cars of a similar size, fear not. This ain't no Accord with a nicer badge.

If you're looking for it to handle as well as your old 3, perhaps not... but that doesn't mean it's "vague" or "disconnected"... it's still one hell of a nice handling car.

Just 2 cents from someone who isn't as expert is these car as you are, and apparently happier with the F30 as a result
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2013, 06:42 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by otonimus View Post
...If you're looking for it to handle as well as your old 3, perhaps not... but that doesn't mean it's "vague" or "disconnected"... it's still one hell of a nice handling car...
To add to that:
The latest Car&Driver is just out, with an update to their "Lightning Lap". One of the cars they tested was an F30 335i (sport package). The noted that "even with only the N55 300 hp engine, it was only 0.6s slower around VIR than the previous E90 335is with 320 hp. They absolutely loved the car - the easiest to handle car in this batch, and never a mention of EPS.

Oh, yes. The F30 had the 8 speed auto. Take that you manual cavemen.
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:20 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
The latest Car&Driver is just out, with an update to their "Lightning Lap". One of the cars they tested was an F30 335i (sport package).
Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0.

The F30 is a performance car if you have never driven anything with better handling or performance, a merely competent four-door if you have more experience.
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:37 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0.

The F30 is a performance car if you have never driven anything with better handling or performance, a merely competent four-door if you have more experience.
The v6 Mustang had the shoes and suspension of the GT. The v6 is no longer a dog and is a 13 second car.

The Cobalt SS had the FWD record for the Ring for awhile and made its crank hp at the wheels.

Both cars not to be underestimated.
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The v6 Mustang had the shoes and suspension of the GT. The v6 is no longer a dog and is a 13 second car.

The Cobalt SS had the FWD record for the Ring for awhile and made its crank hp at the wheels.

Both cars not to be underestimated.
this + 1
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:07 PM
Ronin951 Ronin951 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The v6 Mustang had the shoes and suspension of the GT. The v6 is no longer a dog and is a 13 second car.

The Cobalt SS had the FWD record for the Ring for awhile and made its crank hp at the wheels.

Both cars not to be underestimated.
+1. Good vids of a Cobalt SS on the track http://www.youtube.com/user/wangspeed
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:37 PM
otonimus otonimus is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0.

The F30 is a performance car if you have never driven anything with better handling or performance, a merely competent four-door if you have more experience.
Last time I checked this thread was about handling, not straight line performance.

But to your point, does a 2008 911 count? Got to drive one. Faster and better handling than the F30... but I don't see how that makes the F30 "merely competent", it certainly doesn't in my mind.

Last edited by otonimus; 01-01-2013 at 09:12 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:41 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by otonimus View Post
Last time I checked this thread was about handling, not straight line performance.

But to your point, does a 2008 911 count? Got to drive one. Faster and better handling than the F30... but I don't see how that makes the F30 "merely competent", it certainly doesn't in my mind.
I'll save you some time. Took me awhile to figure out that this isn't a BMW forum. It's a BMW enthusiasts forum, and there's the rub.

There are people who expect their German luxury cars to have a secondary purpose, to be a warrior on the track and back in the day the E36 was the perfect car for that. Looked great in the executive parking lot, was a beast on the weekends.

Many of these people (raises hand) grew up and like the fact that the 3 Series has grown up with them. We're not 25 anymore, need a car for 45 year olds now. And like us, the 3 Series is now more mature, larger, softer, more spacious, more luxurious. But a few of these people are stuck in 1995 and begrudge BMW for ruining their sporty weekend trackster. When the subject of Old BMW values vs. New BMW realities arises they throw up smokescreens and zany stats and make up stories about interior materials and popup screens and 0.00005ths of a second, and use buzzwords like "tradition" and "heritage" against the very brand they love.

There's no winning this battle. Run while you can. Create a thread about iPhone compatibility; no one argues over that. Know that Bimmerfest is a wonderful forum filled with great BMW aficionado's, but there are a few bad apples that aren't onboard with BMW's present and want to continually shove BMW's past down our throats as if we don't get it, as if we didn't own E36's and E46's and E90's and aren't smart enough to figure out what BMW is up to.

BMW makes a Roadster. BMW is working on a 1 Series Sedan. There are 1000's of quality E46's available for sale in every city in America. You'd think they'd figure it out by now.

BJ
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  #9  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:36 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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In response to my earlier post noting "Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0," otonimus asserted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by otonimus View Post
Last time I checked this thread was about handling, not straight line performance.
The times I cite above are all from Car and Driver's "Lightening Lap" at VIR. That is, they are road course lap times - you know, with corners.

I appreciate there are those here highly impressed with the handling prowess of the F30. I merely suggest its capabilities are much more modest.
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:39 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
In response to my earlier post noting "Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0," otonimus asserted:



The times I cite above are all from Car and Driver's "Lightening Lap" at VIR. That is, they are road course lap times - you know, with corners.

I appreciate there are those here highly impressed with the handling prowess of the F30. I merely suggest its capabilities are much more modest.
To me, one of the largest factors of every single car tested(drivers aside)...tires.

The right or wrong or proper tire offered or selected on a variety of vehicles in that test would dramatically change the outcome.

Recently GM has been sending Z06s and Zr1s with gumball 80 or so tread rated 'Cup' tires. They outhandle, out brake and out skidpad every challenger including exotics costing 3x as much.
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:25 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
In response to my earlier post noting "Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0," otonimus asserted:



The times I cite above are all from Car and Driver's "Lightening Lap" at VIR. That is, they are road course lap times - you know, with corners.

I appreciate there are those here highly impressed with the handling prowess of the F30. I merely suggest its capabilities are much more modest.
Please tell what issue the Mustang results are in. They're not in the current issue and I haven't been able to find results for the Mustang V6 at VIR.


Regarding the current "Lightning Lap" results, Car & Driver notes the F30 335i used is a 2012 model. As such it is a Sport line model, not an M Sport line. They make zero mention of what tires are on the car. I would say it's highly unlikely they are the 19" staggered, summer, performance tires and the odds are quite high they are the non-staggered 18" low rolling resistance, all seasons. What tires were on the Mustang?
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  #12  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:51 PM
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boramkiv boramkiv is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0.

The F30 is a performance car if you have never driven anything with better handling or performance, a merely competent four-door if you have more experience.
Not to mention the F30 has four doors and the mustang is built from the ground up as two doors. The tested cobalt has 2 doors. Love it when people leave out important details especially when the say "solid rear axle". The mustang wants to be a 4 door with IRS like the F30 and will probably get that treatment in '14.
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  #13  
Old 01-02-2013, 05:38 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Keep in mind the F30 335's 3.13.2 time was bested by the lowly V-6, solid rear axle Ford Mustang at 3:12.5 and even the Chevy Cobalt SS at 3:13.0.

The F30 is a performance car if you have never driven anything with better handling or performance, a merely competent four-door if you have more experience.
It is unreal to me how little credit such cars get and how well the perform and outperform the competition for the price.
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  #14  
Old 01-02-2013, 05:37 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
To add to that:
The latest Car&Driver is just out, with an update to their "Lightning Lap". One of the cars they tested was an F30 335i (sport package). The noted that "even with only the N55 300 hp engine, it was only 0.6s slower around VIR than the previous E90 335is with 320 hp. They absolutely loved the car - the easiest to handle car in this batch, and never a mention of EPS.

Oh, yes. The F30 had the 8 speed auto. Take that you manual cavemen.
They also tested a 2007 335i Coupe on 08/2007 that posted a time of 3:10.5 vs 13:13.2 for the F30.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:41 AM
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The F30 is a great handling car. When I first received, I was a little disappointed by the slight "numbness" in the steering. However, after a month of driving I absolutely love how it drives. Going through a fast turn or a tight turn - the car is always where you want it to be. The lack of feel is an illusion, and makes the car more comfortable and luxurious to drive.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:28 PM
g37to335i g37to335i is offline
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The F30 may not handle with the same level of feel as previous 3's... And I'm not arguing that, as I'm certainly no BMW expert. This is my first 3 (sportline), and I haven't spent enough time with previous 3's to really have an opinion one way or another.

However, let's remember what it's still far better than:

My previous car, a 2004 Mazda 6s, which by all accounts handles far better than any Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, the cars with which it competes... and the F30 kills the Mazda 6S in handling, of course... So the F30 is supposed to be a big step up from this class of car, and it sure as hell is.

It's also way better than my 99 A4 2.8 was, with the Sport Package. And my dad's 2011 Jetta Diesel. And my friend's 2010 G37 sedan, and my other friend's 2008 E300. And my ex's 2004 Volvo S50. Spanks all of them. I could go on and on.

So anyone who is looking to step up from lesser handling cars of a similar size, fear not. This ain't no Accord with a nicer badge.

If you're looking for it to handle as well as your old 3, perhaps not... but that doesn't mean it's "vague" or "disconnected"... it's still one hell of a nice handling car.

Just 2 cents from someone who isn't as expert is these car as you are, and apparently happier with the F30 as a result
Totally agree with you, my 335i m sport handles better than my G37. By most accounts the G37 is a great car in this segment. I have had 328i E90 loaners and I do not see any evidence of my 335i giving anything up in terms of handling.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:18 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by otonimus View Post

If you're looking for it to handle as well as your old 3, perhaps not... but that doesn't mean it's "vague" or "disconnected"... it's still one hell of a nice handling car.

Just 2 cents from someone who isn't as expert is these car as you are, and apparently happier with the F30 as a result
Bravo.

Keep in mind, 99% of those even mentioning disappointment in handling own E90's, haven't test-driven an F30, and are just parroting what they've read in enthusiast magazines.

The F30 is a fantastic handling car, responds to steering command with precision, sticks to the road like glue, shifts like smooth lightning, torque's like a rocket, and pushes no road bumps or pothole feedback to the driver. It's an amazing car.

BJ
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  #18  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:11 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Bravo.

Keep in mind, 99% of those even mentioning disappointment in handling own E90's, haven't test-driven an F30, and are just parroting what they've read in enthusiast magazines.

BJ
Nonsense, almost every one of the E90 drivers who are thinking of replacing, likely have driven an F30 by now Even you have continued to complain about your L328i's body roll.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-01-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:53 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Nonsense, almost every one of the E90 drivers who are thinking of replacing, likely have driven an F30 by now Even you have continued to complain about your L328i's body roll.

BMW continues it's drive toward comfort, contrast to M.

When's that M3 comin' on?
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:02 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Bravo.

Keep in mind, 99% of those even mentioning disappointment in handling own E90's, haven't test-driven an F30, and are just parroting what they've read in enthusiast magazines.

The F30 is a fantastic handling car, responds to steering command with precision, sticks to the road like glue, shifts like smooth lightning, torque's like a rocket, and pushes no road bumps or pothole feedback to the driver. It's an amazing car.

BJ
OK, you win. I will give it a chance.

You are right. I am b!tching about a car I haven't even driven. It's just that I love my E92 so . . .

But I did drive the current and previous generations of 5 series and hated them.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:11 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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OK, you win. I will give it a chance.

You are right. I am b!tching about a car I haven't even driven. It's just that I love my E92 so . . .

But I did drive the current and previous generations of 5 series and hated them.
What were your expectations of the 5 series? A larger 3 series?
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:29 PM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Bravo.

Keep in mind, 99% of those even mentioning disappointment in handling own E90's, haven't test-driven an F30, and are just parroting what they've read in enthusiast magazines.

The F30 is a fantastic handling car, responds to steering command with precision, sticks to the road like glue, shifts like smooth lightning, torque's like a rocket, and pushes no road bumps or pothole feedback to the driver. It's an amazing car.BJ
Since I own an E90 (with optional sports suspension) AND an F30 (with optional sports suspension), I think I am pretty well qualified to compare the vehicles. I have nothing against the F30's ride and yes, it is wonderfully quick and it has great torque.

It does not take speed bumps or potholes very well and, in fact, I drove over a speed bump yesterday in my F30 that I have driven over many times in my E90 (without slowing down at all) and I was stunned at how harsh the jolt was. I found the same result with potholes.

I prefer the road feel and handling of my E90 - in fact, the E90 is a significantly better "driver's car". I prefer virtually everything else about the F30.

So.....not everyone is blowing smoke. I have firsthand experience with both cars, although that will end shortly, as I have my E90 up for sale.

R
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:06 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
Since I own an E90 (with optional sports suspension) AND an F30 (with optional sports suspension), I think I am pretty well qualified to compare the vehicles. I have nothing against the F30's ride and yes, it is wonderfully quick and it has great torque.

It does not take speed bumps or potholes very well and, in fact, I drove over a speed bump yesterday in my F30 that I have driven over many times in my E90 (without slowing down at all) and I was stunned at how harsh the jolt was. I found the same result with potholes.

I prefer the road feel and handling of my E90 - in fact, the E90 is a significantly better "driver's car". I prefer virtually everything else about the F30.

So.....not everyone is blowing smoke. I have firsthand experience with both cars, although that will end shortly, as I have my E90 up for sale.

R
Thanks for your take. The famous term on this site of "pothole explosion" came about due to what many consider the overly harsh suspension of the E90 on rough roads and in particular sharp edged bumps in the road. If you live in the northern states with our horrible roads you know to what I refer. I'm surprised that you find the F30 worse in this regard. I have not read any other reports like yours. Goes to show how we all have different perceptions.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:09 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Thanks for your take. The famous term on this site of "pothole explosion" came about due to what many consider the overly harsh suspension of the E90 on rough roads and in particular sharp edged bumps in the road. If you live in the northern states with our horrible roads you know to what I refer. I'm surprised that you find the F30 worse in this regard. I have not read any other reports like yours. Goes to show how we all have different perceptions.
It has a lot to do with tires. I remember asking RobertaZ how each car was equipped when statements about brakes etc seemed to highlight the E90 was on a different tire type than the F30.
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:04 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
It has a lot to do with tires. I remember asking RobertaZ how each car was equipped when statements about brakes etc seemed to highlight the E90 was on a different tire type than the F30.
Thanks. It would be good to know what she is running. Also, thanks for your post of the track experience in the R & T thread.
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