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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:11 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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JB4 Stage 2 installed! A Must have for all F10 535i!

Recently I been Fed up with waiting for Dinan to release a tune for F10 535i, along with feeling the need for more power, I decided to go with the JB4 stage 2 tune from Burger Motorsports.
From the Dyno Iíve seen I figure this would be a slight barely noticeable improvement on the car, but Boy was I wrong! The tune blew my mind away! Completely off my head and into Outer space! I can not believe how an inexpensive little box could change the car so much.

Pros:
- My biggest complaint against the F10 5 series was the throttle response. The car while smooth is very lazy on the throttle. There is a half second delay between stomping on the gas and the actually car moving. Sometimes you would even fall behind traffic because of it. This tune completely changed it. The car suddenly becomes a lot more responsive. At the lightest touch of gas, the car would start moving. It actually made the 535i felt like my F30 335i. Itís as if the car lost 500 lbs!
- Installation was really easy. The installation really only took 5 minutes. Most of the cables are just plug and play. Some slots were a little hard to reach, but no big deal. People were complaining how the stage 2 has to tap in 2 wires. But Terry has included some nice little tool so it goes unnoticeable. (Props to Terry Burger who personally installed the tune for me )
- The price is perfect. Unlike the $3k to $4k 550i tune charge by Dinan. The Burger tune is only $529. For the improvement, this price is completely reasonable. Wouldnít mind paying twice as much to be honest.
- And of course, Power. According to the Burger Website, the N55 JB4 stage 2 tune gives +80HP and +100lb torque. Does it feel like it? You bet your ass it does! In Sports or Manual Shift, the car accelerates violently. At full throttle, the traction control would kick in every time. I canít even open it up around town now, because how fast it accelerates. It makes the car feel like a muscle car, like the car has 400HP! (At least my butt dyno tells me it does )

Cons:
- There are one or two cons about the tune. One thing many people would be disappointed to hear is the Turbo Lag didnít go away. I guess itís impossible to get rid of it since even the M5 have it. But it is minimized with the tune. You canít really feel it unless you stomp it full throttle suddenly.
- Burger is still working on adding some of the features to the tune, such as on dash map changing, etc. The only way to change the map now is to use a USB cable and Laptop, no biggie

So in the end, I would recommend the tune to all F10 535i owners. I would go to even say it is a must have. Even if you donít need the extra power, the tune makes the car so much more responsive and easier to drive around town. On highway too, since the car accelerate much quicker, which allows much easier lane change and passing.
Iím in love with the tune.


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Last edited by smashhell; 01-08-2013 at 06:41 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:48 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Did you have any tip in issues? If so, what did I do?
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:27 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Did you have any tip in issues? If so, what did I do?
Before the tune, yes a huge tip in issue.
After the tune, nope it's all gone. The throttle and acceleration is now instant. Even at the lightest touch the car goes.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:42 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Not lag when under way. From a start.
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2013, 08:08 PM
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Thanks for the energetic review.

It seems you may have seen this disturbing dyno of a n55 F10 with the JB4-stage 2 BMS tune:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784125



Did you ask Terry about this?? I was ready to buy this tune; however, the above dyno is very disturbing to me. I am anxiously waiting to see when Terry will respond to this information. It seems that the shop has contacted Terry over 2 weeks ago about this.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:04 AM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDeep1 View Post
Thanks for the energetic review.

It seems you may have seen this disturbing dyno of a n55 F10 with the JB4-stage 2 BMS tune:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784125



Did you ask Terry about this?? I was ready to buy this tune; however, the above dyno is very disturbing to me. I am anxiously waiting to see when Terry will respond to this information. It seems that the shop has contacted Terry over 2 weeks ago about this.
Is this your install? In only have the Stage 1, but like I have written before, it make a world of difference even though it does not have the attributes of the stage 2 tune. I notice, like the OP said, instant power on when driving. There is some, I wouldn't call it pronounced lag, but a softer take-up that I experience in many cars. I talk about it here.
http://www.www.bimmerfest.com/forums...hlight=peterc4
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:19 PM
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TGray5 TGray5 is offline
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Excellent review...thanks. I see they now have a tune for F10 550's now too, labelled BETA. Has anyone tried it?
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:33 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDeep1 View Post
Thanks for the energetic review.

It seems you may have seen this disturbing dyno of a n55 F10 with the JB4-stage 2 BMS tune:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784125



Did you ask Terry about this?? I was ready to buy this tune; however, the above dyno is very disturbing to me. I am anxiously waiting to see when Terry will respond to this information. It seems that the shop has contacted Terry over 2 weeks ago about this.
Yeah I seen that chart.
Not sure what caused that or why the dyno was so choppy.
It might have been driver issue
Doesn't really matter to me though.
Because this tune is so much more than just numbers. The improvement made to the driving feel alone made it worth every penny.
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:29 PM
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BMS has sold a lot of N55 juice boxes and he sold many N54 before that...many happy customers from what I've read. The stock torque on that dyno run looks surprisingly high....328 ft. lbs at the wheels? when the car is rated 300 ft lbs at the crank. Perhaps that car has numerous other mods that are incompatible with the juice box? Many other dyno runs prove what the product claims...and what the OP of this thread reports. Return it for a refund if not happy.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:04 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGray5 View Post
BMS has sold a lot of N55 juice boxes and he sold many N54 before that...many happy customers from what I've read. The stock torque on that dyno run looks surprisingly high....328 ft. lbs at the wheels? when the car is rated 300 ft lbs at the crank. Perhaps that car has numerous other mods that are incompatible with the juice box? Many other dyno runs prove what the product claims...and what the OP of this thread reports. Return it for a refund if not happy.
+1

I still have yet to see a real before and after dyno with these tunes. I just picked up the stage 1 from a local fester who is going a different route. I plan on doing before and after dyno's at every point. Before stage 1, after stage 1, and then after stage 2. That is if my car tags ever get here.

I guess I just dont understand the doing something like this without measuring it properly. I guess I am just to anal about it.
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  #11  
Old 01-09-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
+1

I still have yet to see a real before and after dyno with these tunes. I just picked up the stage 1 from a local fester who is going a different route. I plan on doing before and after dyno's at every point. Before stage 1, after stage 1, and then after stage 2. That is if my car tags ever get here.

I guess I just dont understand the doing something like this without measuring it properly. I guess I am just to anal about it.
There are plenty of dynos out there, I've seen many...you won't be the first to run one. The butt dyno is the most important!
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:21 AM
alextremo alextremo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
I guess I just dont understand the doing something like this without measuring it properly. I guess I am just to anal about it.
+1. Not anal, logical!

And yes, I did dyno my car before and after the dinan tune and have also data logged parameters like timing, AFR, boost, throttle body position, intake temps, etc. to insure my car was happy with the software.
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2013, 11:25 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by alextremo View Post
+1. Not anal, logical!

And yes, I did dyno my car before and after the dinan tune and have also data logged parameters like timing, AFR, boost, throttle body position, intake temps, etc. to insure my car was happy with the software.
EXACTLY! That's how you do it.

There are not a lot of before and afters out there which makes me skeptical - 80HP 100LB Torque - thats a 25%+ increase in HP and torque.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
+1

I still have yet to see a real before and after dyno with these tunes. I just picked up the stage 1 from a local fester who is going a different route. I plan on doing before and after dyno's at every point. Before stage 1, after stage 1, and then after stage 2. That is if my car tags ever get here.

I guess I just dont understand the doing something like this without measuring it properly. I guess I am just to anal about it.
I was actually ready to pull the trigger on the Stage 2 for January; however, that graph gave me reason for concern. I have respect for Terry and his products; however, I want to see his response before I make my purchase. More than the product itself, I want to see the dedication to maintaining and improving this specific product. Afterall, one of the selling points with the Stage 2 JB4 (over the Stage 1) is its ability to be updated - as BMS said there would be updates and improvements that would ONLY apply to the JB4.

I too would do before and after dynos if I had the tune. Keep me posted where you get your dyno done at.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:31 AM
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\
I too would do before and after dynos if I had the tune. Keep me posted where you get your dyno done at.
I was gonna wait for you?

Just got Ramble's stage1, but first I need to get tires swapped and my tags first.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:27 PM
RambleJ RambleJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGray5 View Post
BMS has sold a lot of N55 juice boxes and he sold many N54 before that...many happy customers from what I've read. The stock torque on that dyno run looks surprisingly high....328 ft. lbs at the wheels? when the car is rated 300 ft lbs at the crank. Perhaps that car has numerous other mods that are incompatible with the juice box? Many other dyno runs prove what the product claims...and what the OP of this thread reports. Return it for a refund if not happy.
You cannot compare any E90/E92 N55 or N54 BMS dynos to this tune on an F10. There are too many different parameters. Which is why we are not seeing the gains the guys with the E9x N55s are seeing.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
You cannot compare any E90/E92 N55 or N54 BMS dynos to this tune on an F10. There are too many different parameters. Which is why we are not seeing the gains the guys with the E9x N55s are seeing.
Just curious...what are the different parameters between the N55 in an F30 and N55 in an F10?
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:11 PM
RambleJ RambleJ is offline
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Just curious...what are the different parameters between the N55 in an F30 and N55 in an F10?
Not too sure about the F30 to the F10. But from the E90/92 N55 to the F30/F10 N55 has a whole different ECU. So those dynos that you see on BMS' website for the stage 1 and stage 2 with or without DP are from the E9x N55 and not from any F30 or F10. These are proving a lot harder to get the huge gains that were seen with the N54s and older N55s. Just want to make sure everyone has a clear understanding of this tune before thinking they can gain 80-100hp on an F10.. Sorry OP but you gained 40-50 Max and that is taking into acount your catback exhaust as well.

Wow, I sound like a grouch. I' m really not grumpy, just don't like seeing people misinformed.
And I had the tune on my car for a couple months so I an not just talking out of my ass here.

Bottom line its great for a little kick in power. Way better than stock, but I am on a mission to find something better that gives me the power I miss from my E60.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:25 AM
alextremo alextremo is offline
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Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
Yeah I seen that chart.
Not sure what caused that or why the dyno was so choppy.
It might have been driver issue
Doesn't really matter to me though.
Because this tune is so much more than just numbers. The improvement made to the driving feel alone made it worth every penny.
How could this not matter to you? If you haven't had your car on the dyno or data logged before and after you have no idea what the tune is doing to your engine. Seeing this graph would make me very nervous about putting this tune on my car. Agreed it could be something specific to that car, or that dyno or dyno operator but I would not be satisfied (or writing positive reviews) without having any data of the impacts on your car's engine operation aside from your subjective assessment of improved driving feel.

Also, i believe the owner of the car from that dyno has uninstalled the tune and is selling it, I did not see the issues with the dyno explained or addressed.

Last edited by alextremo; 01-09-2013 at 04:29 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:56 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Not lag when under way. From a start.
Exactly what I was saying.
The throttle "tip in" from a start has gone away. The throttle response is now smooth as silk. No more jerky acceleration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGray5 View Post
BMS has sold a lot of N55 juice boxes and he sold many N54 before that...many happy customers from what I've read. The stock torque on that dyno run looks surprisingly high....328 ft. lbs at the wheels? when the car is rated 300 ft lbs at the crank. Perhaps that car has numerous other mods that are incompatible with the juice box? Many other dyno runs prove what the product claims...and what the OP of this thread reports. Return it for a refund if not happy.
Yep. An extremely happy customer right here.
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Last edited by smashhell; 01-08-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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  #21  
Old 01-09-2013, 07:30 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
Exactly what I was saying.
The throttle "tip in" from a start has gone away. The throttle response is now smooth as silk. No more jerky acceleration.



Yep. An extremely happy customer right here.
OK, I'm buying one as soon as the car comes back from the shop.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
OK, I'm buying one as soon as the car comes back from the shop.
Looking forward to your feedback. Houston does have A LOT of speed shops with dynos
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:18 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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OK, I'm buying one as soon as the car comes back from the shop.
I'm sure you will be happy with your choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
Not too sure about the F30 to the F10. But from the E90/92 N55 to the F30/F10 N55 has a whole different ECU. So those dynos that you see on BMS' website for the stage 1 and stage 2 with or without DP are from the E9x N55 and not from any F30 or F10. These are proving a lot harder to get the huge gains that were seen with the N54s and older N55s. Just want to make sure everyone has a clear understanding of this tune before thinking they can gain 80-100hp on an F10.. Sorry OP but you gained 40-50 Max and that is taking into acount your catback exhaust as well.

Wow, I sound like a grouch. I' m really not grumpy, just don't like seeing people misinformed.
And I had the tune on my car for a couple months so I an not just talking out of my ass here.

Bottom line its great for a little kick in power. Way better than stock, but I am on a mission to find something better that gives me the power I miss from my E60.
Definitely not 80hp/100tq.. Since having it off my car, I notice a difference, but nothing like my E60 tuned N54 vs stock. That was a gain of around 80 hp/tq and this feels nothing close to that at all. I would say 25hp/35-40tq And those are my butt dyno numbers for the stage 1.. I like to say they are usually pretty accurate.

Well, I am running stage 2 which is supposedly to be a bigger, more dramatic improvement over stage 1.
Rather or not if it really gives a gain of 80hp I'm not sure.
It sure feels awesome though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alextremo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGray5 View Post
BMS has sold a lot of N55 juice boxes and he sold many N54 before that...many happy customers from what I've read. The stock torque on that dyno run looks surprisingly high....328 ft. lbs at the wheels? when the car is rated 300 ft lbs at the crank. Perhaps that car has numerous other mods that are incompatible with the juice box? Many other dyno runs prove what the product claims...and what the OP of this thread reports. Return it for a refund if not happy.
How could this not matter to you? If you haven't had your car on the dyno or data logged before and after you have no idea what the tune is doing to your engine. Seeing this graph would make me very nervous about putting this tune on my car. Agreed it could be something specific to that car, or that dyno or dyno operator but I would not be satisfied (or writing positive reviews) without having any data of the impacts on your car's engine operation aside from your subjective assessment of improved driving feel.

Also, i believe the owner of the car from that dyno has uninstalled the tune and is selling it, I did not see the issues with the dyno explained or addressed.

See TGray5's post.
There are tens of thousands of BMW out there running Burger's tune.
I trust Terry's work as it has been proven to be excellent.

As for my subjective assessment of improved driving feel, isn't that what is most important?
Numbers and charts are meaningless to me because I am not shooting to have the most powerful 535.
Like I said in my review, base on the throttle response and tip in fix alone the tune is well worth the money.
It just made the car so much more useable in everyday situation, highway or in traffic.
Everything else is just icing on the cake.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:27 PM
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bighungry618 bighungry618 is offline
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Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
I'm sure you will be happy with your choice.

See TGray5's post.
There are tens of thousands of BMW out there running Burger's tune.
I trust Terry's work as it has been proven to be excellent.

As for my subjective assessment of improved driving feel, isn't that what is most important?
Numbers and charts are meaningless to me because I am not shooting to have the most powerful 535.
Like I said in my review, base on the throttle response and tip in fix alone the tune is well worth the money.
It just made the car so much more useable in everyday situation, highway or in traffic.
Everything else is just icing on the cake.
BOOM!...Well said!
But if and when something better comes along, I will evaluate the possibility of changing tunes.
As of right now, performance for dollar value, plus the vast improvement in driveability, you cannot beat the JB4 S2 for the 535.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:16 PM
alextremo alextremo is offline
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Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
See TGray5's post.
There are tens of thousands of BMW out there running Burger's tune.
I trust Terry's work as it has been proven to be excellent.

As for my subjective assessment of improved driving feel, isn't that what is most important?
Numbers and charts are meaningless to me because I am not shooting to have the most powerful 535.
Like I said in my review, base on the throttle response and tip in fix alone the tune is well worth the money.
It just made the car so much more useable in everyday situation, highway or in traffic.
Everything else is just icing on the cake.
I don't mean to be confrontational but you come off as extremely naive. What do this company's products on other BMW models have to do with how your car is impacted by this tune? What do you think Terry's engineering and test investment looks like for the f10 that would give you this confidence? There is not a large sample of f10 users you can rely on that have provided solid data, and the only data I have seen has indicated there is a potential problem. If you don't have data you have no way to know what is going on inside your engine.

And I'm not talking about max power, I'm talking about having confidence that the tune you installed is SAFELY adding more power. Driving feel is only important if you can be sure you're not causing damage to your car. Without verifying myself that everything is copacetic I would not be running this tune, but maybe that's just me.
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