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European Delivery
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  #1  
Old 01-10-2013, 05:57 AM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Doing ED in May - tentative itinerary

I placed my order on Tuesday night so I am in contact witht he dealership about arranging a delivery date and whatnot. But I have been planning the trip for almost a year so I am pretty sure about where I want to go, at least right up until the last few days.

Here it is:

Day 1 (Friday): Fly to Munich
Day 2: Arrive Munich
Day 3: Munich
Day 4 (Monday): Delivery, drive to Salzburg via Berchtesgaden and German Alpine Road
Day 5: Depart Salzburg, drive to Vienna
Day 6: Vienna
Day 7: Depart Vienna, drive to Krakow
Day 8: Krakow
Day 9: Depart Krakow, drive to Prague
Day 10: Prague
Day 11: Depart Prague, drive to Nurburgring - drive the Ring
Day 12: wake up, drive the Ring again, head south toward Switzerland, try to take in an hour or so of driving in the Black Forest, end up in Zurich
Day 13: Zurich (maybe go to Lucerne...not sure. People have told me Zurich isn't too exciting.
Day 14: Depart Zurich, drive to Milan via San Bernardino Pass
Day 15: Milan
Day 16: Depart Milan, drive to Nice - maybe drop off car
Day 17: Maybe drop off car, maybe spend day in Nice, maybe come home
Day 18: if not already home, come home.

There may be time in here to spend a full day at Nurburg. And maybe time to spend two full days in Nice after dropping off the car, or maybe one day in Zurich and one day in Lucerne.

Crappy thing about this itinerary is that we get back mid-week. I can either power through and work a few days like a zombie when I get back or just take all 3 weeks off. But my wife would definitely have to work.

If it were up to me, we'd cut out Italy and France and save it for another trip...but she really wants to go to Italy. Thing is, May temps in Nice average only 20 Celsius....so it shouldnt be expenvise to stay but it's not like we'll be spending our last day lounging on the beach.

Either way I am pumped. It's about 5 hours driving every other day. Seems like a lot but that's what I'm there for. I like the idea of having a day or two in each city to get a tate and decide which ones I'd like to visit again.

Last edited by jtuds; 01-10-2013 at 05:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:02 AM
martyl martyl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I placed my order on Tuesday night so I am in contact witht he dealership about arranging a delivery date and whatnot. But I have been planning the trip for almost a year so I am pretty sure about where I want to go, at least right up until the last few days.

Here it is:

Day 1 (Friday): Fly to Munich
Day 2: Arrive Munich
Day 3: Munich
Day 4 (Monday): Delivery, drive to Salzburg via Berchtesgaden and German Alpine Road
Day 5: Depart Salzburg, drive to Vienna
Day 6: Vienna
Day 7: Depart Vienna, drive to Krakow
Day 8: Krakow
Day 9: Depart Krakow, drive to Prague
Day 10: Prague
Day 11: Depart Prague, drive to Nurburgring - drive the Ring
Day 12: wake up, drive the Ring again, head south toward Switzerland, try to take in an hour or so of driving in the Black Forest, end up in Zurich
Day 13: Zurich (maybe go to Lucerne...not sure. People have told me Zurich isn't too exciting.
Day 14: Depart Zurich, drive to Milan via San Bernardino Pass
Day 15: Milan
Day 16: Depart Milan, drive to Nice - maybe drop off car
Day 17: Maybe drop off car, maybe spend day in Nice, maybe come home
Day 18: if not already home, come home.

There may be time in here to spend a full day at Nurburg. And maybe time to spend two full days in Nice after dropping off the car, or maybe one day in Zurich and one day in Lucerne.

Crappy thing about this itinerary is that we get back mid-week. I can either power through and work a few days like a zombie when I get back or just take all 3 weeks off. But my wife would definitely have to work.

If it were up to me, we'd cut out Italy and France and save it for another trip...but she really wants to go to Italy. Thing is, May temps in Nice average only 20 Celsius....so it shouldnt be expenvise to stay but it's not like we'll be spending our last day lounging on the beach.

Either way I am pumped. It's about 5 hours driving every other day. Seems like a lot but that's what I'm there for. I like the idea of having a day or two in each city to get a tate and decide which ones I'd like to visit again.
I would agree that Zurich is not that exciting. Unless you're crazy about Milan, I'd suggest going to the Lake Como area instead. It's beautiful there with some lovely little towns like Cernobbio and Bellagio. ED is the best. Have fun.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:17 AM
Loganradio Loganradio is offline
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Is your trip all about the driving or enjoying the sights? I've been to most of the places on your list and 1/2 day in each is about enough time for a walking tour and a couple meals.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:34 AM
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It might take you 1 day to find a place to park in Milan

If I were you I'd stay out of Milan, Poland the and Czech Republic and continue South to Tuscany and then finish your trip on the French Riviera - I like Juan les Pins better than Nice...and like IT better than just about anywhere.

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:02 AM
neurom neurom is offline
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Originally Posted by dkreidel View Post
It might take you 1 day to find a place to park in Milan

If I were you I'd stay out of Milan, Poland the and Czech Republic and continue South to Tuscany and then finish your trip on the French Riviera - I like Juan les Pins better than Nice...and like IT better than just about anywhere.

dk
I echo this, the OP original plan is too ambitious, the typical "lets put a checkmark in the places I have been in Europe even if I am huffing and puffing to make it" type of plan that 1st timers end up regretting later. If Italy is a priority, going to Tuscany, perhaps swinging through the Cinque Terre on the way to a Nice dropoff makes the most sense.

You will likely go back.
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2013, 10:50 AM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Originally Posted by Loganradio View Post
Is your trip all about the driving or enjoying the sights? I've been to most of the places on your list and 1/2 day in each is about enough time for a walking tour and a couple meals.
Where am I spending half a day?

And I can't not go to Poland, it's my homeland (my family's homeland) so it's a priority.

I don't deny that this is an ambitious itinerary, but I saw in London and Paris for a total of 6 days a couple years ago and I feel like I saw enough of those places to not need to go back for awhile. I don't doubt there's a lot of places on that list, but I want to make sure my 1.5 to 2 days is full of activity...I'm not a fan of downtime when I'm paying a lot to be somewhere. It's why I've never gone to an all inclusive and don't plan to until its the only thing Ive got left to do

Last edited by jtuds; 01-10-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:01 PM
Loganradio Loganradio is offline
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Poland is gorgeous, and Krakow is a charming city. I'd be heading toward to Tatra mountains for a couple days if I were of Polish descent. If Switzerland is a MUST-SEE, head to Interlaken and skip Zurich. It's just a city.

I understand a desire to get on the road, particularly with a new BMW waiting to be driven, but I don't envy the amount of time you'll be on those roads gettting from one destination to another. Not much to see or do on a highway.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:03 PM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Notwithstanding my comments above, if anyone is in the region(s) I plan to visit and is familiar with those cities or the driving conditions between them, I would appreciate some detail as to why my timeline is too tight. For example, If I am in, say, Prague for an afternoon, a full day, and a morning, what will that look like in terms of being able to do stuff?

I am not a fan of lines, and I am not going to find out about stuff then go there to see it becuase it is the thing you're supposed to see. For example, I am not going to google "top 10 things to see in Prague" then try to see as many things as I can see in 2 days. I'll maybe try to hit up what catches my eye on that list, then spend the rest of my time walking around and looking at whatever looks cool. In London and Paris I knew about alot of the big stuff, so I saw it and then still had about a half day to wander.

In all the places I've listed in my itinerary, my only must-see attractions are the old part of munich, the old part of Krakow, Auschwitz, Nurburgring, the Alps, and the Riviera. I know Prague, Salzburg, Vienna, etc all have castels and cathedrals and opera houses and museums, but I'm not a guy who visits those places just becuase they're there. I'm attracted to places that have historical significance to me, and beyond that, I jus tlike to look around and see how peole live and note how it is different from what I am familiar with.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:13 PM
neurom neurom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
Notwithstanding my comments above, if anyone is in the region(s) I plan to visit and is familiar with those cities or the driving conditions between them, I would appreciate some detail as to why my timeline is too tight. For example, If I am in, say, Prague for an afternoon, a full day, and a morning, what will that look like in terms of being able to do stuff?

I am not a fan of lines, and I am not going to find out about stuff then go there to see it becuase it is the thing you're supposed to see. For example, I am not going to google "top 10 things to see in Prague" then try to see as many things as I can see in 2 days. I'll maybe try to hit up what catches my eye on that list, then spend the rest of my time walking around and looking at whatever looks cool. In London and Paris I knew about alot of the big stuff, so I saw it and then still had about a half day to wander.

In all the places I've listed in my itinerary, my only must-see attractions are the old part of munich, the old part of Krakow, Auschwitz, Nurburgring, the Alps, and the Riviera. I know Prague, Salzburg, Vienna, etc all have castels and cathedrals and opera houses and museums, but I'm not a guy who visits those places just becuase they're there. I'm attracted to places that have historical significance to me, and beyond that, I jus tlike to look around and see how peole live and note how it is different from what I am familiar with.
You asked for advise, and the plan is ambitious for most even driving enthusiasts who would not want to do that much driving, but if may be your cup of tea, so go for it then, it is your trip. First make sure you put the destinations in google maps or another planner so you can see how much time behind the windshield you are going to have. Good luck!
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2013, 02:16 PM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neurom View Post
You asked for advise, and the plan is ambitious for most even driving enthusiasts who would not want to do that much driving, but if may be your cup of tea, so go for it then, it is your trip. First make sure you put the destinations in google maps or another planner so you can see how much time behind the windshield you are going to have. Good luck!
That's where I need advice from the insiders. I have no idea how many high traffic areas I'm passing through. So if google maps says 5 hours (which would allow me to leave at noon and arrive at my destination while the sun is still up) but in reality it takes 7 or 8 hours because of traffic (which would make for an extremely long haul and may mean driving in the dark in a city I've never been to) then I would really like to know before I start booking hotels. Only people who have been in and around these places have this information, which makes it hard for me to tell whether I'm being over ambitious or just ambitious.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2013, 03:21 PM
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SD Z4MR SD Z4MR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
That's where I need advice from the insiders. I have no idea how many high traffic areas I'm passing through. So if google maps says 5 hours (which would allow me to leave at noon and arrive at my destination while the sun is still up) but in reality it takes 7 or 8 hours because of traffic (which would make for an extremely long haul and may mean driving in the dark in a city I've never been to) then I would really like to know before I start booking hotels. Only people who have been in and around these places have this information, which makes it hard for me to tell whether I'm being over ambitious or just ambitious.
We found that in many cases, particularly where we had a lot of driving in a day, that the Google Maps estimates were pretty optimistic. European roads start getting repaired as soon as the weather is nice which means "squeeze lanes" and extremely slow, backed-up traffic. The day we drove from Fussen to Lauterbrunnen we had horrible traffic in Switzerland, particularly around Zurich. Nav took us on the B12/A1 route rather than the A3 route we had planned on and with the traffic around Zurich this extended our travel time so much that we missed the last train from Lauterbrunnen to Murren. Fortunately, the hotel told us that there was a cable car in Stechelberg that runs much later and was only a few kilometers up the road. (Hint: get Michelin maps and mark out your intended route and check it against the Nav! We took Michelin maps, really didn't use them but should have.)

On our way from Lauterbrunnen to Stuttgart, we stopped in Lucerne and then drove through France so we could visit Strasbourg and again ran into horrible traffic with with at least half an hour at a complete standstill. Apparently when this happens in France, everyone gets out of their car and walks around. After leaving Strasbourg the same day we ran into an Autobahn closure south of Baden-Baden in the early evening and even with Nav had to figure out how to get around it and didn't get to our hotel outside Stuttgart until 11:30 PM. Bottom line, plan for delays and allow more time to get around. If you don't run into any delays, you've just got more time at your destination.

As for Switzerland, I would highly recommend staying in Interlaken or Lauterbrunnen instead of Zurich, but it's out of the way if you're going to Milan.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2013, 04:19 PM
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AggieKnight AggieKnight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
That's where I need advice from the insiders. I have no idea how many high traffic areas I'm passing through. So if google maps says 5 hours (which would allow me to leave at noon and arrive at my destination while the sun is still up) but in reality it takes 7 or 8 hours because of traffic (which would make for an extremely long haul and may mean driving in the dark in a city I've never been to) then I would really like to know before I start booking hotels. Only people who have been in and around these places have this information, which makes it hard for me to tell whether I'm being over ambitious or just ambitious.
So a couple things.

Everyone's concerns here are well warranted IMHO. You've got a ton of driving (maybe 2300 miles) in 18 days with 9 destinations. I'm a crazy auto-driving enthusiast, and that would wear my butte out. Especially keep in mind that a significant portion of your driving will be ye-standard-highway. Autobahns and Autostradas are not much different than US Interstates except for different speeds in places. It's fun to hit 150 mph, but after 10 minutes, you are used to it and sitting in cruise control. Heck, my wife fell asleep on the autobahn when I was in cruise control going 140 mph during our first ED. So when you are looking at distances, keep that in mind. The highway driving will get old.

SD Z4MR is also absolutely correct. Google maps is not nearly as accurate with timing in Europe as it is in the North America. If Gmaps says 4 hrs, plan on 6 and be happy when you get there in 5. This is especially true when you get on the backroads where a horse drawn cart of goods can shut down traffic in both directions (I've seen this in Austria).

Loganradio is also dead on. With one day per city, you will (likely, I know I would) sleep in late, have a big breakfast and then leave to explore about noon. Explore for half a day, then eat dinner, relax and go to bed. It's almost a waste to stop in them unless you are just looking to check off boxes. You're doing this while visiting amazing cities with tons to do and see.

For example, my wife and I were in Vienna in December for my most recent ED. We were there for 3 days, and saw maybe 50% of stuff on our list to see. There are half a dozen palaces, the most beautiful opera house I've ever seen, gorgeous architecture, a historic horse riding school, a cathedral, cool bars, great food, fantastic people and a large downtown area that is fun to explore and just chews time. And the only line we ever stood in was for the subway and Glühwein.

We were also in Salzburg for three days and could have spent four more days there easy. We spent a day driving around the region (which is gorgeous), visited one of the many castles, and spent some time wandering the downtown area. The best drive I've ever taken in my life is outside of Salzburg, and I'm sure there are a dozen more out there waiting to be found in that area.

So when people say there is stuff to do, it isn't old people in rocking chairs that want to spend 15 hrs in a museum talking, then a day relaxing on a patio looking at a mountain (this is BMW forum...it's full of driving/exploring enthusiasts) there is really stuff to do.

If it was my itinerary, I'd axe the Nurburgring and everything after Milan, then change Milan into Lake Como. Head from Como back to Munich, drop the car off, go home. Then balance your days across the remaining cities. That will give you 18 days in 6 destinations and allow you to focus on what interests you (like seeing where you lineage is from, which you've already mentioned). It will also heavily cut down on your hotel changes, which get old, impact your plans (be out by X:XX AM in the morning) and burn up time. Alternately, cut everything after the Ring and rebalance you time between those cities. Just run the Ring on Forza a couple times before you leave to maximize your enjoyment.

Your itinerary reminds me of people that go to Disney World and try to hit every attraction in week. They over-plan, get behind, get frustrated, hurry between places and end their vacation exhausted and find that they didn't enjoy it much.

This is just my 2 cents. Feel free to ignore it, but I'd love to hear how your trip ends up regardless.

One other thing - keep in mind that every single country you travel too will have its own traffic laws. You will need to be familiar with them before you leave or you could literally end up in an uncomfortable place.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:09 PM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Originally Posted by AggieKnight View Post
So a couple things.

Everyone's concerns here are well warranted IMHO. You've got a ton of driving (maybe 2300 miles) in 18 days with 9 destinations. I'm a crazy auto-driving enthusiast, and that would wear my butte out. Especially keep in mind that a significant portion of your driving will be ye-standard-highway. Autobahns and Autostradas are not much different than US Interstates except for different speeds in places. It's fun to hit 150 mph, but after 10 minutes, you are used to it and sitting in cruise control. Heck, my wife fell asleep on the autobahn when I was in cruise control going 140 mph during our first ED. So when you are looking at distances, keep that in mind. The highway driving will get old.

SD Z4MR is also absolutely correct. Google maps is not nearly as accurate with timing in Europe as it is in the North America. If Gmaps says 4 hrs, plan on 6 and be happy when you get there in 5. This is especially true when you get on the backroads where a horse drawn cart of goods can shut down traffic in both directions (I've seen this in Austria).

Loganradio is also dead on. With one day per city, you will (likely, I know I would) sleep in late, have a big breakfast and then leave to explore about noon. Explore for half a day, then eat dinner, relax and go to bed. It's almost a waste to stop in them unless you are just looking to check off boxes. You're doing this while visiting amazing cities with tons to do and see.

For example, my wife and I were in Vienna in December for my most recent ED. We were there for 3 days, and saw maybe 50% of stuff on our list to see. There are half a dozen palaces, the most beautiful opera house I've ever seen, gorgeous architecture, a historic horse riding school, a cathedral, cool bars, great food, fantastic people and a large downtown area that is fun to explore and just chews time. And the only line we ever stood in was for the subway and Glühwein.

We were also in Salzburg for three days and could have spent four more days there easy. We spent a day driving around the region (which is gorgeous), visited one of the many castles, and spent some time wandering the downtown area. The best drive I've ever taken in my life is outside of Salzburg, and I'm sure there are a dozen more out there waiting to be found in that area.

So when people say there is stuff to do, it isn't old people in rocking chairs that want to spend 15 hrs in a museum talking, then a day relaxing on a patio looking at a mountain (this is BMW forum...it's full of driving/exploring enthusiasts) there is really stuff to do.

If it was my itinerary, I'd axe the Nurburgring and everything after Milan, then change Milan into Lake Como. Head from Como back to Munich, drop the car off, go home. Then balance your days across the remaining cities. That will give you 18 days in 6 destinations and allow you to focus on what interests you (like seeing where you lineage is from, which you've already mentioned). It will also heavily cut down on your hotel changes, which get old, impact your plans (be out by X:XX AM in the morning) and burn up time. Alternately, cut everything after the Ring and rebalance you time between those cities. Just run the Ring on Forza a couple times before you leave to maximize your enjoyment.

Your itinerary reminds me of people that go to Disney World and try to hit every attraction in week. They over-plan, get behind, get frustrated, hurry between places and end their vacation exhausted and find that they didn't enjoy it much.

This is just my 2 cents. Feel free to ignore it, but I'd love to hear how your trip ends up regardless.

One other thing - keep in mind that every single country you travel too will have its own traffic laws. You will need to be familiar with them before you leave or you could literally end up in an uncomfortable place.
Hey thanks, I appreciate all this. Hell of a post. I'll look at the whole thing and see what I might be able to reconfigure. Also, regarding the driving laws...did you experience anything odd? I know there's the ED wiki on this site that contains alot of info but anywhere else?
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:12 PM
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Aggie says it all spot-on

- but maybe the Nurburgring is high up on your agenda, so do that, spread your time out more elsewhere, not necessarily longer in the cities but taking in some of the many interesting towns and villages off your route, and do more in Switzerland before dropping off your car in Zurich and flying back from there. It really is too much to do any stuff South of Lake Como - leave that for another time.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:48 PM
hamlyn hamlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I placed my order on Tuesday night so I am in contact witht he dealership about arranging a delivery date and whatnot. But I have been planning the trip for almost a year so I am pretty sure about where I want to go, at least right up until the last few days.

Here it is:

Day 1 (Friday): Fly to Munich
Day 2: Arrive Munich
Day 3: Munich
Day 4 (Monday): Delivery, drive to Salzburg via Berchtesgaden and German Alpine Road
Day 5: Depart Salzburg, drive to Vienna
Day 6: Vienna
Day 7: Depart Vienna, drive to Krakow
Day 8: Krakow
Day 9: Depart Krakow, drive to Prague
Day 10: Prague
Day 11: Depart Prague, drive to Nurburgring - drive the Ring
Day 12: wake up, drive the Ring again, head south toward Switzerland, try to take in an hour or so of driving in the Black Forest, end up in Zurich
Day 13: Zurich (maybe go to Lucerne...not sure. People have told me Zurich isn't too exciting.
Day 14: Depart Zurich, drive to Milan via San Bernardino Pass
Day 15: Milan
Day 16: Depart Milan, drive to Nice - maybe drop off car
Day 17: Maybe drop off car, maybe spend day in Nice, maybe come home
Day 18: if not already home, come home.

There may be time in here to spend a full day at Nurburg. And maybe time to spend two full days in Nice after dropping off the car, or maybe one day in Zurich and one day in Lucerne.

Crappy thing about this itinerary is that we get back mid-week. I can either power through and work a few days like a zombie when I get back or just take all 3 weeks off. But my wife would definitely have to work.

If it were up to me, we'd cut out Italy and France and save it for another trip...but she really wants to go to Italy. Thing is, May temps in Nice average only 20 Celsius....so it shouldnt be expenvise to stay but it's not like we'll be spending our last day lounging on the beach.

Either way I am pumped. It's about 5 hours driving every other day. Seems like a lot but that's what I'm there for. I like the idea of having a day or two in each city to get a tate and decide which ones I'd like to visit again.
Speaking strictly for myself, 9 places in 16 days is somewhat ambitious (18 days minus two travel days).
Milan is nice, however, Lake Como and perhaps Venice might be better places to spend time in Italy. If you want to venture a little deeper south, consider Florence. Venice and/or Florence might be better visits.

Spend time in Munich and visit the Alps. Munich is a city with history and culture. There is plenty to do and see.

Prague is supposed to be one of the jewels of Europe. Definitely visit.

Nurburg and Nurburgring, from what I hear, is a driving enthusiast's dream.

Folks will recommend that you plan to spend at least two days in each place.

I can't comment on your other destinations.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:07 PM
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sno_duc sno_duc is offline
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Roads in the Geman speaking parts of europe are generally super, the flip side of the coin is road construction. (km. after km......does it ever end )
So when I say it took us 4 1/2 hrs, you might get lucky and do the same drive in 3 hrs or unlucky and take 6 hrs.
On the mountain passes you'll encounter tour buses and bicycles, both will add time to the drive.
In Italy it's tollboths, they are every where on the autostrasa, 1 minute here 2 minutes there adds up.

Pad Goggles drive times by at least 20%, try to avoid rush hours. (best way to deal with rush hour is from a sidewalk cafe with a cold drink in hand )

If it were me, I'd cut out a few stops and spend more time in each. There is always next trip.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:26 PM
Itgb Itgb is offline
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Like everyone else says, I would prioritize what is most important for you to see. If you say Munich(since you pickup there), Poland, Nurburgring, and Switzerland; that is plenty for that length of trip. Italy should be an entirely separate trip altogether(and I wouldn't waste my time with Milan either). Just looking at your itinerary, there is no way I would drive 6+hrs from Prague to the Nurburgring, and then feel like I would have the energy or concentration to get on the track. You will completely burn yourself out within a week.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:51 AM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Oh crap I thought it was loaded up and shipped on a truck from the drop off locations.
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:35 AM
neurom neurom is offline
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Relax, a random chain smoking italian dude will not drive your car outside of the Italy dropoffs, the Swiss only hire their own random dudes. Seriously, it applies only to Italy.
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  #20  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:11 AM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Phew!
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  #21  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:56 AM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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I'm still trying to sort out where to spend extra time if I cut out Milan and Nice.

I can't extend the visits to each of Salzburg, Vienna, Krakow, and Prague by a day...but I can extend some by a day. Krakow and Prague? Prague and Nurburg? Hard to know fi you've never been there. Another option would be to spend a night somewhere in/around the black forest after Nurburgring.

I dunno...
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:48 AM
gesoffen gesoffen is offline
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Jtuds - as you're probably realizing, most of the seasoned ED'ers/European Travelers here on the fest tend to have a more relaxed pace. Yes there are a few "Griswold's" here that just want to visit as many places as possible just to get their own picture of the famous cites but for the most part, people here tend to want to spend time at local cafe's/gasthauses/biergartens and soak up the atmosphere. I prefer the slower pace of travel myself as you definitely feel more relaxed and you notice much more of the subtle differences in culture that makes every place unique.

One other consideration for you: many of your original destinations are relatively accessible via direct flight or rail/air connections from the US (Vienna, Prague, Milan, etc). Consider saving some of those for a non ED related vacation(s) where you can fly in, explore and train/fly on to another easily accessible city. Not to mention, many of these cities are a headache with a car (traffic, parking, one way/ped only zones, Environmental zones, etc). I suggest focusing on smaller, of the beaten path points of interest that are more car friendly. Consider narrowing your "must-do" list down to 3 or 4 points of interest and then populate the time in between with points of interest along the way. Also, consider having most of these days as unscheduled (e.g. no specific hotel reservations) to allow you the freedom to explore more in one area or move on sooner.

For example: You mentioned Krakow as a must see due to family history. Upon departing Munich, you could take a southerly path and visit Cesky Krumlov or Ceske Budejovice on the way to split travel time. There are several smaller points of interest on a more central or northerly route too.

All that said, it doesn't sound like you are a novice when it comes to Europe. So if you know your own ideal pace and level of interest in what most typical European cities have to offer, have fun! Most here will still be jealous of your vacation, especially as we're sitting behind our computer keyboards.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:54 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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Those are all great cities that merit more time than a "drive by". Prague alone merits 3 or days and you will not have seen all of the great sites. Sending a few hours in each city is a waste of time. Besides you will return again to do BMW European Delivery.
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  #24  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:41 AM
jtuds jtuds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
Those are all great cities that merit more time than a "drive by". Prague alone merits 3 or days and you will not have seen all of the great sites. Sending a few hours in each city is a waste of time. Besides you will return again to do BMW European Delivery.
I'm not planning on spending a few hours anywhere...i will be at least a full day in each city except I just don't know what all these great sites are aside from the ones I already know about.

The question I am trying to answer is: Do I want to just go and see the main attractions I know about then move on, or do I want to have time to see the main attractions as well as find out about and explore other things that will peak my interest that I don't already know about....

I'll try to explain what I mean:

Salzburg - I want to see that castle on the hill
Vienna - no idea, my wife is a psychiatrist and wants to go there because of Freud
Krakow - Au*****z, and looking around at the Old Town
Prague - castle, charles bridge, that old clock
Nurburgring - it's obvious
Zurich - no idea...mountains and scenery I guess
Milan - that really old mall where I know I won't be able to afford anything, and my wife wants to go to Italy so I'm throwing her a bone
Nice - views along the Riviera

These are all the things I know about in the places we are going to visit. I absolutely know there will be things I will see and say "man I really want to go check that out but I don't have time" ...I just wish I knew what those things will be ahead of time so I'd be able to plan this trip better. What's killing me is that you just don't know till you get there....

If it were up to me, I'd cut out Milan and Nice entirely...but the wife...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gesoffen View Post
All that said, it doesn't sound like you are a novice when it comes to Europe. So if you know your own ideal pace and level of interest in what most typical European cities have to offer, have fun! Most here will still be jealous of your vacation, especially as we're sitting behind our computer keyboards.

Hey thanks for the input. I do see where you are coming from. I prefer slow travel too, but I always let my "gotta do everything right now" urges get the better of me. If I could do it my way, I'd fly to Munich one way with a backpack and no itinerary and come home when I ran out of money...but Bimmers require jobs and employers like scheduled vacations.

One thing I have been considering is not really booking hotels and just having a return date set...it will be pricier, but at least I'd never feel rushed...

Last edited by jtuds; 01-22-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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  #25  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:19 AM
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sno_duc sno_duc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I just don't know what all these great sites are aside form the ones I already know about.
Vienna - no idea, my wife is a psychiatrist and wants to go there because of Freud
First thing to do is ride the "Ringstrasse Tram", Vienna use to be a walled city, when the wall came down it was turned into a broad ring shaped street, alot of important churches and government buildings line it.

St. Stephens cathedral, take the english speaking tour, if time allows tour the catacombs.

Hapsburg palace, this is at least a full day.

Spend a couple of hours at one of the numerous coffee houses.

Ride the ferris wheel. (rent a copy of the movie "The Third Man")


I know I failed to mention other must do's, this is just a short off the top of my head list.
Vienna can keep you busy for a solid week, and you'll still have things you wish you would have done.
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