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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:55 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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In your face F30 drivers!

I was reading a November 2012 Car and Driver "comparo" between a 2013 BMW 328i and a 2013 Cadillac ATS. The 328i barely won and in the article I found this remark.

"We're convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against an F30."

Ouch! That's gotta hurt.

Last edited by BashedBarrique; 02-08-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:00 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Oh, and I know that the whole 325, 328, 330, 335 thing isn't engine size based anymore but how do these new four bangers get away with numbers way bigger than their engine displacements?

And am I the only one that did a spit take when he heard that the new 3 series base engine was gonna be an inline four cylinder? I LOVE the 3.0 liter six in my 325i and can't imagine hearing a four banger churning away up behind the roundel.
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:08 PM
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lqaddict lqaddict is offline
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
Oh, and I know that the whole 325, 328, 330, 335 thing isn't engine size based anymore but how do these new four bangers get away with numbers way bigger than their engine displacements?

And am I the only one that did a spit take when he heard that the new 3 series base engine was gonna be an inline four cylinder? I LOVE the 3.0 liter six in my 325i and can't imagine hearing a four banger churning away up behind the roundel.
I have a z4 (while my e90 gets put back together) with the 4-banger in it, if I didn't tell you I bet you wouldn't know if you stood next to it let alone in the cabin.
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Last edited by lqaddict; 02-08-2013 at 06:10 PM.
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  #4  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:31 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
I have a z4 (while my e90 gets put back together) with the 4-banger in it, if I didn't tell you I bet you wouldn't know if you stood next to it let alone in the cabin.

Well, I went to C&D's website and found this.

"Thanks to balance shafts and a dual-mass flywheel, this engine never gets the shakes or stammers, and it’s as genteel as a six when soft-pedaled. A two-mode muffler corks the din during cruising and then releases a rousing howl to accompany the stampede."

So it looks like the BMW engineers have tamed the 4 cylinder's inherent imbalance. Meh, give me a sweet in line six any day in a sports sedan. Don't get me wrong I own a Toyota MR2 with a fiery little 1.6 4A-GE engine and a 1990 Miata with a 1.6 B6ZE four banger, they are both great little engines that love to rev to their limiters but c'mon!

The BMW inline six is legendary for its power and smoothness. At least I got one before the CAFE killed them.
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:24 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
I have a z4 (while my e90 gets put back together) with the 4-banger in it, if I didn't tell you I bet you wouldn't know if you stood next to it let alone in the cabin.
Just so you don't get the wrong idea. I think Z4's are great cars with either the 4 or the 6 cylinder engine. I just think a 3300lb luxury/sports sedan with a 4 cylinder is a stretch.

Before I bought my 325i I drove several Acura TSX's with the 2.4 liter four and they were buzzy and lacked torque and overall smoothness. And that's a Honda V-tech engine that is one of the best fours around.

I know that the F30 is a different beast (turbo, balance shafts etc.) but it's still a four cylinder and that's a label that no other sports/luxury car has pulled off in the past.
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2013, 04:13 AM
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boramkiv boramkiv is offline
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
Before I bought my 325i I drove several Acura TSX's with the 2.4 liter four and they were buzzy and lacked torque and overall smoothness. And that's a Honda V-tech engine that is one of the best fours around.
What's a V-tech engine?
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:58 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
What's a V-tech engine?
"VTEC ( Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control)) is a valvetrain system developed by Honda to improve the volumetric efficiency of a four-stroke internal combustion engine. The VTEC system uses two camshaft profiles and hydraulically selects between profiles. It was invented by Honda engineer Ikuo Kajitani,[1][2] and was the first system of its kind.[citation needed] Different types of variable valve timing and lift control systems have also been produced by other manufacturers (MIVEC from Mitsubishi, AVCS from Subaru, VVT-i/VVTL-i from Toyota, VANOS from BMW, VarioCam Plus from Porsche, NeoVVL from Nissan, etc.)."

Notice that Honda introduced it before BMW.

Last edited by BashedBarrique; 02-09-2013 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
"VTEC ( Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control)) is a valvetrain system developed by Honda to improve the volumetric efficiency of a four-stroke internal combustion engine. The VTEC system uses two camshaft profiles and hydraulically selects between profiles. It was invented by Honda engineer Ikuo Kajitani,[1][2] and was the first system of its kind.[citation needed] Different types of variable valve timing and lift control systems have also been produced by other manufacturers (MIVEC from Mitsubishi, AVCS from Subaru, VVT-i/VVTL-i from Toyota, VANOS from BMW, VarioCam Plus from Porsche, NeoVVL from Nissan, etc.)."

Notice that Honda dintroduced it before BMW.
Yes, that's V-TEC.
You said V-TECH which is company that makes electronic toys not engines.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:10 PM
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Uh, ok. Welcome to 2012.
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:34 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Uh, ok. Welcome to 2012.
Yeah, I'm a newbie. I just got my first BMW three weeks ago. I knew about the F30 having a 4 cylinder but didn't give it much thought until I became a BMW owner.

It looks like I'm getting here just as the party is ending!
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  #11  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:40 PM
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Yeah, I'm a newbie. I just got my first BMW three weeks ago. I knew about the F30 having a 4 cylinder but didn't give it much thought until I became a BMW owner.

It looks like I'm getting here just as the party is ending!
Welcome to the fest.

Suggestion: Lurk more, post less.

Lot of extremely helpful people here. However, if you develop a reputation for poking people in the eye (like this thread) with no post history (which you do not have) on a subject that has been done to death (like this one), the regulars are going to be less than impressed.

Trust me on this, it is not the direction you want to head.

Either way, welcome.
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  #12  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:52 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Welcome to the fest.

Suggestion: Lurk more, post less.
Suggestion: Make less suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Lot of extremely helpful people here. However, if you develop a reputation for poking people in the eye (like this thread) with no post history (which you do not have) on a subject that has been done to death (like this one), the regulars are going to be less than impressed.
Oh my, wouldn't want the "regulars" to be unimpressed. I searched this topic and found nothing in particular. Besides the poke in the eye was from Car and Driver not me. The article is all of four months old so it's not like I drudged up an issue of Sports Car Illustrated from 1969.

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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Trust me on this, it is not the direction you want to head.
Do you have an on topic comment or not? If not it's called trolling.



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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Either way, welcome.
You aren't very good at welcomes are you?

Last edited by BashedBarrique; 02-08-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:54 PM
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Suggestion: Make less suggestions.



Oh my, wouldn't want the "regulars" to be unimpressed. I searched this topic and found nothing in particular. Besides the poke in the eye was from Car and Driver not me. The article is all of four months old so it's not like I drudged up an issue of Sports Car Illustrated from 1969.



Do you have an on topic comment or not? If not it's called trolling.





You aren't very good at welcomes are you?
I'm sure you will make lots of friends here.

Good luck.
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2013, 05:30 PM
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Suggestion: Make less suggestions.


"Fewer", not less.
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  #15  
Old 02-11-2013, 07:56 AM
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Welcome to the fest.

Suggestion: Lurk more, post less.
Who, the f, is u?

Never seen you before. You got 12k posts, but where do you lurk. Certainly not in this subforum
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  #16  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:48 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Who, the f, is u?

Never seen you before. You got 12k posts, but where do you lurk. Certainly not in this subforum
Yeah, quite the welcome from MMME30W. It's always a nice way to welcome some one by telling them to shut up.
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:58 PM
S85FTW S85FTW is offline
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I don't know what f30 to e90 comparison they are talking about. My wife's e90 328xi is leaps and bounds faster and better than her e90 328xi ever was. The f30 is a ton faster, has better gas mileage and has more low end torque. So yeah I guess the e90 wins.....hahahahaha
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  #18  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:15 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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I don't know what f30 to e90 comparison they are talking about. My wife's e90 328xi is leaps and bounds faster and better than her e90 328xi ever was. The f30 is a ton faster, has better gas mileage and has more low end torque. So yeah I guess the e90 wins.....hahahahaha
I just found the quote and thought I'd throw it out there to "stir the pot". I have never driven an F30. I'm sure they are sensational cars. After all C&D did pick it as a Ten Best and it did win the comparo with the Caddy.

The F30 4 cyl turbo is faster and gets better MPG than the E90 six, but BMWs often win comparos against cars that are faster and get better mileage.

A car is more than numbers.
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:09 AM
mr_bean mr_bean is offline
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
I just found the quote and thought I'd throw it out there to "stir the pot". I have never driven an F30. I'm sure they are sensational cars. After all C&D did pick it as a Ten Best and it did win the comparo with the Caddy.

The F30 4 cyl turbo is faster and gets better MPG than the E90 six, but BMWs often win comparos against cars that are faster and get better mileage.

A car is more than numbers.
Agreed. I had an F30 loaner a couple of months ago. The engine was great in all respects. But (and this a big but) it still sounded like a 4 cylinder. Not a low rumble you might get from an old MG or Triumph, but a raspy whine you get from a Japanese compact. It was kind of strange. The sound didn't reflect what I felt in the seat of my pants.
I'll take the straight 6, please.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:09 PM
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Chop362 Chop362 is offline
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I test drove one...Me no like. Did the article happen to mention that the F30 looks wise doesn't measure up either??Better get a hood delete asap!!E90 lives on!!!
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:15 PM
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Had an new 328 as a loner when my car was in for service this week. It was a 4 door but was quick, competent & got good mileage. Seat of the pants it seemed quicker then my 330Ci.
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  #22  
Old 02-10-2013, 07:59 AM
Robcromar Robcromar is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Had an new 328 as a loner when my car was in for service this week. It was a 4 door but was quick, competent & got good mileage. Seat of the pants it seemed quicker then my 330Ci.
I too, have driven brand new 328i loaners over the past couple of weeks while my 2010 E90 was being serviced. The F90 is quick, smooth - I noticed only minimal turbo lag. I did notice the F90's engine sound during routine city driving is a little reminiscent of other 4 cyl - some mechanical cacophony that i don't hear in my E90.

Where I find the F90 a little off the mark (compared to E90) is the interior design has taken a turn toward the plastic look and feel of some Japanese cars. Not too much, but I prefer the solid, efficient interior of my E90.
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  #23  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Robcromar View Post
I too, have driven brand new 328i loaners over the past couple of weeks while my 2010 E90 was being serviced. The F90 is quick, smooth - I noticed only minimal turbo lag. I did notice the F90's engine sound during routine city driving is a little reminiscent of other 4 cyl - some mechanical cacophony that i don't hear in my E90.

Where I find the F90 a little off the mark (compared to E90) is the interior design has taken a turn toward the plastic look and feel of some Japanese cars. Not too much, but I prefer the solid, efficient interior of my E90.
The major bitch I had with the interior is the nav screen stuck on top of the dash. Our X3 has the same thing & its not very attractive IMHO.
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  #24  
Old 02-10-2013, 06:27 PM
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The major bitch I had with the interior is the nav screen stuck on top of the dash. Our X3 has the same thing & its not very attractive IMHO.
I do agree with this. My 09 328xi w/ iDrive built into the dash which I think is really stylish. The new navs look like their added on versus being part of the car. On the whole though? LOVE the F30 style.
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  #25  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
Just so you don't get the wrong idea. I think Z4's are great cars with either the 4 or the 6 cylinder engine. I just think a 3300lb luxury/sports sedan with a 4 cylinder is a stretch.

Before I bought my 325i I drove several Acura TSX's with the 2.4 liter four and they were buzzy and lacked torque and overall smoothness. And that's a Honda V-tech engine that is one of the best fours around.

I know that the F30 is a different beast (turbo, balance shafts etc.) but it's still a four cylinder and that's a label that no other sports/luxury car has pulled off in the past.
I am not trying to stir you towards the n20, however understand that the engine develops plenty of torque and power for a four cylinder - it delivers more of torque/hp than the inline six n52 it replaced. As yourself however, I have my reservations about the harmony the new n20 can deliver to the BMW line up. But history tends to repeat itself.
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