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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 02-13-2013, 11:54 PM
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BMW as a Dependable Car

It's behind industry average

VW is crap

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  #2  
Old 02-14-2013, 01:09 AM
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Not quite sure I understand what a "problem" is though. I've taken my Audi in for a software update here and there that I heard about online, and to get windshield washer nozzle alignment adjusted. So I guess there's 2 or 3 problems right there? I'd still call it a dependable car over my 2 years of ownership though.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:06 AM
shabadoo25 shabadoo25 is offline
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It's interesting to see where the Koreans fall on that list. The Hyundai Sonata was just named JD Power's most dependable mid-size sedan.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:06 AM
everettpa1 everettpa1 is offline
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It's a dopey survey. Toyota avoids the problems by recalling for everything. The only interesting thing is to see which manufacturers have changed a lot from the prior year and which ones are way below average. BMW is right on the average and that is fine by me.

VW is surprising. MB has gotten their act together. Rover? I'm trying to convince my wife to get a Range Rover Sport and this just killed that.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:34 AM
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No matter how you try and sell yourself into believing anything else, the fact remains that BMW's are not reliable cars. Especially, if you follow the "no maintenance-maintenance" schedule that BMW recommends (since it out of their pockets.) Sure, you may have a car right now that hasn't given you any problems. Consider yourself lucky and count that as the exception rather than the norm.

These car manufacturers will put their R&D dollars into where they think it will help sell the car. Toyota has built an image of a reliable and boring brand so that's what they focus their R&D dollars on because if not, then they will immediately get blasted in the press and such about how their cars aren't reliable. BMW, on the other hand has built their image on sporty and fun cars so that's where they focus their R&D dollars on. If they made a car that handled poorly, they would immediately get blasted from all angles. In theory, they could design a fun and sporty and reliable car but that would take lots of R&D and there's only so much money each manufacturer can allocate to each area.

The other fact remains that BMW has the highest lease rate of any manufacturer so most people only have the car for 3 years before they're given up and sold to another person. Usually, during this 3 years, nothing will go wrong and of course, there's no maintenance to bother the owner with so many people who lease these cars report that the car has been great. Of course, ask everybody with the N54 engine and I'm sure they'll tell you that keeping that car past 100k or was it 120k (that bmw extended the warranty on the hpfp to) if they think the car will last and I'm sure they pause before answering.

Good luck to all that think their BMW are reliable. Know what the positives of your car are and accept the negatives. Stop lying to yourself because we all know BMW are not reliable cars but they sure know how to make fun and good looking cars.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:48 AM
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Good luck to all that think their BMW are reliable. Know what the positives of your car are and accept the negatives. Stop lying to yourself because we all know BMW are not reliable cars but they sure know how to make fun and good looking cars.[/QUOTE]

I really don't understand some BMW owners. Always negitve. I'm on my 3rd BMW and not once was I left on the side of the road and I don't think that is unusaual. My 88 735i bought with 112,000 miles on it keep me going for 7 years and I only speant $2500 in 7 years to keep it running great. If that is not reliable I don't know what is.

I argree that they do cost more now then before to keep up with maintanence, but there is no reason to think it will ever break down and leave you stranded.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:16 AM
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sf_loft sf_loft is offline
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Originally Posted by jjp735i View Post

I really don't understand some BMW owners. Always negitve. I'm on my 3rd BMW and not once was I left on the side of the road and I don't think that is unusaual. My 88 735i bought with 112,000 miles on it keep me going for 7 years and I only speant $2500 in 7 years to keep it running great. If that is not reliable I don't know what is.

I argree that they do cost more now then before to keep up with maintanence, but there is no reason to think it will ever break down and leave you stranded.
Statistics and you've been on the good side of the curve. 2 new bimmers in 3 years, problems galore. They range from minor to hpfp which broke down on me 4x.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:46 AM
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Statistics and you've been on the good side of the curve. 2 new bimmers in 3 years, problems galore. They range from minor to hpfp which broke down on me 4x.
Exactly, like I said, if your BMW has been good, you'r the exception, not the norm. Also, I'd be curious to know how many miles you have on the car. If you put 5k miles on the car vs someone who drives over 20k miles on a car in a year, you're a lot less likely to encounter problems.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jjp735i View Post
Good luck to all that think their BMW are reliable. Know what the positives of your car are and accept the negatives. Stop lying to yourself because we all know BMW are not reliable cars but they sure know how to make fun and good looking cars.
I really don't understand some BMW owners. Always negitve. I'm on my 3rd BMW and not once was I left on the side of the road and I don't think that is unusaual. My 88 735i bought with 112,000 miles on it keep me going for 7 years and I only speant $2500 in 7 years to keep it running great. If that is not reliable I don't know what is.

I argree that they do cost more now then before to keep up with maintanence, but there is no reason to think it will ever break down and leave you stranded.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, if you've never owned a Toyota, you'll never know what a reliable car is. You don't have anything to compate to. Sounds like you might be one of those where you've always bought BMW's. Nothing wrong with that. That's your cup of tea. I'm not negative. I'm just saying it like it is. Even the report says Toyota's are more reliable so again, I'm not being negative. I'm just confirming what the report has said year over year over year over year. If you did a search for my name and the posts I've created regarding issues with my car, you'd see that I've had more than the "average" bmw issues. They ranged from HPFP, left exhaust flap, replaced dme, replaced fuel injectors, replaced oil filter housing. Dang and this is with 85k miles on the car. My wife's previous 2002 rx300 had over 220k miles with only 1 problem and it was still going strong.

...so not being negative. just calling it like I see it.
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  #10  
Old 02-18-2013, 08:57 AM
jjp735i jjp735i is offline
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
I really don't understand some BMW owners. Always negitve. I'm on my 3rd BMW and not once was I left on the side of the road and I don't think that is unusaual. My 88 735i bought with 112,000 miles on it keep me going for 7 years and I only speant $2500 in 7 years to keep it running great. If that is not reliable I don't know what is.

I argree that they do cost more now then before to keep up with maintanence, but there is no reason to think it will ever break down and leave you stranded.
Like I said, if you've never owned a Toyota, you'll never know what a reliable car is. You don't have anything to compate to. Sounds like you might be one of those where you've always bought BMW's. Nothing wrong with that. That's your cup of tea. I'm not negative. I'm just saying it like it is. Even the report says Toyota's are more reliable so again, I'm not being negative. I'm just confirming what the report has said year over year over year over year. If you did a search for my name and the posts I've created regarding issues with my car, you'd see that I've had more than the "average" bmw issues. They ranged from HPFP, left exhaust flap, replaced dme, replaced fuel injectors, replaced oil filter housing. Dang and this is with 85k miles on the car. My wife's previous 2002 rx300 had over 220k miles with only 1 problem and it was still going strong.

...so not being negative. just calling it like I see it.[/QUOTE]

I have owned Toyota's, 4 of them. I currently own a Scion tC 05 and the only thing I've done is rear breaks, rotors, and a front wheel bearing. 105,000 miles, 8 years old now on original battery. Yes they are much cheaper to own, but not even 1/8 the fun.

Keeping my fingers x that my 545i will make be proud like all my past BMW's.
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jjp735i View Post

I really don't understand some BMW owners. Always negitve. I'm on my 3rd BMW and not once was I left on the side of the road and I don't think that is unusaual. My 88 735i bought with 112,000 miles on it keep me going for 7 years and I only speant $2500 in 7 years to keep it running great. If that is not reliable I don't know what is.
Now if you spent that same 2500$ (out of tires and brakes) over only 20 months after the end of warranty (75K miles), would you feel the same?

That's where I am. I am not saying that it is unreliable (jury is still out on that one).

No additional preventive maintenance would have saved my 1119$ to fix that valve cover leak. Or change multiple ignition coils (did myself) - it was cyl. #2, later #4 and this month #5. The cost is an issue, but more so is the annoyances. Oh, dealer wanted to change my rear differential since they hear a noise. 3600$ * I declined *. But if someone buys my car and discover this through the dealer, I might be in some trouble (although I don't find it as real issue). However, net I am still far from the nightmare that I had with my old Audi (11000$ in 30 months) to bring it at 110000 miles.
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:55 AM
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Now if you spent that same 2500$ (out of tires and brakes) over only 20 months after the end of warranty (75K miles), would you feel the same?

That's where I am. I am not saying that it is unreliable (jury is still out on that one).

No additional preventive maintenance would have saved my 1119$ to fix that valve cover leak. Or change multiple ignition coils (did myself) - it was cyl. #2, later #4 and this month #5. The cost is an issue, but more so is the annoyances. Oh, dealer wanted to change my rear differential since they hear a noise. 3600$ * I declined *. But if someone buys my car and discover this through the dealer, I might be in some trouble (although I don't find it as real issue). However, net I am still far from the nightmare that I had with my old Audi (11000$ in 30 months) to bring it at 110000 miles.
All mechanisms and electrical components wear and break in time. IMO, regular service and not beating on a car will extend the inevitable.
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:48 AM
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energetik9 energetik9 is offline
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Good luck to all that think their BMW are reliable. Know what the positives of your car are and accept the negatives. Stop lying to yourself because we all know BMW are not reliable cars but they sure know how to make fun and good looking cars.
All I can speak from is experience, and while I am not naive to what is discussed here, I can attest to the fact all my BMW's have been reliable...TO ME. Two of those four have been long term owned and outside of the BMW warranty.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:43 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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All I can speak from is experience, and while I am not naive to what is discussed here, I can attest to the fact all my BMW's have been reliable...TO ME. Two of those four have been long term owned and outside of the BMW warranty.
I have generally had the same experience (except my N54 equipped cars). However, my long term cars are maintained to a modified version of Mike Miller's maintainance schedule. I have had many VAG products and have had MB products and, in my experience, BMW is the most reliable of the German makes. My last MB was a 2008 and it was horrid. I suppose they have improved their reliability in the past 4 years. Now that the HPFP problem has been rectified I expect to see BMW move back up to above-average reliability because that HPFP problem really killed BMW in the reliability surveys.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:35 AM
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ask everybody with the N54 engine and I'm sure they'll tell you that keeping that car past 100k or was it 120k (that bmw extended the warranty on the hpfp to) if they think the car will last and I'm sure they pause before answering.
If my n54 continues on as it is now and I was the kinda person to keep a car that long, without thinking I'd keep it. I got to see some pics yesterday of a 2007 335i running meth+cobb taking laps at a track in WV and just how much abuse it took and it was chugging along just fine.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:19 PM
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If my n54 continues on as it is now and I was the kinda person to keep a car that long, without thinking I'd keep it. I got to see some pics yesterday of a 2007 335i running meth+cobb taking laps at a track in WV and just how much abuse it took and it was chugging along just fine.
Next time you take your car in, ask your SA about the oil filter housing. Mine was just fixed because my iDrive was telling me that I needed oil. I noticed that it did this on two cycles and it was going through oil faster than normal. When I brought it in, I didn't even think of asking my SA to look into it. I brought the car in for other reasons and when I got it back, he told me about the oil filter housing leak and said he was booked but we can schedule it for another time to be fixed. It basically cost about $700 to fix if I remember correctly (under ext warranty) and I asked him if this was a common problem. He said it's very common and it's not a matter of if this will need to be replaced but when it will need to be fixed.

The thread seems to now have been hijacked and we're moving away from discussing dependability and moving on to discussing the sexiness of the cars so if you want to bring it back on target, that would be fine.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:21 PM
hhgolf hhgolf is offline
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It's not about the N54 anymore

"The other fact remains that BMW has the highest lease rate of any manufacturer so most people only have the car for 3 years before they're given up and sold to another person. Usually, during this 3 years, nothing will go wrong and of course, there's no maintenance to bother the owner with so many people who lease these cars report that the car has been great. Of course, ask everybody with the N54 engine and I'm sure they'll tell you that keeping that car past 100k or was it 120k (that bmw extended the warranty on the hpfp to) if they think the car will last and I'm sure they pause before answering. "



I agree that many new drivers are only concerned about the first 2-3 years of the life of the engine and that the N54 made headlines. But if you believe that the '09 and later N54 motors were engineered better, and that it's really the N20 motor that will dominate the US population, then that's where the conversation should be directed.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:43 AM
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this is why i dont understand all the dudes coming here lately and asking if they should get a 328 and their last car was a honda/toyota/some other dependable, "wiser" car. you're either into saving money or spending it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:53 AM
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It looks like BMW is about average. The difference from the "industry standard" is probably within the margin of error. So the BMWs are about as reliable as anything else. The big thing polls like this miss is the type of issue customer had. They give equal weight to a car catching fire and car having a missing floor mat.

The other interesting part about this story is that the brand with the lowest quality, Range Rover, had record sales last year. That shows the importance that most people put on the initial quality of their cars.

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Old 02-14-2013, 09:01 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Mb has come a long way. Just a few years ago they were way down there.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:01 AM
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thats probably more the result of Range Rovers being incredibly overpriced, and the people who buy them dont see repairs as necessarily something to worry about.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:32 AM
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You have to take these reports with a grain of salt becuase as someone else mentioned, they don't qualify what exactly constitutes an "issue" per 100 car. Therefore, this can range from something serious like a HPFP failing to a broken ash tray cover. Of course, at the end of the day anything wrong with a car is something wrong that needs to be fixed and you'll be inconvienenced with having to bring your car in.

Like, I said, there's a trade off with everything in life. You either get a reliable car like a toyota or a fun and stylish car like bmw. You can't have both. Pick one. Accept your choice and move on and deal with what it gives you.

Just know that BMW's are average when it comes to Toyotas. If oyu've never owned a Toyota, you'd never know any better so the BMW will be good to you but if you've owned a Toyota, then it won't ever measure up to Toyota standards.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:39 AM
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chuck92116 chuck92116 is offline
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If you take the worst (Landrover) and assume 2.2 issues per vehicle,

Well if I bought one, had two issues and got them resolved will I have more?

Or is 2.2 issues over a few years?

I don't see a big difference between 2 issues on a Landrover and 71% of all Lexus having issues ( assuming one issue per vehicle).

A side note

My 2008 VW GTi had the struts replaced when new (they were making noise), no more issues since purchase in 5 years.

My 2011 F10 has had no issues after 2 years of service.

So perhaps some vehicles have a lot of issues, and a lot of vehicles have no issues. Hard to tell from the survey.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck92116 View Post
If you take the worst (Landrover) and assume 2.2 issues per vehicle,

Well if I bought one, had two issues and got them resolved will I have more?

Or is 2.2 issues over a few years?

I don't see a big difference between 2 issues on a Landrover and 71% of all Lexus having issues ( assuming one issue per vehicle).

A side note

My 2008 VW GTi had the struts replaced when new (they were making noise), no more issues since purchase in 5 years.

My 2011 F10 has had no issues after 2 years of service.

So perhaps some vehicles have a lot of issues, and a lot of vehicles have no issues. Hard to tell from the survey.
I remember having a vehicle many years ago where I would get an undefined occasional noise from the Passenger door. After a few years of ownership, I had removed the door panel to repair the window that came off the track. Low and behold a lunch bag with unrecognizable contents. The old joke was to never get a car built on a Monday, Friday or day after a holiday!
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:13 AM
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kpgray kpgray is offline
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.......Just know that BMW's are average when it comes to Toyotas. If oyu've never owned a Toyota, you'd never know any better so the BMW will be good to you but if you've owned a Toyota, then it won't ever measure up to Toyota standards.
Well if some of your cars have roll up windows and basic controls (such as on/off fan and manual heat settings like some Toyotas and Hondas) you certainly have MUCH less to go wrong! Taking that logic, let us just look at the listed luxury cars:

Lexus = 71
Porsche = 94
MB = 115
Acura = 120
Cadillac = 128
BMW = 133
Infiniti = 138
Audi = 147
Volvo = 149
Jaguar = 164

BMW is in the middle as far as I can see.
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