WSJ article on new 3 series

Originally Posted by andy_thomas

Which markets?

Acura and Infiniti outside the US are "Honda" and "Nissan". BMW does not yet build cars exclusively for the US market - Honda and Nissan do. That is one competitive advantage the "Japanese" manufacturers have over BMW, which continues to build cars that have to work in over 80 markets .

A while ago I posited the theory that BMW should build cars only for the US market, and allow the range to diverge again, with big, 3.5 V6 engines (the engine configuration du jour in the US!), a comfy ride and cupholders for North America and Australia, and less powerful drivetrains with different dashboards elsewhere.

If these details about a 3.0 325i are true, it looks like something might be starting.

The day that they start making Bay Em Vay's for the American market instead of the German one is the day I stop considering Bay Em Vay as a viable contender for my next car.

It is because bimmers are designed for the German driving conditions that makes them so good compares to everyting else. If I want soft ride, sh*t for brakes, cupholders, and 0 to 60, I'll buy American and be done.

Originally Posted by Stuka

If I want soft ride, sh*t for brakes, cupholders, and 0 to 60, I'll buy American and be done.

So true.

Originally Posted by Stuka

. If I want soft ride, sh*t for brakes, cupholders, and 0 to 60, I'll buy American and be done.

COSIGN

Originally Posted by Stuka

The day that they start making Bay Em Vay's for the American market instead of the German one is the day I stop considering Bay Em Vay as a viable contender for my next car.

Well, that's already started (X3, X5). I'm not talking about a whole new car, just engine and drivetrain lines which suit different countries, and different suspension tuning, and a different dash. Given that the US market is very large and its needs are quite different from those elsewhere, it makes economic sense. That the car will become far removed from its cousins on German roads is probably neither here nor there for the bulk of US buyers, regardless of the feeling amongst the enthusiast community .

I can see a luxo-tuned 335i with a lower-revving, lower-tech, cleaned-up, hi-torque 3.5 inline six featuring lower gearing* - or perhaps a 3.6 litre V6 based on the 4.8 V8 - selling very well. It wouldn't be that bad to drive. Headline figures such as 270 bhp and over 250 lb-ft are practically guaranteed to draw those buyers who choose their cars on such bases.

* The 330i for the EU market is geared pretty tall. I would wager that versions destined for life outside the EU to have a lower final drive.

Originally Posted by andy_thomas

* The 330i for the EU market is geared pretty tall. I would wager that versions destined for life outside the EU to have a lower final drive.

Yes, I believe you're correct. BMW uses lower final drives in US spec cars to achieve better 0-60 times. I guess that's fine since few people in the US will hit speeds where the ower ratio will impact the top speed of the car. I actually think that low final drive ratios are BMWs big "secret" as far as how they achieve similar acceleratin to cars with more horespower. Everyone talks about how BMW horses are "bigger", or that they must underrate their figures. but I really think its all about the final drive ratio. If you compare any other manufacturers models (even in the US market) you'll see that their gear ratios are higher. Gratned, I think the main reason BMW can do this is the smoothness of the sixes. If buyers had to deal with the Nissan V6s revving at 3-4k on the highway they probably wouldn't be too happy.

BTW, I really could care less about the whole 0-60 or horsepower thing-- I just think its interesting to note how BMW plays the game in the US market. But, now its actually just the horsepower number itself that people care about (not even the 0-60), they may have to start making big, oafish engines for the US. The idea is not without precedent-- the 80s eta engines were motly designed for the US (high torque, larger displacement, low revving).

Originally Posted by Stuka

None of these Japanese cars have brakes.

Try taking any of these cars to the track in anything but the D group, and what do you think happens to the already pathetic brakes.

These cars were not designed to run on the Autobahn like the Bay EM Vay, but the U.S. highway. I will never buy a car that was designed for the U.S. Cupholder? Don't care for it, smooth ride? maybe when I am 80 years old.

Ehm, what exactly are you talking about????? I am sure you are talking about the American market japanese cars....to be honest, japanese factories make them like that because you people want them like that, no other market gets them.

On the contrary, japanese cars are excellent in handling and braking over here.

Let me give you a quote:
EVO 8, (MITSUBISHI LANCER): Price: 23.000CYP, around 52k$, you get:
Turbo engine 2.0L, 320bhp, easily up to 400 bhp. 4 wheel drive, dymanic power distr. electronic control, 6 pot BREMBO BRAKES(!), rock solid ride.

Even the M3 CSL doesnt have that performance,(going AND stopping) and here a CSL would be around $159.000$ here.And it has single caliper brakes, which are gone after a hard lap or two. Talk about a race prepared car.....

So, I dont know which japanese cars you are talking about. Another example is RX8=, 4 seats, excellent performace.

And to be honest, if you compare roadsters, no one can ignore the s2000: this car has the fastest atmospheric engine (120bhp/litre) and you can get it to burn like a 1.4L car if you are careful on the pedal.

And, no one can argue with the reliability, right????

And, I can tell you, since I am not british, that the UK is NOT the most expensive EU country. Cyprus is....I know cause I am Greek Cypriot myself.

Originally Posted by robg

But, now its actually just the horsepower number itself that people care about (not even the 0-60), they may have to start making big, oafish engines for the US. The idea is not without precedent-- the 80s eta engines were motly designed for the US (high torque, larger displacement, low revving).

"Oafish" - funny . The eta engines were very popular in the UK, and other countries where no displacement-based road or registration tax is/was in force. Also the proliferation of diesels means that the concept of a nice, lazy drive is well-regarded - although the fuel economy of a conventionally-engineered 3.5 six probably won't be much to write home about.