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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 01-18-2005, 12:15 PM
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bluetree211 bluetree211 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchBoy
The Bimmerfester whose car was used for the pictures told me this was the case...

Fortunately, it seems that after a little bit of fighting, TMS has agreed to waive the labor cost.
TMS
Dont think you are fooling anyone but not stating the cost of installation; it usually means you are embarassed by how much money you plan on blindsiding us with on the bill
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  #27  
Old 01-18-2005, 12:24 PM
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Elwood Elwood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetree211
TMS
Dont think you are fooling anyone but not stating the cost of installation; it usually means you are embarassed by how much money you plan on blindsiding us with on the bill
prior argument aside, you now have a time ESTIMATE so "blindsiding" doesn't necessarily apply anymore.
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  #28  
Old 01-18-2005, 01:02 PM
LarryN LarryN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumratt
Sounds like there is some pretty bad blood from a past incident...

But all he posted here is a kit for $150, and DIY instructions. It's hard to argue they're luring us in and waiting to blindside us. He also admitted 8-10 hours labor.
I'd agree about the cost factor, but as for luring us in, Doug stated "The car we used for the photos for example,it was a customer's car, 100% street driven, 100,000 miles, the car never saw one day on the track" is not a 100,000 mile e46 with no track days, with a torn subframe. It was a perfectly fine 68+k mile car that gets tracked a lot, and does many autox events over the past 3 year without any problems.

It seems that we are lead to believe that any e46, even if you do not track it, is susceptable to this problem. This may or may not be the case in reality. However, the statement was not correct, and could lead people to a potential incorrect decision.
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  #29  
Old 01-18-2005, 02:07 PM
Andre Yew Andre Yew is offline
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You do not need to track an E46 to see this problem.

--Andre
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  #30  
Old 01-18-2005, 03:50 PM
EJEvo EJEvo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood
don't think I saw anyone say that was the case.
Oh, if only you knew the story...
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  #31  
Old 01-18-2005, 07:17 PM
Andre Yew Andre Yew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugmar
The lowest mileage car we have seen with this issue had 60,000 miles.
I just noticed this. My rear subframe tore out at 41K miles on a stock suspension car.

--Andre
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  #32  
Old 01-19-2005, 08:23 AM
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TurnerMS TurnerMS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryN
I'd agree about the cost factor, but as for luring us in, Doug stated "The car we used for the photos for example,it was a customer's car, 100% street driven, 100,000 miles, the car never saw one day on the track" is not a 100,000 mile e46 with no track days, with a torn subframe. It was a perfectly fine 68+k mile car that gets tracked a lot, and does many autox events over the past 3 year without any problems.

It seems that we are lead to believe that any e46, even if you do not track it, is susceptable to this problem. This may or may not be the case in reality. However, the statement was not correct, and could lead people to a potential incorrect decision.
Actually, you are correct about the photos - kinda- However, the photos you're referring to Larry are the ones in our instruction sheet. Those aren't the photos I was talking about.

Earlier in this thread, when I mentioned photos, I was referring to the photos of the car with sheet metal damage, these photos are on our website. It was not intended to be leading people into buying something they didn't need. So the statement was correct. You simply misunderstood.

Here are the photos I was orignally referring to were the ones we have on our site:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TDR4675412





If you need me to clear up any other misconceptions you may have regarding anything we do here, feel free to email me Larry. I'd be happy to do that for you.

Doug

Last edited by TurnerMS; 01-19-2005 at 10:18 AM.
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  #33  
Old 01-19-2005, 08:40 AM
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TurnerMS TurnerMS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchBoy
The Bimmerfester whose car was used for the pictures told me this was the case...

Fortunately, it seems that after a little bit of fighting, TMS has agreed to waive the labor cost.
Guys... I posted this product info to help you guys out and answer some questions you may have had. WOW, there seems to be a lot of anger towards us here! Trust me, we're good guys here! We try to keep the customer happy and if they aren't, we don't sleep at night. We're enthusiasts just like you, we're not the type of place that "blindsides" the customer by any means. If we practiced business that way, there would be a lot more negative posts about TMS, and I doubt we'd even be here after all these years.

Yes, there was a misunderstanding between the customer and our service dept. I was unaware of this until today, so I was as confused as some of you here were when I was reading this. I now see I was lead into something else. If anyone that has been here at TMS, you already know I am in a completely different building from the service dept, which is about 2 miles away. I had no idea until today that this was even going on. I have spoken to Kevin and Will and they tell me that we have since apologized for the misunderstanding and absorbed the cost of all the parts and labor for this customer's install. I hope all is well between us again, afterall, that is all we want.

It was a misunderstanding more than anything, if anyone has any questions regarding the details, I'd prefer to answer questions privately. I'll be happy to fill you in via email.

dugmar@turnermotorsport.com

Thanks again,

Doug
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2005, 01:27 PM
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scottn2retro scottn2retro is offline
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Hi All -

I'll chime in here as a point of reference for pricing for this kind of work. We had to have some rear subframe work done on the race car. It is a lot of work and welding - about 8 hours as Doug has said. The kit used on our car was not from TMS and the shop that did the work was out here in SoCal, but the total bill was definitely quite a bit more than what Doug has estimated.
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Last edited by scottn2retro; 01-19-2005 at 09:44 PM.
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  #35  
Old 01-19-2005, 02:53 PM
Ace Ace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugmar
Guys... I posted this product info to help you guys out and answer some questions you may have had. WOW, there seems to be a lot of anger towards us here! Trust me, we're good guys here! We try to keep the customer happy and if they aren't, we don't sleep at night. We're enthusiasts just like you, we're not the type of place that "blindsides" the customer by any means. If we practiced business that way, there would be a lot more negative posts about TMS, and I doubt we'd even be here after all these years.

Yes, there was a misunderstanding between the customer and our service dept. I was unaware of this until today, so I was as confused as some of you here were when I was reading this. I now see I was lead into something else. If anyone that has been here at TMS, you already know I am in a completely different building from the service dept, which is about 2 miles away. I had no idea until today that this was even going on. I have spoken to Kevin and Will and they tell me that we have since apologized for the misunderstanding and absorbed the cost of all the parts and labor for this customer's install. I hope all is well between us again, afterall, that is all we want.

It was a misunderstanding more than anything, if anyone has any questions regarding the details, I'd prefer to answer questions privately. I'll be happy to fill you in via email.

dugmar@turnermotorsport.com

Thanks again,

Doug

well done doug! i for one applaud your initiative to provide a preventative measure (at a reasonable price) against a problem that really should be addressed by BMW as a safety recall. and you have handled yourself quite well inspite of the misunderstandings presented in this thread. it seems that there was a problem with a customer and you have resolved the issue! you're good in my books!! we need more shops and service like you guys around!
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  #36  
Old 01-19-2005, 09:26 PM
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brave1heart brave1heart is offline
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OK, some explanation is in order. I was really hoping to stay out of this but I feel that at this point, it would be unfair to TMS if I did not straighten some facts out.

The car used for the pictures in the installation instructions is my '01 325i, which sees 7-8 track days and 8-9 autocross events a year. The car has not had a rear subframe failure (yet), so the first picture on the instructions showing the torn sheetmetal is someone else's. I was contacted by TMS to see if I'd be interested in having the rear subframe reinforcement kit installed in my car and that it would be free of charge. They would use the install to test the process before it was officially posted on the website and would also take pictures for the installation instructions. I agreed and when I stopped by to pick up the car at TMS, I found out that we had a misunderstanding about the financial arrangement. We decided to think it over the weekend. The issue was resolved on Monday morning when TMS agreed that the kit and install would be free of charge to me and even picked up the cost of replacing a broken front swaybar link, which they had uncovered.

It was never my intent to discuss this on internet boards as TMS picked up the tab in full on Monday morning and the issue was financially resolved at that point. There are no hard feelings. I have had my car worked on a few occasions at TMS in the past and have always had a positive experience. If anyone in the Boston area is interested in taking a look at the work that was done on my car, PM me and I'd be glad to show it to you.

And last, I think it is important to know that today Will Turner personally addressed the issue in an e-mail to me. I believe his e-mail proves that it is truly important to TMS and him personally that every TMS customer leaves their shop happy. I will take the liberty of posting parts of his e-mail below:


.................................................. .................................
I have been following the situation with your recent experience with
TMS. First let me assure you that our intentions (TMS's, Mine, and
Kevin's) were not to take advantage of you in any way. When Kevin and I
discussed calling a local customer to offer them the rear subframe kit
install it was always our intention to give the parts for free and give
labor at the best rate we could.

I understand now by your email , and by speaking to Kevin, that you
were under the impression that the whole job would be free of charge.
Since this was a misunderstanding and since I was not involved in any of
the discussion - I have no problem covering the labor on the job. We
will learn from this for next time and make it clearer to our customers
of our intentions. No problem. I appreciate you letting us use your car
for our photographs etc - losing our server really set us back.

...........................................

I will void this whole invoice, you owe us nothing, no hard feelings
for the misunderstandings.

Thank You

-Will Turner
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Last edited by brave1heart; 01-19-2005 at 09:29 PM.
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  #37  
Old 01-20-2005, 04:21 AM
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Has anyone here seen BMW's fix for this PROBLEM? They say it affects E46's up to Feb 2000.
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  #38  
Old 01-20-2005, 10:16 AM
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FrenchBoy FrenchBoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtboy
Has anyone here seen BMW's fix for this PROBLEM? They say it affects E46's up to Feb 2000.
Dirtboy,

Thanks for the info. It is re-assuring to see that BMW addressed this problem and that hopefully my June '01 car is not affected by this ailment.

Also, I am glad to see that we are all friends again

FrenchBoy
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  #39  
Old 01-20-2005, 10:43 AM
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I've spent a considerable amount of money with TMS over the past couple months in the suspension rebuild of my e30. I have found them to be exceptionally customer focused. There's no way, in my mind, that they would try to take advantage of anyone.

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  #40  
Old 01-22-2005, 01:03 PM
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Any chance that's why we have the CDV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumratt
Any word on the rumors that the tearing is caused mostly due to a bad batch of sheet metal? There have been almost no reported cases on 2002+ vehicles (or is it 2001+). Of course, they are newer, so they've had less time to wear out.
I wonder if BMW started using the CDV (clutch delay valve) to cushon clutch engagement to reduce drivetrain shock and subframe fatigue... Anybody know when the CDV became standard?

I generally don't do hard launches in first and tend to floor it from second gear for the sake of smoothness. I am sure this is much easier on all the drivetrain mounting points.
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  #41  
Old 01-22-2005, 09:06 PM
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sp330i sp330i is offline
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For those of you that may not be following this other post, look here. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...hreadid=195602

While most failures are reported on MY 2000 and prior, there are several that are 2001 and above. I'm curious if it is more a function of mileage and not necessarily related to MY. Most MY 2001 and later 3s may not have have enough miles on them to experience the failure.
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