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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 05-03-2005, 06:37 AM
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wheel-man wheel-man is offline
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Novice Auto-X will be a go and some skidpad time. Got it. Thanks guys
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  #27  
Old 05-03-2005, 06:47 AM
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EdCT EdCT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
The big thing is to get some skidpad time.
The Skip Barber two-day school gives you at least a half day, each day, on a skid pad, a real one with water and a high powered rear drive pick up truck with bald rear tires.


Quote:
I haven't spun a car without meaning to in a LONG time. Catching oversteer is easy, deliberately maintaining a slide isn't.)
Well, then, you're a better driver than most, radial tires can be notoriously unpredictable once their slip angles have been compromised; you may think you've corrected just fine only to have the tire snap back to its preferred "shape"; energy released can send the tail violently in the other direction and before you know it, you're tail is wagging back and forth........you're a passenger at that point.

Ed
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2005, 06:56 AM
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Nick325xiT 5spd Nick325xiT 5spd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCT
The Skip Barber two-day school gives you at least a half day, each day, on a skid pad, a real one with water and a high powered rear drive pick up truck with bald rear tires.




Well, then, you're a better driver than most, radial tires can be notoriously unpredictable once their slip angles have been compromised; you may think you've corrected just fine only to have the tire snap back to its preferred "shape"; energy released can send the tail violently in the other direction and before you know it, you're tail is wagging back and forth........you're a passenger at that point.

Ed
A lot of that is the craptacular stock suspension. BMW's suspension is designed for massive snap oversteer. I haven't yet driven on a tire that had real snap back issues, and this range goes from Q-rated snows to racing compound tires.

That said, if the tail snaps back on you, that means you held your correction too long. It also often means that you were late in correcting in the first place as well.

Edit: And just because you've got tank slapper going doesn't mean that you're a passenger. You've still got a chance of recovering up until you're pretty damned far sideways. If you can hand over hand the wheel quickly enough, you can get away with a LOT.
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Last edited by Nick325xiT 5spd; 05-03-2005 at 06:58 AM.
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  #29  
Old 05-03-2005, 07:08 AM
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EdCT EdCT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
That said, if the tail snaps back on you, that means you held your correction too long. It also often means that you were late in correcting in the first place as well.
This is true and easy to demonstrate on the skid pad where speeds are relatively slow, but I've had a "tank slapper" happen to me at very high speed in a Dodge Viper and, as the Skip barber instructors say, once you're in it for the ride, just lock the brakes and ride it out, the one thing you absolutely don't want to happen is to regain traction while going in a direction NOT of your choosing, keeping the thing locked will at least give you a chance of sliding to a stop.

This is straight from some of the best instructors around, so I take it as good advice.

Ed
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2005, 07:13 AM
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Nick325xiT 5spd Nick325xiT 5spd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCT
This is true and easy to demonstrate on the skid pad where speeds are relatively slow, but I've had a "tank slapper" happen to me at very high speed in a Dodge Viper and, as the Skip barber instructors say, once you're in it for the ride, just lock the brakes and ride it out, the one thing you absolutely don't want to happen is to regain traction while going in a direction NOT of your choosing, keeping the thing locked will at least give you a chance of sliding to a stop.

This is straight from some of the best instructors around, so I take it as good advice.

Ed
The key is "once you're in it for the ride." And the point at which you're just in it for the ride depends a great deal on you. And if you're at all able to handle the wheel, you damned well ought to have it pointed in the right direction.

I've recovered tankslapper at ~100PH, for example.

Edit: And I've never had tankslapper on a skidpad. It's pretty hard to induce when speeds are that low, as the suspension needs to articulate to get a good slap going.
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  #31  
Old 05-03-2005, 08:40 AM
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EdCT EdCT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
The key is "once you're in it for the ride." And the point at which you're just in it for the ride depends a great deal on you.

I've recovered tankslapper at ~100PH, for example.
All I can say is, they're a lot of experienced race drivers with way more knowledge and experience than you who would strongly disagree with that statement.

I've recovered from tank slappers ( i like the term) as well, that's got nothing to do with the fact that some of them will catch you out.

I think you're in for a nasty surprise one day...., I just hope, for your sake, you don't get hurt.

Ed

Last edited by EdCT; 05-03-2005 at 08:51 AM.
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  #32  
Old 05-03-2005, 09:32 AM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel-man
...Soon, I will be enrolling in Skip Barbar for a 2day driving school and look forward to more teaching afterward. And I will freely admit that I'm not at the point to take my car to it's limits safely...
That's a great attitude and I think you'll have a lot of fun at the Skip Barbar class.
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  #33  
Old 05-07-2005, 12:28 PM
Chupracabre Chupracabre is offline
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Mein Auto: 2004 325 XI
I bought my 325XI in the winter and wanted to check out the DSC.

Man was that fun.

When into a skid on turn on purpose and then DSC popped in and corrected the car's attitude like right now.

Sounds like you had the same experience.
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