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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > Z Series > E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)

E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2002, 07:30 PM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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HMS Rollbar update...

Today was the last autocross to be be held this year by our local chapter of The SCCA.
And as such, the only impression that I would get of any improvement that the HMS rollbar may have contributed to the Sue Forbes Racing Hearing Associates/Leather Z 2001 M Rdstr until next year.

I may be repeating somebody else, but now I have the impression that the tail is following the head.
That is to say that when turning into a corner, there is more continuity from the front to the back.

I have my tire pressures dialed in (pyrometer readings have confirmed this).
The shocks were set at values that I've tried before (separate bump & rebound settings).
But today I experienced less understeer than I would previously get.

My impression is that the handling of the car has improved from a stability standpoint. I feel that the platform is allowing the suspension to do more of the work it is intended to do.

So, how'd we do?
Sue ran exceptionally fast in the first heat, just narrowly missing the fastest time of heat one (taken by an SM2 Fiero 4.3 Ltr V6).
It looked like I was going to have to wear a "white apron" but by the time that I ran in the third heat, the surface had warmed up enough for me to get past her time and ahead of a ZO6 in the process. In all fairness, though I beat the ZO6 by well over two seconds, he was on (freshly ARMOR ALL'd !!) showroom rubber.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2002, 09:13 PM
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phrider phrider is offline
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You've removed the Butt Strut and rely on the new rollbar for stiffening the rear of the chassis now, right? Did you test the car with both?
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2002, 10:52 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Front Strong Strut is the greatest. Then why do you need a Butt strut? Butt Strut is the greatest. Then why do you need a Body Brace. Body Brace is the greatest. Then why do you need etc...
Purchase a Z4.
Stick a Garmin etrex GPS unit on your dash using the stick on mount and see if you can tell the before and after difference.
On my M coupe it's stable. On a M roadster with a strut brace it's all over the place. Loose as a goose.
My "guess" is that the HMS roll bar will improve the looseness of the Z3 roadster. I look at it as half a roof.
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2002, 11:21 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Stygar
My "guess" is that the HMS roll bar will improve the looseness of the Z3 roadster. I look at it as half a roof.
Thinking about it (in respect to cowl shake), I'm not sure if that's the case.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2002, 05:15 AM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Stygar
Front Strong Strut is the greatest. Then why do you need a Butt strut? Butt Strut is the greatest. Then why do you need a Body Brace. Body Brace is the greatest. Then why do you need etc...
LOL!
You should be in SALES

Quote:
You've removed the Butt Strut and rely on the new rollbar for stiffening the rear of the chassis now, right? Did you test the car with both?
No, in fact, I did not even test the rollbar while the front strut was in place.
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1957 Austin-Healey 100/6 Wine Red
1961 McCulloch R1 go-kart Screaming Yellow
1995///M3 Coupe Dakar Yellow Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
1999///M Rdstr Cosmos Black Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
1999///M Coupe Estoril Blue Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
2001///M Rdstr Steel Gray
2011 X5 35i Sport Deep Sea Blue/Cinnamon
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2002, 06:45 AM
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phrider phrider is offline
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So you dumped both the front strut and the Butt Strut when you added the rollbar....?
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2002, 08:05 AM
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Our finite element models and real world defection tests show the load between the shock towers on Z3 coupes never exceeds 150 pounds force.

Still working on roadster data.
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2002, 08:25 AM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by phrider
So you dumped both the front strut and the Butt Strut when you added the rollbar....?
The butt strut never worked out with either exhaust system (Super Sprint or Eisenmann), so it has long since fallen by the wayside.
Make you a deal on it...?

And the front strut is an added accessory not recognized in Stock Category SCCA rules, so I take it off at events.

So the rollbar has replaced nothing other than the factory rollhoops. It does however, provide stability that I never felt with the butt strut.
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1957 Austin-Healey 100/6 Wine Red
1961 McCulloch R1 go-kart Screaming Yellow
1995///M3 Coupe Dakar Yellow Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
1999///M Rdstr Cosmos Black Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
1999///M Coupe Estoril Blue Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
2001///M Rdstr Steel Gray
2011 X5 35i Sport Deep Sea Blue/Cinnamon
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  #9  
Old 10-21-2002, 02:28 PM
mcoupejeff mcoupejeff is offline
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Does anyone know of a kit for a roll bar for the Mcoupe? I would rather do a premade kit, than have a custom roll bar made. Looking for safety, harness mounting capability, and stiffness. Thanks in advance!!!

JEFF
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  #10  
Old 10-21-2002, 06:00 PM
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phrider phrider is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonM
Our finite element models and real world defection tests show the load between the shock towers on Z3 coupes never exceeds 150 pounds force. Still working on roadster data.
So you've got strain gauges on a calibrated strut brace? I assume that was the easier part (sort of).

Now, where did you get the data to support the finite element modeling? Especially the dynamic data....
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2002, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by phrider


So you've got strain gauges on a calibrated strut brace? I assume that was the easier part (sort of).

Now, where did you get the data to support the finite element modeling? Especially the dynamic data....
I will post all of the design data if and when we go to production. A small army of people have been working on this for several months now.

Dynamic data is not required for FEA, only for modal analysis.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2002, 12:09 PM
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phrider phrider is offline
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Jon -- this deserves its very own thread.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2002, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by phrider
Jon -- this deserves its very own thread.
If and when we start selling them, I will start a new thread.
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2002, 04:29 PM
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phrider phrider is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonM
If and when we start selling them, I will start a new thread.
If you don't, we'd like to hear why. And how did you get the structure data...?
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2002, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by phrider
If you don't, we'd like to hear why. And how did you get the structure data...?
Connecting the two strut tower caps with a piece of metal is quite the challenge on a '01 M coupe. This assumes no interference with the hood, hoodliner or engine.
Working on it for over two years starting with my '00 M coupe. Design is done. Have to find someone that is into prototype development stuff with some integrity. Hoping to get a model made that I can send to some 3D CNC folks for quote.
Not counting my time, into it so far for around 2K. Spent $600 additional making just the strut caps. Not happy with the results. Respnse is that he will do it right the next time. Really torn on what to do next.
Once I get my breezeway enclosure project done, we'll look for someone new.


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  #16  
Old 10-23-2002, 10:22 AM
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JonM JonM is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Stygar

Not counting my time, into it so far for around 2K.
Not to mention the hours of engineering time and cpu time at EDS.
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