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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 05-09-2006, 07:34 AM
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SteVTEC SteVTEC is offline
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Spy photos of LWB version E60

http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphoto...-lwb-spy-photo



Quote:
BMW 5 Series LWB Spy Photo
by Hans G. Lehmann
Copyright by Lehmann Photo-Syndication
05-09-2006


For China and Middle East

BMW will follow Audi by adding a Long Wheel Base version to the standard 5-Series. Audi did that already last year by offering a longer Audi A6 in particular for the Chinese and Middle Eastern markets.

The photo is showing a prototype during a test drive in Munich. It has distinctly larger second side doors, suggesting that the car measures about 10 to 15 cm more in overall length than the standard 5-Series. The car is said to come on the market first in China by the end of this year, where it will also be produced.

Interesting. Guess this won't be available in the U.S, but one of the things I liked the best about the E60 was the rear seating accomodations. Very spacious.
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2006, 07:38 AM
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You can look at it as an alternative to the more expensive and ugly 7-series.
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2006, 03:02 PM
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I am NOT buying a BMW "Made in China" thank you very much.
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Old 05-09-2006, 04:39 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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If it was 30% cheaper would you?

I probably would if it was backed by BMW. Unfortunately, that is the way the world is heading. My Sony TV was made in Mexico believe it or not, and Hyundais, Toyotas and Hondas are made in the US.

You can look at it positively - brands are going global. But the jobs are moving out of the old country...
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2006, 05:33 PM
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If it was 30% cheaper

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung
I probably would if it was backed by BMW. Unfortunately, that is the way the world is heading. My Sony TV was made in Mexico believe it or not, and Hyundais, Toyotas and Hondas are made in the US.

You can look at it positively - brands are going global. But the jobs are moving out of the old country...
I agree that is indeed the way things are going. And from a professional view point, I am very happy with that. I am in the steamship business and we are looking at double digit cargo (a.k.a. import) growth each year for at least the next five years.

BUT, a BMW at a 30% discount, is no longer a BMW. What I mean by that, is that BMW has a reputation as a well engineered luxury brand. They would never reduce price that much since it takes away the "luxury" part of their successful branding. Korea makes good cars, but they appeal to a different market segment than the BMW because of the lower (a.k.a. "cheaper") price.
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  #6  
Old 05-09-2006, 07:17 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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I don't think you'll have a choice

If they go China, they should make all cars there. The price will come down gradually, not overnight, and those who don't make the move, will be out of business. Imagine if Toyota offered a Japanese Camry at 10% more - they'd be under serious competition from Honda. Looking at luxury cars, if Audi were to sell the A6 at 20% below a 5 series, made in China, and guaranteed lease residuals, I'd buy Audi. I'm an average Joe kind of guy - I shop at Target, not Saks.

But in the end - its all good. Equilibrium across the globe. Except, I'll be supporting my kids who may not have jobs...
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  #7  
Old 05-09-2006, 11:31 PM
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Hmm, it's only longer by a few centimeters... that doesn't seem like a big difference.
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Old 05-10-2006, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBU
I agree that is indeed the way things are going. And from a professional view point, I am very happy with that. I am in the steamship business and we are looking at double digit cargo (a.k.a. import) growth each year for at least the next five years.

BUT, a BMW at a 30% discount, is no longer a BMW. What I mean by that, is that BMW has a reputation as a well engineered luxury brand. They would never reduce price that much since it takes away the "luxury" part of their successful branding. Korea makes good cars, but they appeal to a different market segment than the BMW because of the lower (a.k.a. "cheaper") price.
I'm also in the steamship logistics business, and I agree with DBU.

Imagine BMW at 30% discount...that would dramatically affect MBZ, Lexus and even Infinity sales! Most likely BMW will keep most of the profit, instead of passing it to the consumer and lower their image. Like the previous gen 3 Series that were made in S.Africa. They were selling at the same price as the few made in Germany.
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2006, 12:16 AM
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The spy pic doesn't really look like a spy pic at all. The 5 looks just like any 5 on the street
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2006, 03:50 AM
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^ well yeah, that's generally the idea. Looks exactly the same except one is a tad longer and has a bit more room inside. Debadged or not otherwise indicated, you have to know what to look for.

LWB:



Regular:



You can tell that the rear door and window on the LWB are just about as long if not longer than the front door and window, vs noticeably shorter in the standard version.
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  #11  
Old 05-10-2006, 04:46 AM
Fantastic Five Fantastic Five is offline
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You know, it's amazing . . . I'm shocked at how many people out there are thinking of what is good for them or what will result in cheaper BMW's . . . but are totally missing the fact that increased industrialization and wealth for China is very bad for this country and the stability of the world.

China is a COMMUNIST country that has no intention of being a peaceful second fiddle to the United States. We've seen that communism as an economic system simply doesn't work, and it would never work in a vast country with a billion people. However, for whatever reason, the West (especially the US) over the last 20-30 years, and especially in the last 10 years, has decided to essentially subsidize this communist regime. By allowing China to be the manufacturer of the world, you are allowing communism there to survive when it otherwise would have been isolated and doomed to go the way of the Soviet Union.

The prevailing strategy is that if you create a symbiotic relationship with China, they will be less of a threat because they will have a lot to lose if they antagonize the West. Perhaps, but if those strategists are wrong . . . China could be a much bigger problem than the Soviet Union because by that time, they would have advanced thanks to our technology and gained wealth thanks to making all of our goods.

So before we go off and think how great it is that things like the E60 are now being produced in China because our business will be doing well or our cars will be cheaper . . .why doesn't anyone think about the true impact it will have on our beloved country??!! What's happened?!! How can it be that "Americans" are not about America anymore? Have we truly become an ungrateful and selfish society that only cares about our individual needs and have foresaken love of country and patriotism?

Oh, and let me anticipate the flurry of arguments that will be coming my way . . ."why did you buy a German car if you feel that way?" or "Why didn't you then buy a Ford?" Those are stupid responses because Germany is a peaceful democracy that is our ally, part of NATO, and a key nation in the EU - a peaceful confederation of states. So before I get such responses, let me put an end to it right now.

I think everyone who thinks a rising China is a good thing should really take a step back and think about it.

Last edited by Fantastic Five; 05-10-2006 at 04:51 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-10-2006, 07:21 AM
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LOL, well I personally would never buy a Chinese made or branded car and that's where I draw the line. You have to draw it somewhere. It's already hard enough just to find simple common items that are "Made in USA". Nearly everything you see in Walmart or Target is made in China. But anyways, the relationship between the US and China is symbiotic I guess. Our economy would collapse and you'd see huge amounts of inflation without their cheap goods, and their economy would collapse without us buying the billions of dollars in cheap goods from then. China was and still is today pegging their currency (yuan or yen, forget which) to the USD at an artificially low rate which is what makes their goods cheap here. The debate has been that now that China's economy is on its feet and growing very strongly, that their currency should be allowed to float either freely, or at least within a wider range. If their currency were to rise against the USD, that would make their goods a bit more expensive here, or they'd make a tad less. The Euro is very strong vs the USD which is what makes European products so expensive in the US. So a higher currency exchange rate vs the USD makes goods imported here more expensive, and less profitable for the exporting country. There is a good argument from the Detroit automakers which are suffering greatly due to the Japanese and Korean automakers also keeping their currency artificially low vs the USD. For every 1 yen or something the Japanese yen rises vs the USD makes something like a BILLION dollar difference to Toyota's bottom line, and the pricing advantage companies like Toyota get from that can amount to $1500 on a smaller car all the way up to $4000-5000 or more on more expensive luxury cars. So the reason why the Japanese can offer such awesome cars and cheap prices here is not necessarily because the "US doesn't know how to build good cars and are stupid" (which is the popular but mostly wrong conclusion on a lot of Japanese import forums) but rather because of the currency exchange advantages. Obviously that's not everything, but that's a good part of it.

I'm far from an economist, so I'm sure there are others here that know far more than me. Want to collapse China's economy though? Just allow their currency to float freely on the international currency market instead of having it pegged way low and fixed vs the USD. Their cost advantage would disappear, it would no longer make sense to manufacture nearly as much stuff there, and they would be out of business (exaggerating). Obviously that wouldnt' be good either, so perhaps a happy medium needs to be found. There was a SEMA article just recently that already stated that doing business in and manufacturing in China might not be the big cost saver that a lot of people think it is, and that it's taking some companies a good 5-10 yrs to break even vs manufacturing where they were before. So it's not a slam dunk solution apparently.
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  #13  
Old 05-10-2006, 07:23 AM
klu123 klu123 is offline
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I think some of you guys are worried about seeing "Made in China" BMWs here in future. Calm down, it will NEVER happen.

Yes there are "Made in China" (actually "Assembled in China") BMWs in China, but it's for marketing/taxing reasons, not labor cost reasons. As a marketing guy, I know it pretty well.

1) In China, the average luxo import car's price is (or was) about 100% higher that that in US, because of high "import tax". Audi bypasses it by assembling Audi cars in China. Those "made in China" Audis have significant pricing advantage over BMW and MB.

2) In China, a significant portion of the luxo car market is the government, and the policy is "government officials must use domestic cars". Again the "made in China" Audis bypass it. As a result, Audi is the dominant player there.

BMW's decision of having cars assembled in China is just a marketing move following Audi. And early this year, MB started selling "made in China" E-class. Same thing.

The quality of "made in China" BMWs are not much different from "made in Germany" BMWs, why? Almost everything are made in Germany, shipped to China and assembled there.

I think executives at BMW (and MB) know clearly that for luxo cars, brand image is more important than labor cost. No need to link the flood of "made in China" DVDs with "made in China" BMWs in future. Luxo car is a symbol of social status, DVD is not.
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Old 05-10-2006, 07:58 AM
klu123 klu123 is offline
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I'm also not surprised seeing LWB 5er going to countries like China. Over there, if you could afford a 5er, you would also afford a chaufeur. Therefore, many 5er owners sit in the back rather than driving the car. So a longer wheel base just gives them more comfort.

It's also Audi's first move, and it sells A6L very well. Now BMW follows. Maybe next year there will be LWB E-Class there.
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enclenta
Hmm, it's only longer by a few centimeters... that doesn't seem like a big difference.
According to the article it will be longer by 10-15 cm = 3.9-5.9 inches. The 750Li is 5.5 inches longer than a 750i. This is a mammoth difference in backseat legroom. I suspect that in the five series it will be the difference between less than enough and more than enough.
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Old 05-10-2006, 10:54 AM
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anyone suspect photoshop?
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klu123
...The quality of "made in China" BMWs are not much different from "made in Germany" BMWs, why? Almost everything are made in Germany, shipped to China and assembled there....
If it were Germans doing the assembly in China, then the "made in China" would not be a big deal to me.
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:46 AM
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I don't think we'll ever see those "made in China" BMWs coming to US shore. It's just not cost effective to ship all the parts to China, assemble there, and then reship the cars to US.

Hefty tax for import cars, especially import luxo, is common to many other countries, Asia and Europe. Of course, BMW can not open assembling factories in every country to avoid high tax. It doesn't make any sense to assemble cars in, say, Greek or Neatherland (the countries where you pay the highest price for a BMW), because you sell only 500 BMWs a year there.
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBU
I agree that is indeed the way things are going. And from a professional view point, I am very happy with that. I am in the steamship business and we are looking at double digit cargo (a.k.a. import) growth each year for at least the next five years.

BUT, a BMW at a 30% discount, is no longer a BMW. What I mean by that, is that BMW has a reputation as a well engineered luxury brand. They would never reduce price that much since it takes away the "luxury" part of their successful branding. Korea makes good cars, but they appeal to a different market segment than the BMW because of the lower (a.k.a. "cheaper") price.
I, for one, would love to puchase a BMW at 30% discount even it is made in China. The only difference between a Germen-made BMW and a Chinese-made BMW would be the cheaper cost of manufacturing . The Chinese-made BMW's are exactly the same as the ones made in Germany or U.S. or South Africa, and the later two orgins don't offer discount. Don't even get me started on the X3's that aren't even made by BMW. A mere blue-and-white roundel doesn't worth anything to me. Everything else, the handling/ride/practicality compromise and other stuff that few other automakers can even get close to are what bring me back time and time again .
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Old 05-11-2006, 03:17 PM
Donnalee Donnalee is offline
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BMW has made 5 Series in China for quite a while
They are all for the Chinese domestic market

Rest of the worlds 5 Series are all made in Dingolfing Germany
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