TIP: Quick Detailers and swirls

you can only cut polish so many times before you thin out your clearcoat and hit the base coat. then all hell breaks loose and you get oxidation and fading of the base coat.

Originally Posted by HW

you can only cut polish so many times before you thin out your clearcoat and hit the base coat. then all hell breaks loose and you get oxidation and fading of the base coat.

This is a true statement but you are really going to have to work at polishing and using a aggressive polish with a rotary buffer to accomplish this....your clear coat is about 3 millimeters thick....the scratches on the surface are hair like thin the reason they look so big is the reflection from the paint...The clear is magnifying off the paint....I use a very mild polish on my black 540 about 6 times a year some by hand other times with a buffer..again as I said you are not going to burn threw the clear by hand all that easy, unless you are using allot of pressure and an aggressive compound then that could be possible

Originally Posted by dboy11

This is a true statement but you are really going to have to work at polishing and using a aggressive polish with a rotary buffer to accomplish this....your clear coat is about 3 millimeters thick....the scratches on the surface are hair like thin the reason they look so big is the reflection from the paint...The clear is magnifying off the paint....I use a very mild polish on my black 540 about 6 times a year some by hand other times with a buffer..again as I said you are not going to burn threw the clear by hand all that easy, unless you are using allot of pressure and an aggressive compound then that could be possible

there is no way that the clearcoat is 3mm (~1/8") thick. the steel panels are not that thick.

I've had my E90 in the states for a few weeks now, and it's been hand washed three times. I haven't noticed any swirls or anything in the flawless finish until I took Meguiar's Quick Detailer to one panel this evening. SWIRLS!!! I stopped immediately. Is this something that's done to the car by the QD, or does the QD just clean the sutface so much that you notice them? Is there perhaps some sort of smear layer from the wax that usually plugs the swirls up that's being removed by the QD? Will the swirls go away if I wax the area again? Please tell me it's going to be ok!

Rick

Black Saphire Metallic E90

Originally Posted by Zahnarzt

Quick Detailer to one panel this evening. SWIRLS!!!

I have a Black Saph Met car too so swirls are easy to see. The problem I've had w/ QD's in general, is that where I live the car just accumulates too much surface "stuff" (exhaust soot, dirt/dust from construction, wind borne stuff, etc. ) to be able to use QD as an interim step betw washes. It hasn't mattered what the quality of the mf was, how much QD I applied, how lightly I wiped, etc., if there is crud on the car, visible or not, the act of wiping can put fine scratches in the clearcoat.

This has also been true for me with a CA duster. YMMV, but I live in an area w/ a fair amount of wind blowing all manner of stuff around, plus lots of new construction, plus LOTS of traffic/traffic jams w/cars and diesels sitting in traffic idling and belching soot, or kicking up freeway dust. One of the most congested in the country. I've lived in new construction 3 times in the area, twice since I had my car. The first time (w/o it) I wasn't far from the freeway, and I couldn't even leave my house windows open, because black soot from the freeway would set in on the window sills, blinds and floor.

I like QDs for their improvement to my car after I've washed it fwiw. Others use QD with better results.

One could argue that I don't wash my car enough then, and that's probably true for my context, but I don't neglect it, it's just that where I live it accumulates a lot of stuff very quickly.

That said, there is one product - Zaino Z6 - that helped prevent my car from accumulating dust at such a fast rate. I figured out that synthetic mf towels were imparting a static electrical charge to the surface of my car, causing it to attract particulate matter. The key one day was a small chunk of styrofoam was stuck to the vertical side of my car. When I went to touch what I thought was gum or goo, it came right off. When I held it near various parts of the car, it "jumped" to the car like a magnet. I posted this issue to the board and received feedback for Zaino Z6, and I think concours cotton towels were also suggested - which I now use instead of synthetic.

So, leaving out other steps like claying, polishing, waxing or glazing, I wash the car, add Z6 and a QD if I have any around. That's a routine wash for me. The Z6 keeps the car from accumulating dust too quickly, for you maybe it will help enable you to do the QD w/o washing b/c it may reduce the rate at which the car accumulates surface matter. I used to work in Chicago and don't remember the air being as dry as it is where I live now in N. CA. My .02, others MMV.

PS: 2 edits - I mention new construction b/c of the dust and dirt that get kicked up. The stuff gets into the garage, regardless of weather stripping, etc, since the garage has ventilation cutouts. In a windy area, like for me living in the hills or near vineyards, the pressure from the wind inevitably pushes dust/dirt into the garage, to say nothing of when the car is out and about. The other thing is I mention air in Chicago vs N. CA b/c here it is dry and I think that contributes to the static electricity. fwiw

Originally Posted by DotBalm

So, leaving out other steps like claying, polishing, waxing or glazing, I wash the car, add Z6 and a QD if I have any around. That's a routine wash for me.

Thanks for the help.

I live downtown and commute to the South Side every day right through the massive construction projects (www.avoidtheryan.com), and the area in which I live is inundated with new construction. Same situation with leaving the windows open--I call it city goo.

Regarding your description of your regular wash, do you do separate steps with the Z6 and QD, or are you adding them to your wash water?

I've had pretty good luck with my California Duster. Love the thing. Easiest quick improvement thing I've used, and I haven't noticed any marks from it.

I was hoping the QD would be just a step above that, as I've used it with several cars before. The problem is that the cars I cleaned with it were much lighter in color, and they weren't anything special at that.

Regarding repairing the one panel of swirls I have now, will a quick wax take care of it? I have some leftover Zymol sitting around...

Thanks again!

Rick

Omigod, that fwy project is a monster, gets its own website! I used to work on E. Erie, a block off Michigan Ave btw. I wish I had my 5 when I drove 94 back to Ann Arbor, but the timing is off by two decades.

I don't add Z6 or a QD to my wash water, but in re-reading my post I can see how it looks like that by my using the word "add." I should have said, step 1 is washing, step 2 is Z6, step 3 is QD if I have any or have time.

Prior to using the Mr. Clean autodry wash system which I'm currently using, I used Griots Garage soap (great smell), then Meguire's Gold Class. The Griots seemed to contribute to the static charge, b/c when all else was constant, such as using synthetic microfiber, and prior to my knowledge of Z6, the car didn't get as dirty as quickly as soon as I made the switch to Meguire's. YMMV. No scientific data to back this up, my .02. So betw the two I think Meguire's helped reduce static and therefore dirt accumulation, switching from synth to cotton helped, adding the Z6 step helped. Then I started testing the Mr. Clean no dry wash system when the Meguire's ran out. I like it, but the car has to be cool and remain cool and out of sun light from beginning to dried or a faint residue can be left, but that's true for any car wash product - towel off type or not. Regardless of which car wash soap/system, I folo w/Z6, then folo w/QD if I'm not out. When I used Meguire's, it was 50/50 whether I towel dried the car then did Z6 or just sprayed with Z6 on a wet car. I don't recall a difference and decided it was time saving to skip towel drying after washing if I could avoid direct sunlight. FWIW, I like the Pinnacle Crystal Mist QD, but I don't feel fanatical about it, whatever I have, I use since I bought a lot of products to try. There are some real towers of knowledge on this board, I'm learning from them and my own mistakes. I've found a pretty wide latitude on how to do things as long as certain fundamentals are followed, like not wiping grit into the clearcoat.

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe QD isn't an option for me, then. Seeing how I live in a condo downtown, it's not that easy for me wash the car. I might be able to do it at the office in the burbs, but I usually have stuff to do when I head there early, and when I'm done, the last thing I want to do is stick around.

As far as commuting through the carpet-bombed construction project, it really isn't that bad at all. I'm heading the opposite way of everyone else, so I fly through. I almost feel quilty cruising in my BMW while the rest of Chicago is stuck bumper-to-bumper heading into town.

Rick

Originally Posted by zentenn

Here's what I've come up with, and it works pretty good.

First, I use a lamb wool mitt to wash the car. When I'm done with the washing, I rinse and squeeze most, but not all of the suds and water out of the mitt.

Does anybody have a better solution?

Yes invisible glass is probably one of the best cleaners to get your windows looking best. however the secret is to wipe it off with regular newspaper. this leaves virtually no streaks on your windows. YES the bums of NY were right.

Great job!

Originally Posted by bmwelias

Yes invisible glass is probably one of the best cleaners to get your windows looking best. however the secret is to wipe it off with regular newspaper. this leaves virtually no streaks on your windows. YES the bums of NY were right.

Your right, newspaper is lint free thats why. I personally love invisible glass, but you have to do each window twice, then there really clean.

Newsprint has a grease based ink. Use an all cotton waffle weave towel.

Originally Posted by chiefwej

Newsprint has a grease based ink. Use an all cotton waffle weave towel.

If you use newsprint that has aged for a few months in your garage, then the ink will not run and there is NO lint!

Originally Posted by cattman

Hey folks, I had to chime in and correct a few things here.

Swirls are not in the wax, they are in the clear coat. Waxes and glazes do not remove swirls, they merely "fill" them temporarily, making them less optically visible. They fill the micro scratches with fillers or oils so that light doesn't hit them, hence hiding them.

Carnauba's and glazes last a very short time. So after you wash your car, you'll most likely see all those same swirls all over again.

There is only way to truly remove swirls: polish them out. Polishing is by definition a process where by you are removing a micro-thin layer of your clearcoat. The more aggressive or abrasive the polish, the more clear coat you are removing. Polishing is often a multi-step process, where an agressive polish is followed by a more gentle polish, etc. and then onto a wax or a synthetic sealant. Aggressive polishing is best done with either a rotary or a random orbital, and light polishing is best done with a random orbital. Beginners should not use a rotary, but anyone with some quick training can use an orbital.

An orbital not only spins, it oscillates. That "dual action" means it doesn't generate enough heat in one space to "burn" the paint, which would leave those aweful hologram looking marks in your paint.

I could go on forever here, but just wanted to shed some light on this. The technique recommended with using an MF bonnet and QD sounds fishy to me. Why do you need to use your PC for that? Just use QD and an MF and you're fine. You're not really accomplishing much by applying the QD with a PC.

Can you recommend some polishes to use? Thanks

Here are some great products:
http://detailcity.com/swirl-mark-rem...-products.html

I use the Pinnacle polish and Wolfgang paint sealant. Poorboys have a great rep, havent used them yet though.

It seems that keeping your car in swirls free condition is quit expensive using the quick detail spray all the time. I personality using Meguiars for all surface areas of my cars. Go to www.meguiars.com for all the details to keep your car a show shine, swirls free,and scratches free everyday without spending too much time and money. I would say 90% of my car care products are from meguiars.
Products that I have in my garage:
Meguiars clay bars (making surface smooth like glass by removing dirt safety without scratching the paint), deep car polish (restoring paint color), nxt generation wax 2.0 (creating long lasting protection and a deep color reflection/ minor glaze), scratches x, swirls x ( are both very good in eliminating scratches and swirls).
Products on that I haven't try but on my wish list:
Ultimate compound, and the new da from meguiars (expensive DA , costing nearly 4x the price of a regular polisher).
So far I'm very satisfied with meguiars. I had tried many others products in the past couple years but nothing came close to meguiars. Make sure to follow the directions before use / go to the meguiars webesite for nice and clear visual directions.
Wish all of you have fun in your garages
J

So, I just got a brand new 09 X3 delivered from the dealer that has some swirling. Will this go away with a little time and washing? I always thought these swirls were caused by car washes with brushes. Would the dealer use a buffer that would cause permanent swirling??

Originally Posted by Glock13

So, I just got a brand new 09 X3 delivered from the dealer that has some swirling. Will this go away with a little time and washing? I always thought these swirls were caused by car washes with brushes. Would the dealer use a buffer that would cause permanent swirling??

Your dealer's prep guy swirled it up unfortunately, the good news is it isn't the paint that's marred, rather, it's the clearcoat that's mildly damaged ( some of the new Nissans actually have clearcoat that heals itself).

You can follow the OP's advice and do it yourself, or you can take it to a really good detailer and have them get the swirls out for you.

I've followed the latter route with many of my new cars simply because I haven't been pleased with how the dealer does it at delivery.

The good news is you can get the swirls out

Enjoy the car.

Ed

Originally Posted by RKT BMR

Like many owners with dark finishes, I am in a constant battle with swirl marks. It seems that anything that wipes over the surface of a well-detailed finish will leave visible swirls in the wax

I havent read any of this thread, but I dont know that I agree with this statement anymore. I have had a jet black 650 since 2006 and it doesn't have any issues with swirl marks. Swirl marks come from improper "wiping" materials touching your clear coat. Period. Its not a complex or confusing thing to avoid.

I use a lambskin mit to wash, and a microfiber towel to dry.

That's it.

No relevant swirl marks to point out, for 5 years. And people still ask me if its a 2010 model ...

-BB-

thanks a lot.

gotta try this trick this weekend on my 3er...

Originally Posted by EdCT

Your dealer's prep guy swirled it up unfortunately, the good news is it isn't the paint that's marred, rather, it's the clearcoat that's mildly damaged ( some of the new Nissans actually have clearcoat that heals itself).

You can follow the OP's advice and do it yourself, or you can take it to a really good detailer and have them get the swirls out for you.

I've followed the latter route with many of my new cars simply because I haven't been pleased with how the dealer does it at delivery.

The good news is you can get the swirls out

Enjoy the car.

Ed

The bad news is that taking out the swirls will also remove clearcoat. This is an old posting but if I took deliver of a car that was swirled I would seriously consider telling the dealer to order me a new vehicle and deliver it with no swirls or the deal is off. Alternatively, he could compensate me for the loss of clearcoat. I know this sounds picky and petty. However, I have a friend that did just that when taking delivery of a new M5. The dealer reordered the car for him.

And always remember that if you don't soap/ wash and clean the paint surface of dirt and contaminants...."detail spray" is made specifically to put swirls and worse into your clear coat! It kills me to see people using that stuff over dust, etc at car shows.

I own an orbital but I only use it on my cheap cars.... hand wax is still king (in my opinion) when it comes to nice rides.