Why 1 Series in US?

A 1 series would be nice if all the SUV's and large cars were taken off the road in the U.S.

Until then, I have no desire to be in a collision with a SUV sitting in a dinky 1 series, mini, or anything else. I have seen to many folks crippled from the dinky cars. They cannot make them very safe because there is less room for crumple zones.

Having had 5 bimmers, I can honestly say I have only been comfortable on roads trips in the 5 and 6 series. Even the 3 series was to small and my right leg was always pushed up against the console. I can't even imagine taking a long drive in a 1 series.

I've seen full size cars that were no longer recognizable as cars after wrecks. I'll trade size for manuverability. Granted, most BMWs are more manuverable and safer than many other cars, but a smaller car will always give you more options to avoid the wreck in the first place. Modern technology allows a small car to have big car safety as well. I'd feel safer in a 1 series than in my Impala when it comes to crashworthiness. Crash safety has come a long way.

Originally Posted by klu123

I guess maybe there are some people who pick a 1er for its tight size and agility, but most buyers do it because of its price. My point is - to lure those who can't afford a 328/335, why not offer them a 323 or even 320? Anyway, to maintain its brand name, BMW won't set the price of 1-series too low. So why buy a $25k 1 rather than a $27k 3?

How do you know most buyers do it for the price? There is no evidence for that assumption. I think most of the people who are clamoring for it here don't care that much about the price, within reasonable parameters.

Originally Posted by chuck92103

A 1 series would be nice if all the SUV's and large cars were taken off the road in the U.S.

Until then, I have no desire to be in a collision with a SUV sitting in a dinky 1 series, mini, or anything else. I have seen to many folks crippled from the dinky cars. They cannot make them very safe because there is less room for crumple zones.

I'm afraid your perception of SUVs and small cars is not necessarily true.

In serious accidents, SUV's are prone to rolling over and killing its occupants.

The 1-series, though smaller, is actually a very safe car. In fact, it has higher safety ratings than the 5-series.

According to the EuroNCAP safety ratings,

The 1-series scored HIGHER with:

Front 14 (88%)
Side 18 (100%)
Pedestrian (6%)

Whereas the 5-series scored LOWER with:

Front 11 (69%)
Side 16 (89%)
Pedestrian (6%)

Thus, contrary to your perception, the 1-series is a very safe car.

I'll second ProRail's comments. I have no predjudice against used cars, especially with BMWs CPO program. I'm looking at the 1 series as a small RWD sports coupe/sedan. I've been waiting for one for a long time, and had the 1 series not been an option, then I'd of probably stepped up to a CPOed 3 series, wishing it were smaller. I certainly would not want a neutered 3 series in place of a 1 series.

Originally Posted by ProRail

How do you know most buyers do it for the price? There is no evidence for that assumption. I think most of the people who are clamoring for it here don't care that much about the price, within reasonable parameters.

I think there are 2 totally different design philosophies in designing such a subcompact car:

1) Performance, driving fun-oriented. If so, a 1 will take almost all of the sports "genes" from 3, in a smaller package. Yes it'll be be even more agile, but the price won'be cheap. I bet a 135, if ever comes, will be priced almost as much as a 328.

2) Price-oriented. If so, a 1 will be really a "cheaper" 3, for those can't afford a 328/335. MB A Class is an example of "cheaper C Class".

I hope 1-series is the former case, i.e., kind of "a Mini with a BMW Tag", and some of you here do like it, but how many customers are going to buy a $34k 135? I doubt.

If the " a cheaper 3" case, here is what I learned from driving a MB A Class. This summer I rent a MB A in UK because it was the cheapest with auto transmission in the remote areas of Scotish Highland, but still around 60 Pound (about $110) per day. One day, at a parking lot, a guy drving a C Class, pointed out that this MB A class has nothing of MB but the name tag, and he called a stupid idea to make MB way cheaper than a VW Passat. I can't agree more.

Originally Posted by klu123

If the " a cheaper 3" case, here is what I learned from driving a MB A Class. This summer I rent a MB A in UK because it was the cheapest with auto transmission in the remote areas of Scotish Highland, but still around 60 Pound (about $110) per day. One day, at a parking lot, a guy drving a C Class, pointed out that this MB A class has nothing of MB but the name tag, and he called a stupid idea to make MB way cheaper than a VW Passat. I can't agree more.

I think the C-class owner just has some ego issues.
Find an E-class owner to point out that his C-class is nothing like the E-class and that it was a stupid idea for Chrysler to make a MB way cheaper than a VW Toureg. Lol.

I am hoping the 1 series will have a sub $30k sport package equipped option that does 0-60 in around 7 seconds and is very well balanced with sharp reflexes. I don't want a supercar, but it needs to be fun.

Originally Posted by VaderSS

I've seen full size cars that were no longer recognizable as cars after wrecks. I'll trade size for manuverability. Granted, most BMWs are more manuverable and safer than many other cars, but a smaller car will always give you more options to avoid the wreck in the first place. Modern technology allows a small car to have big car safety as well. I'd feel safer in a 1 series than in my Impala when it comes to crashworthiness. Crash safety has come a long way.

Yup, was reminded of this fact just yesterday when some old guy merged onto the highway and with no warning drifted right over the dividing line. If I were driving something wide like an Excursion, he'd have hit me.

Originally Posted by VaderSS

I am hoping the 1 series will have a sub $30k sport package equipped option that does 0-60 in around 7 seconds and is very well balanced with sharp reflexes. I don't want a supercar, but it needs to be fun.

200-250 hp four would be perfect for me. Which means we won't get one.

Originally Posted by icedragon

I'm afraid your perception of SUVs and small cars is not necessarily true.

In serious accidents, SUV's are prone to rolling over and killing its occupants.

The 1-series, though smaller, is actually a very safe car. In fact, it has higher safety ratings than the 5-series.

According to the EuroNCAP safety ratings,

The 1-series scored HIGHER with:

Front 14 (88%)
Side 18 (100%)
Pedestrian (6%)

Whereas the 5-series scored LOWER with:

Front 11 (69%)
Side 16 (89%)
Pedestrian (6%)

Thus, contrary to your perception, the 1-series is a very safe car.

You misunderstood. I lot of small cars are deemed safe as tested by the NHTSA. However this is a limited test. For example, They do not test a tiny car being rear ended by a 5,000lb SUV and then being crunched into the car ahead of them. It is common sense. When you are in an accident in a tiny car, the likelyhood of injury is greater regardless of what the government says. There is not a lot of room between your body and the front/rear bumpers.

Are you telling me you would feel safe riding in the back seat of a Mini coopr convertible?

Originally Posted by chuck92103

You misunderstood. I lot of small cars are deemed safe as tested by the NHTSA. However this is a limited test. For example, They do not test a tiny car being rear ended by a 5,000lb SUV and then being crunched into the car ahead of them. It is common sense. When you are in an accident in a tiny car, the likelyhood of injury is greater regardless of what the government says. There is not a lot of room between your body and the front/rear bumpers.

Are you telling me you would feel safe riding in the back seat of a Mini coopr convertible?

I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, there are not enough 5000 lb SUVs swarming the streets to make this a significant issue.

I only said the 1-series was safe, I never mentioned anything about sitting in a Mini Cooper convertible.

Yes, I would feel safe sitting in the back seat of a 1-series. It's not a tiny car, but a small car comparable to the size of past 3-series.

No, I would not feel safe sitting in the back seat of a Mini Mini Cooper convertible as it is no where near as safe as a 1-series as per these EuroNCAP results:

1-series:

Front 14 (88%)
Side 18 (100%)
Pedestrian 2 (6%)

Mini Cooper:

Front 10 (63%)
Side 14 (78%)
Pedestrian 8 (22%)

Originally Posted by icedragon

I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, there are not enough 5000 lb SUVs swarming the streets to make this a significant issue.

I only said the 1-series was safe, I never mentioned anything about sitting in a Mini Cooper convertible.

Yes, I would feel safe sitting in the back seat of a 1-series. It's not a tiny car, but a small car comparable to the size of past 3-series.

No, I would not feel safe sitting in the back seat of a Mini Mini Cooper convertible as it is no where near as safe as a 1-series as per these EuroNCAP results:

1-series:

Front 14 (88%)
Side 18 (100%)
Pedestrian 2 (6%)

Mini Cooper:

Front 10 (63%)
Side 14 (78%)
Pedestrian 8 (22%)

I think we agree. But go look at the mini cooper on the NHTSA web site. It got 5 stars. I don't believe it for a second.

Originally Posted by chuck92103

I think we agree. But go look at the mini cooper on the NHTSA web site. It got 5 stars. I don't believe it for a second.

Yes, I think we both agree that the MINI is not a safe car.

I don't like how the NHTSA uses a 5-star system because there is a significant range between 4 stars and 5 stars.

Originally Posted by icedragon

Yes, I think we both agree that the MINI is not a safe car.

I don't like how the NHTSA uses a 5-star system because there is a significant range between 4 stars and 5 stars.

Agreed. They need to take into account th size of vehicles too but they don't. They just test on the offset frontal collision. And they rate based on if you were to live or die. I guess they don't consider severely crippled an issue.

Originally Posted by icedragon

Yes, I think we both agree that the MINI is not a safe car.

I don't like how the NHTSA uses a 5-star system because there is a significant range between 4 stars and 5 stars.

I tend to disagree with this. In researching my purchase of my MINI Cooper S, it was very apparent that BMW put a lot of safety into the car. I have seen pictures of cars in severe accidents with SUV's, high speed roll overs and every other thing you can imagine and I will say that the car will completely give its life to save yours. I recently saw a video of a car that was side swiped and bounced off a guard rail then rolled numerous times and the driver walked away. The shape, angles and choice of materials they used greatly influenced the safety of the car, as for hitting a pedestrian and all that Euro BS, the only thing that does is make the nose of the cars look higher and less aero dynamic , the new gen MINI is suffering from that greatly. The one big advantage of the car is that besides passive safety, there is a lot of ability to avoid accidents. Yes if you get hit by an SUV you are going to get hurt, but for a car of its size it does much better than one would imagine and it is a heck of a lot heavier than it looks!

Originally Posted by chuck92103

Agreed. They need to take into account th size of vehicles too but they don't. They just test on the offset frontal collision. And they rate based on if you were to live or die. I guess they don't consider severely crippled an issue.

Then look at the IIHS tests which are more realistic. The MINI does better than the former F150 and look how many of them are running around!
http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/Cra...operVsFordF150

IIHS tests side impact 31 mph with sled setup like SUV and the frontal offset etc.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=303


2006 3 series ratings
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=458

It is worth noting that both the MINI and the 3 stated that a pelvic fracture and internal injuries would be possible.

Originally Posted by chuck92103

You misunderstood. I lot of small cars are deemed safe as tested by the NHTSA. However this is a limited test. For example, They do not test a tiny car being rear ended by a 5,000lb SUV and then being crunched into the car ahead of them. It is common sense. When you are in an accident in a tiny car, the likelyhood of injury is greater regardless of what the government says. There is not a lot of room between your body and the front/rear bumpers.

Are you telling me you would feel safe riding in the back seat of a Mini coopr convertible?

When evaluating safety, you don't pick a rare event and judge a car, you pick common accidents. Any accident involving high speeds has a good chance of being fatal - drive an Excursion into a wall or tree at 45 mph and see if you walk away. You're statistically more likely to die rolling over in a tall SUV than in a multi-car accident in a Mini, and that's what would matter to me.

Originally Posted by chuck92103

And they rate based on if you were to live or die. I guess they don't consider severely crippled an issue.

it's kind of like how the media covers the war, they rarely mention the >10,000 poor soldiers who are "only" severely injured

I will take the 130i in current form for 28K. No fancy option needed. Just SP and 6sp manual.

I don't want a 6sp unless it's a double OD, ala T56. If it's got a good torque curve, a close-ration 6 is not required, but that seems to be the "in" thing these days.