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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 11-04-2006, 06:31 PM
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2006_750Li_ED 2006_750Li_ED is offline
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Lexus LS460L vs BMW 750Li

I just test drove the new Lexus LS460L and here is my impression.
1) Outside, the general lines of the Lexus have been stolen from BMW, if you substitute the front grill you could easily mistake the car for a 7 series from certain angles, so yes the body looks nice.
2) The inside : the seats are definitely more comfortable than the old LS430, however they do not even come close to the comfort seats on the 7 series
3) the Lexus engine is audible while driving, they wanted to give it a sportier feel, however the handling is far from being sporty, when going on a winding road the Lexus will dive in during turns and I could not feel safe.
4) The Tires that come with the Lexus were squeaking on minor turns and lost traction very early on turns.
5) the Mark Levinson audio system is not as good as the Logic7 and has too much base and rattling while dampening the highs, in order to get decent sound I had to disable the surround feature, and still it was not as open as the Logic 7.
6) The price of the car loaded nicely is $85,000, well into the BMW territory and reaching into the S class territory
7) Trunk way too small, smaller than the 5 series trunk

Features
1) I liked the automatic parking feature, it works well, however if a person can not parallel park they should not be driving at all, so I do not care about this feature, which by the way put the car 1 1/2 feet away from the curb, which is marginally legal and way too far.
2) Rear reclining seats feature with refrigeration takes out of the already small trunk a huge portion, leaving this big passenger car without space for luggage.
3) The gadgets on the car have definitely caught up with the 7 series, they even have a rear view camera standard, nice navigation system (5th generation)
4) Sound system has a hard drive that stores up to 2000 songs, nice feature
5) DVD changer can play DVD MP3 files, so it has 6 times the capacity.
6) Lexus has a much more advanced voice command entry system
7)Lexus has traffic status on the navigation through XM satellite radio
8)Lexus has only 3 months free Satellite radio, BMW gives 1 year
9)the Lexus has an 8 speed transmission which helps it to accelerate and also saves gas


Conclusion
I did not have time to evaluate all of the gadgets, however Lexus definitely put together a car that competes in the same league of the 7 series, however it is too expensive and because of the price people can expect it to deliver the same performance and maneuverability as its rivals and it falls short in my opinion. this car should cost $10,000 less than the price they gave it. This is their biggest mistake Toyota made.
I would not buy this car, I would rather buy the Mercedes S class over it, and in mid 2008 when BMW replaces the E65/E66 Lexus will have to drop their price to compete (through rebates and deals) so if one really likes it, wait a few months and when they have a lot in stock that they can not move you would see deals on it.

Last edited by 2006_750Li_ED; 11-04-2006 at 06:38 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2006, 06:42 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Good review. Japan agrees with you. Toyota had larger cars for many years that were in Japan even before the Lexus market name came out. A year ago Toyota switched the label on their high en cars to Lexus for local consumers and the buyers balked. They refused to pay premium prices for a Toyota.

The world has already stated with their wallets, only certain car makes warrant high prices for the luxury and high end super cars. The list includes BMW, MB, Aston martin, Rolls, Bentley, etc.

The Japanese will not be successful selling $85k cars next to $10k Corollas. Consumers won't buy it. Remember the VW Phaeton? No one would by an $80k VW although it was a nice car.

The LS400 was $39k when they brought it to this country after being in Japan for 5 years. The followed Acura. The self parking feature has been in Japan for many years even in the low end cars. This is not new technology. I find it strange that Lexus thought it was a selling point and made commericals about it. With the Lexus at $85k, I think they have way overstepped the value proposition.
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Old 11-04-2006, 06:56 PM
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2006_750Li_ED 2006_750Li_ED is offline
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The biggest reason for the success of the LS430 was the value for the price. with the LS460 I do not see the value, all I see is a really nice Toyota that is very well designed. They increased the price of the car by $20,000 and they should have increased it only by $10,000 that is a marketing mistake and it will cost them. I do think however that the Lexus is a higher class than the VW, however it would probably disappoint in sales, I can not see 7 series and S class drivers buying it, however I do see Lexus LS430 customers not buying the LS460 due to price. When a car jumps from one price category to another different customers will look at it.
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:02 PM
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chuck92103 chuck92103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006_750Li_ED View Post
The biggest reason for the success of the LS430 was the value for the price. with the LS460 I do not see the value, all I see is a really nice Toyota that is very well designed. They increased the price of the car by $20,000 and they should have increased it only by $10,000 that is a marketing mistake and it will cost them. I do think however that the Lexus is a higher class than the VW, however it would probably disappoint in sales, I can not see 7 series and S class drivers buying it, however I do see Lexus LS430 customers not buying the LS460 due to price. When a car jumps from one price category to another different customers will look at it.
Good point. Also the their Lexus coupe (SC430?) is way overpriced and they do not offer a lower end coupe. Not sure what they are thinking.
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Old 11-04-2006, 09:03 PM
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One nice thing Lexus did was keep their option prices much lower thatn BMW/MB. I believe the soft close doors are about $300-$400 as opposed to $1,000 with BMW.
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Old 11-05-2006, 04:45 PM
iaingillott iaingillott is offline
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Interesting comments - I have been following the S550 - 750i - LS460 discussions closely over the last month or so - my lease is up soon on my X3 (much loved) and I am looking at a nice sedan as a replacement. Lease price has to be right though.

I should re-empt my comments by saying I also drive a 1990 911C2 and a 2004 Mini Cooper S JCW. I like cars that handle.

I drove both the LS460 and the LS460L yesterday. They have very different feels - almost like too different cars:

LS460 - nice, felt tight and handled well on a twisty local road (that a BMW salesman showed me in a 5 series). good brakes and very responsive gearbox/engine (when in Power setting). Price as I would want it $69k. Back seat is more than big enough for my kids.

LS460L with air suspension - felt very soft and 'wallowy' - rolled a great deal in the corners. Brakes were soft and did not feel up to handling the car. The L felt much bigger than the standard car. With the suspension in Sport and the transmission in Power, the handling came close to the LS460 - so what is the point of buying the air suspension if you want a car than handles? Price for this version was about $78k. Back seat is huge.

In short, the LS460 will make my short list when the time comes next year, the LS460L will not.

As a final point, the local Lexus dealer sells about 220 - 240 cars a month, compared to 30 - 36 cars for the M-B dealer. Not sure about BMW - I would guess about 120 - 150 cars judging by the size of the facility. Certainly, about 50 percent of Lexus sales are the RX, but that leaves alot of sedans. The Lexus dealer has sold 9 LS460 in the lastten days - two have gone to 7-series customers.
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Old 11-05-2006, 09:19 PM
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2006_750Li_ED 2006_750Li_ED is offline
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I drove the LS460L without air suspension and it did not handle well at all on mountain roads, it has the same suspension as the LS460 short wheel version, the air suspension is 2000+ option.
The seats on the Lexus are not even close to the ones on the BMW.
A Lexus LS460 with comfort package is $68,000 and a similarly equipped 750i is $78,000
The gap narrows when you get the LS460L, they are typically $85,000 which is the same price range as the BMW 750Li fairly loaded ($8,000 in options)
The Lexus LS460L is not a value car at this price, they crossed the line.
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