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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #26  
Old 11-12-2007, 02:33 PM
philippek philippek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramos View Post
Yo, Philippe.. What's up man? I am doing some reading in here and am hoping myself to be able to drive the ring... Did you get a date for your 135 Ed yet?
Nothing yet...anxiously awaiting official ED release date and pricing

At the risk of sounding like a total enthusiast snob, the 6er is beginning to get on my nerves...bring on the 1er
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2007, 05:31 AM
hector hector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
...

At the risk of sounding like a total enthusiast snob, the 6er is beginning to get on my nerves...bring on the 1er
at the risk of sounding like an egalitarian, what was the raison d'etre of the 6 series in the first place? bigger than the e92 but with a more compromised rear seat, no quicker/faster than a 335 and with a hood so long it feels like it is even bigger than it is; in a nutshell neither fun to drive nor practical. oh, and i forgot to mention; hideous.
please take no offense to the above; just railing on the car, not it's owner.
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  #28  
Old 11-13-2007, 08:06 AM
Qbrozen Qbrozen is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
The Ring would be a great time but you are not going to be able to take you 1er on the ring. You have temporary plates when you do ED and they do not allow temp tags on the ring. I did an ED in May for my 335i and you have to have a normal license plate to be allowed on the ring.

Just because you can't take your 1 series on the ring doesn't mean you can't enjoy the ring. I rented a 318ti from www.rent-racecar.de and it was fantastic. The car was a real race car, completely stripped with a full cage, racing brakes and full harness. I did 10 laps and it was fantastic fun and worth every penny. And you can drive it like you stole it without worrying about your new car (not that you have a choice since they won't allow your car on the ring).

I had such a great time I am organizing a trip back with some racing friends just to rent a car again and do some more laps.
You have just showed me my dream vacation!!!
I'd love to take 2 half days with 2 different cars. I think the 318 could be great fun, but I think I may kick myself if I was there and didn't try the 350Z. Of course, my odds of wrecking the Z are probably much greater (and probably why it is so much more expensive).
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  #29  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:00 AM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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The rent-a-racer is definitely the way to go on the ring. The car is outfitted with a full cage, racing harness, race tires, a fantastic suspension, completely gutted, and track pads. Your own car is going to have stock brakes, a floaty suspension, crappy tires and weigh nearly 1.5tons. It is just not a race car and this is a RACE track.

You can take your own car on the ring but why would you want to? Whatever you rent from them is going to be faster and more fun on the track. Additionally you don't have to worry about wrecking your brand new car.

Your 1 series might have more power but you are on the ring to try the turns, not the straightaways. In their 318 I was able to pass S2000s, a few Z4 coupes and a variety of random cars that appeared mostly stock. And that is with MAYBE 120hp. The race prepped GT3 was slightly faster (he lapped me) but I had a blast and didn't have to worry about the car in the slightest. Is ED insurance even valid on the ring? Might be something to look into since there were quite a few closures when I was there for people who's speed exceeded their ability.

PS.

Don't waste your time with the PS2 version of the ring on Gran Turismo. It has no sense of scale of the elevation changes.
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:27 AM
adc adc is offline
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Allow me to offer a counterpoint...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
You can take your own car on the ring but why would you want to?
For one thing, it's free. For another, it gives you a better understanding of how well your own car will do on track. I plan to track my car every now and then here in the US, so the Ring was a very good forecast.

And lastly, it was fun.

Quote:
Is ED insurance even valid on the ring?
Yes.

Quote:
Don't waste your time with the PS2 version of the ring on Gran Turismo. It has no sense of scale of the elevation changes.
I strongly disagree. While playing Forza on my xbox didn't come close to approximating the real Ring environment, it did afford me the opportunity to learn (memorize) part of the track layout. Without it, I would have felt lost more often than not with all those blind crests and corners, and I would have never been sure whether it was time to accelerate, lift or brake.

I'm sure lots of beginners ended up in the barriers precisely because they had no idea what came next. To me on my first Ring outing, it proved an invaluable learning tool.


All this being said, there is no subsitute for common sense, regardless of what you are driving. You are not there to break the lap record - you won't be able to no matter how hard you try. You are there to have fun and soak in the atmoshpere, the landscape and the track itself. For this purpose, it really doesn't matter what car you drive.

Also, driving a racecar doesn't mean you are all of a sudden faster than everything else. Plenty of cars that I passed in my stock 335, and plenty more that passed me - both stock and modified. I really didn't care, I just made sure the passes were executed in a safe manner.


On my next Ring outing, I'll take both my stock car as well as a prepared racecar. But the only reason to take the racecar will be to benefit from instructed driving - but that costs money that a first timer may not feel inclined to spend.
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  #31  
Old 11-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Allow me to offer a counterpoint...



For one thing, it's free. For another, it gives you a better understanding of how well your own car will do on track. I plan to track my car every now and then here in the US, so the Ring was a very good forecast.

And lastly, it was fun.

Yes.

I strongly disagree. While playing Forza on my xbox didn't come close to approximating the real Ring environment, it did afford me the opportunity to learn (memorize) part of the track layout. Without it, I would have felt lost more often than not with all those blind crests and corners, and I would have never been sure whether it was time to accelerate, lift or brake.

I'm sure lots of beginners ended up in the barriers precisely because they had no idea what came next. To me on my first Ring outing, it proved an invaluable learning tool.

All this being said, there is no subsitute for common sense, regardless of what you are driving. You are not there to break the lap record - you won't be able to no matter how hard you try. You are there to have fun and soak in the atmoshpere, the landscape and the track itself. For this purpose, it really doesn't matter what car you drive.

Also, driving a racecar doesn't mean you are all of a sudden faster than everything else. Plenty of cars that I passed in my stock 335, and plenty more that passed me - both stock and modified. I really didn't care, I just made sure the passes were executed in a safe manner.

On my next Ring outing, I'll take both my stock car as well as a prepared racecar. But the only reason to take the racecar will be to benefit from instructed driving - but that costs money that a first timer may not feel inclined to spend.
I just feel that taking your own car in the ring is not the best way to "break in" a brand new car. Even if you pass the 1200 miles it is still probably not recommended to race the car with extended 5000+ RPM intervals. And the stock parts (especially brake pads and run flat tires) are not meant for track use. You should always try to use the right tool for the job. While you might have fun thrashing your car around the track the stock limits are going to be much lower than a race prepped car with a much higher probability of damage.

Ask yourself, do you want to spend the time during your ED to take your car to the shop? Or try to somehow get the car repaired after you put a wheel off the course when going into one of the many blind turns too fast? Since this will be a new car you will be very unfamiliar with it's handling. Better to get a track car with limits well above your own.

And when you are talking about buying a 35K+ car and spending thousands of dollars on your European vacation why be cheap about a few hundred for a Ring rental? Better to skip it then to go half a$$.

And I have no experience with Forza. I tried Gran Turismo. MUCH more helpful than the video game though was the owner of the Rent-a-racer took me around with his nearly stock (brakes, suspension and tires upgraded) 2002 Golf TDI. Holy cow. He was scary fast and laughing and explaining the course the whole time. Great learning run.

If you want to experience the ring done by a professional check out the BMW M5 ring taxi when you are there. You need reservations or I would have done it that day. A professional woman race driver takes passengers around and it looked awesome. I talked to someone who had just taken a ride and said it was amazing. I am definitely doing it on my next European trip. Maybe once the dollar doesn't stink quite so bad.
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  #32  
Old 11-13-2007, 02:51 PM
adc adc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
I just feel that taking your own car in the ring is not the best way to "break in" a brand new car. Even if you pass the 1200 miles it is still probably not recommended to race the car with extended 5000+ RPM intervals.
My car had over 2000 miles when I took it on the Ring. Stop worrying so much about this - the day I cannot take my stock BMW to a track session is the day I give up on BMW.

Quote:
And the stock parts (especially brake pads and run flat tires) are not meant for track use.
Disagree - and I have the advantage here, since I did experience this and you didn't.

For my several laps, the stock brakes were sufficient, and the runflats were not the limiting factor that day. I was. And because of that, I took 30min breaks between laps and I'll say again, everything was fine.

Quote:
Or try to somehow get the car repaired after you put a wheel off the course when going into one of the many blind turns too fast?
If you are driving at 10/10ths, then I agree a racecar is the way to go. But I would not advise anybody to try that unless they have extensive Ring experience under their belt.

I cannot stress enough that the driver will be the limiting factor for many laps, not the car.

Quote:
with his nearly stock (brakes, suspension and tires upgraded) 2002 Golf TDI. Holy cow.
More fuel to the argument that a stock car will NOT be the limiting factor.

Quote:
If you want to experience the ring done by a professional check out the BMW M5 ring taxi when you are there.
I did attempt to purchase tickets, but the awkwardness of the ordering process combined with my tardiness ensured that I didn't get them. I was a little sad at this but decided to make the best of the situation, so I went anyway. To say I had a blast is an understatement.

According to my instructor that day, the Ring Taxi does 9-9:30 min ring laps. That's scary fast for most beginners, but not all it's cracked up to be once you get some laps under your belt. Again this was the opinion of the instructor and I was initially shocked by this assesment. Not so anymore.

Quote:
Better to skip it then to go half a$$.
Myself and others who have done the Ring in their own cars, had a blast, and apparently lived to tell the tale, disagree.

Can we leave it at this?
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  #33  
Old 11-13-2007, 04:42 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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How about both? A few laps in your own car to experience it , maybe slow learning laps..
Then a half day with a rental where you can test your own limits without risking your brand new car?
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  #34  
Old 11-14-2007, 07:48 AM
adc adc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramos View Post
How about both? A few laps in your own car to experience it , maybe slow learning laps..
Then a half day with a rental where you can test your own limits without risking your brand new car?
It's not a bad idea in principle.

The problem is, the Ring is huge. It will take you far more than a few exploratory laps to get the "hang" of it, or at least to remember all the corners. I've done probably 20 laps on the Forza game, broken up in 4 sections to make learning easier, but still because of the differences between the game and the real thing (as Needagarage mentioned) I was frequently lost on the real circuit.

The BMW Ring school held every year in August also breaks up the circuit in several sections and practices each section separately. I believe it's towards the end of the 2nd day that you get to lap the whole thing (do a search on the very detailed post of member LSeca).

So in my humble opinion, after just a few laps you will be just as fast in your stock BMW as you will in the racecar. The fact that crashing the racecar carries a lesser financial penalty than crashing your own car should NOT make you take more chances. You don't want to crash on the Ring, no matter what you drive - it's not that type of place.

So by all means rent the racecar, you can have tremendous fun in the corners with it. But it absolutely doesn't make driving your own car any more or less dangerous. The only thing that can make driving the Ring dangerous is yourself, the driver. Use common sense, use appropriate speed for the car you drive, weather/track conditions and traffic situations and you'll be fine driving anything.
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  #35  
Old 11-14-2007, 08:36 AM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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You can drive your own car if you like. I just don't think it is worth the incremental cost for the extra risk and less fun. I agree that no one should be out to set lap records but driving a STOCK car cannot compare to a race ready car.

Leather seats and 3 point point belt vs. race shell and 4 point harness

Stock suspension vs. lowered and stiffened suspension with zero roll

airbags vs caged and stripped interior

muted stock exhaust vs. straight piped joy

3400+ lbs vs. 2400 lbs

What does it matter what times you get, you are there for the experience. A properly setup car will give you that experience without having to drive on the ragged edge. A sensation of speed is what your are going for and new BMWs are exceptionally good at eliminating it.

Try your own car but I HIGHLY recommend a few laps in one of the rental racers.

Let me put it this way, you are going all the way to Germany; are you really going to drink Miller Lite?
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  #36  
Old 11-14-2007, 08:45 AM
adc adc is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
Let me put it this way, you are going all the way to Germany; are you really going to drink Miller Lite?
By buying a BMW in Germany I really am getting a large Mass of Dunkel.

If I wanted Miller lite, I'd stay at home and drive a Chevy Malibu.


I think you are doing quite a disservice to BMWs...
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  #37  
Old 11-14-2007, 09:53 AM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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No comment on the buying, it is the track experience that is the Miller Lite. It is extremely simple:

A stock BMW cannot compare to the experience of one of the rent-a-racers. And I even rented the cheap 318ti!!

I can compare them because I HAVE driven the 335i on a track in America and while very quick, it isn't all that engaging.
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