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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #26  
Old 02-14-2008, 08:36 AM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
If you are having problems and your dealer hasn't been able to fix them, call BMW NA customer service.

1-800-831-1117
been there done that. now what. the new software program made it worse. now it red lines and never goes into gear. any help is appreceiated. making payments have no car.
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2008, 08:57 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Welcome to the club--call the service manager and cut right to the chase ask for technical rep from BMWNA to check your car. Get repsonse in writing. Apparently a number of dealers have trouble reading instructions and the updates may not have been done right.

Ask for detailed report of what updates have been done.

Document all transactions from here on out. You may need it.
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  #28  
Old 02-14-2008, 08:59 AM
awhitney07x3 awhitney07x3 is offline
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Angry not fixed yet

Today we took our 2007 X3 in for the 5th time to get the transmission fixed. We had the software upgrade a few weeks ago and it didn't help much. It is still a very unpredicatable ride with hesitations followed by crazy full throttle accelerations usually at a road incline/decline. The only thing that may have been fixed is the complete failure to accelerate when trying to get on to the highway. The service manager said sorry, that's all we can do. To add insult to injury, our dealership no longer gives you a BMW loaner when your car is in the shop. They rented a Chevy Impala for us.

Evlengr, you are absolutely right about the BMW 'Fix'. I've heard the first 5 remarks on your list from the service department. The first 3 times we took the car in to get this problem resolved, they said they couldn't duplicate the problem and did absolutely nothing. By the 4th time, the 1 year/ 12,000 mile period was over -the Lemon Law period in GA. However, if BMW didn't do anything the first 3 times, does that mean they failed to comply with the part of the Lemon Law that says, a "reasonable number of attempts to repair a nonconformity have been undertaken"? We're consulting a lawyer about all of this.

My mother's Dodge caravan shifts better than our X3. Pitiful and very, very disappointing. I don't know if we will ever buy another BMW. Our first 4 were great but this fiasco has me thinking BMW doesn't make quality vehicles any longer.
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  #29  
Old 02-14-2008, 10:06 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Every state law varies, but it is my understanding that LL begins when you have formally notified them there is a problem. So getting a service slip may be that course. Technically you have to contact corporate BMWNA, but that might be splitting hairs. A lawyer will defintely be of help.
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  #30  
Old 02-14-2008, 04:20 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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My X3 is back in the shop again and will keep going back til they get it fixed, give me a manual, or buy it back.

For something that is such a small problem ---- more and more people seem to be stepping forward to voice the exact same complaints. On this web site alone there are 76 owners with the transmission problem. All of them are wrong? Hardly.
In the meantime as usual the loaner (528xi- now you know why I like my dealer and not BMWNA) drives smooth as silk. No jerking, hesistation, nothing. The 328i which has the same transmission has always behaved when a loaner as well.

Best advice in the meantime is keep every invoice, service slip, etc... and document everything.

Please report your transmission issues to the NHSTA, BBB, etc..

Sooner or later we will get this solved or BMWNA may be out $3,040,000 just by rough count on this website. Not to mention all lost future sales.

Last edited by Evlengr; 02-14-2008 at 04:24 PM.
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  #31  
Old 02-15-2008, 07:51 AM
x3ml x3ml is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
In the meantime as usual the loaner (528xi- now you know why I like my dealer and not BMWNA) drives smooth as silk. No jerking, hesistation, nothing. The 328i which has the same transmission has always behaved when a loaner as well.
Are you saying the 328i uses the same transmission as the 528xi, or you mean the X3. I doubt any other car uses the same AT as the 07/08 AT. Can anyone confirm this.

One request Evl, can you go find a Oct 07 build date (or later) X3 AT and tell us how it drives while you are at BMW? Just need your opinion.

Also thanks for putting together this, or did you copy from their training manual?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
The BMW Fix
  • tell the customer it is their fault and they don't know how to drive a BMW.
  • tell the customer all AWD's drive this way.
  • tell the customer it is the gas they use.
  • tell the customer no problem found or could not replicate the issue.
  • tell the customer no one else is complaining about this issue, and try to discredit them.
  • have customer call BMWNA and stall them until Lemon Law runs out.
  • actually do an update that temporarily fixes the problem in hopes customer will go away.
  • Have BMWNA's "Sock Puppet" (Vatkens) tell the poster that this has been reported to BMWNA and stall them some more.
  • tell customer to call BMWNA of which they will tell you it is up to the dealer of which they will telll you it's BMWNA's fault!
The sign that Vatkens' lack of respond here means after over a year, no real fix here.
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  #32  
Old 02-15-2008, 08:21 AM
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the trans in the X3 is a GM model... so yes, it's in MANY other brands.
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  #33  
Old 02-15-2008, 09:25 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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I can confirm that the 328 uses the same transmission as the X3 and have had no problems when given that as a loaner.

The list is the standard responses I was given and debunked immediately. It seems to me they may be the in the BMWNA customer service manual.

I have yet to get an X3 08. I may do a little recon and take my wife's car to another dealer so I can test drive one and ask the saleperson their take on the tranny if it either does or does not behave the way ours do.

I was going to do some long term test driving of other awd's this weekend, but I still have the 528 loaner.

Will post more info as it comes in......btw Land Rovers are not an option as they are being Lemon Lawed left and right for the 06 and 07 models, and folks are getting full buy backs so there's hope to solve our dilemna as well.
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  #34  
Old 02-15-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x3ml View Post
I doubt any other car uses the same AT as the 07/08 AT.

The X3 and the 328xi use the identical GM GA6L45R transmission. It may also be used in the RWD 330i coupe sold in Europe. As far as I know, these are the only BMWs currently using that AT.


The 6L45 / 6L50 have a wikipedia entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission If you include all 4 variants 6L45 / 6L50 / 6L80 / 6L90, the transmission is used in 25 different GM models alone.




The 6 cylinder powered 5 series and the RWD e90 3 series use a ZF GA6HP19Z.
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 02-15-2008 at 10:23 AM.
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  #35  
Old 02-15-2008, 10:17 AM
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Terry J. Harris Terry J. Harris is offline
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I've driven a 328xi loaner (this 5th occasion my X3 was in for the dealership tech to drive it over a period of time to see if he could replicate the hesitation, etc., I had described) and I felt it's transmission also was very erratic in response - including hesitation, rough shifting, intermittent occasions where it was revving/fighting to maintain around 1200 to 1500 rpms (rather than reaching normal idle) as it was coming to complete stops, and otherwise fairly unsatisfactory performance. So much so that I told my college daughter (who's mother wishes to buy her a new 328xi) that she has to buy a manual transmission for any BMW at this point. I think this GM GA6L45R auto transmission can present with some real gremlins, befuddling the BMW engineers.
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  #36  
Old 02-15-2008, 11:09 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Terry, if you have had bad experineces with the 328 loaner it would show why there is such polarized respones on the X3.

Where some folks swear there are no problems and others like us swear there is.

5 out of the 6 328i loaners that I drove where very smooth.

The one was as bad as the standard X3 complaints.

Has the ZF GA6 been in use longer then the GM6?
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  #37  
Old 02-15-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post

Has the ZF GA6 been in use longer then the GM6?

Yes. The ZF 6HP19 was on the e90 3 series from the start of production. I'm not sure if BMW used it before that. Audi use it too. I don't know who used it first.

The GM 6L45 and 6L50 were new for the 2007 model year.

I've been reading some posts in GM hot rod forums. A few people have tried to use the transmission so they could have a 6-speed in their custom cars. Small changes in the power train lead to all sorts of problems. Looks like the programming is very specific to the application.
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 02-15-2008 at 11:56 AM.
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  #38  
Old 02-15-2008, 12:18 PM
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To be honest, I felt the '08 X3 loaner I had behaved similarly to my mom's '06 325i. Makes sense, given they use the same gearbox. The shorter gear ratios of the X3 make it rev faster (hence, it's really fast to accelerate) but otherwise I experience similar feel and behaviour.

It's odd that despite having an additional gear, the top gear revs on the highway are the same as my '04 X3. By adding another gear, they basically shortened the first few gears, and gotten rid of the "hole" between top gear and the 2nd-to-top gear that exists on the older 5-speed autos.
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  #39  
Old 02-15-2008, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
To be honest, I felt the '08 X3 loaner I had behaved similarly to my mom's '06 325i. Makes sense, given they use the same gearbox.
'06 325i uses a ZF transmission.

Only the 328ix uses the same automatic transmission as the X3. (Not counting the European 330i )
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 02-15-2008 at 01:27 PM.
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  #40  
Old 02-15-2008, 01:26 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Ok lets take this from another angle. Why not use a transmission that is known to perform well under most conditions to an unknown. Cost?
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  #41  
Old 02-15-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Ok lets take this from another angle. Why not use a transmission that is known to perform well under most conditions to an unknown. Cost?

I don't know if the ZF 6HP19 was / is used in any x-drive car. The previous x-drive cars were 5 speeds.


It is possible the ZF gearbox is in someway unsuitable.

Or maybe Magna already had a customer for an Automatic Transfer Case and associated hardware for the GM unit. Magna provides 4WD engineering and parts for a lot of car companies. New Venture Gear is part of Magna Powertrain...


This is total speculation on my part. No hard facts.
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 02-15-2008 at 01:48 PM.
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  #42  
Old 02-15-2008, 02:17 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Has Magna been the assembly/mfg of the X3 from the beginning?

If not when was it assigned to them?

Are they also the assembly/mfg for the X5? Or any other BMW vehicles?
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  #43  
Old 02-15-2008, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Has Magna been the assembly/mfg of the X3 from the beginning?

If not when was it assigned to them?

Are they also the assembly/mfg for the X5? Or any other BMW vehicles?

Magna Steyr have been involved with the X3 from the start. They assemble all X3s, build the transfer case, and also provided engineering assistance.


All X5s are built in Spartenburg county South Carolina.

At the moment the X3 is the only car Magna builds for BMW.

Z4 production will be moving to Magna when X3 production comes to South Carolina.

Magna is currently looking for customers to take up unused plant capacity.


It is unclear if BMW will be using Magna for more than the Z4.


Summary of all planned production changes. Some of this is rumor:

X3 -- Moving to SC
X6 -- Production has begun in SC. All X6s are built in SC
Z4 -- Moving from SC to Magna Styer in Graz, Austria
X1 -- Will be built in Leipzig. Plant already tooling up.
V7 / X7 whatever they call it -- Dingolfing
Unannounced unknown vehicle -- SC. Confirmed by BMW employee.
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  #44  
Old 02-15-2008, 03:39 PM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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07 x3

I'm back. Now they won't do anything else with the car nor give me a loaner. They are forcing me into going to an attorney. I don't understand why when they know all about this problem. Can anyone explain? I'm a true BMW driver (on number 5). I am so hurt!
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  #45  
Old 02-15-2008, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
'06 325i uses a ZF transmission.

Only the 328ix uses the same automatic transmission as the X3. (Not counting the European 330i )
Really? The consensus, in the E90 section, is that only the 335i gets the high-performance ZF automatic gearbox.
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  #46  
Old 02-15-2008, 04:15 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Details

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-sea View Post
I'm back. Now they won't do anything else with the car nor give me a loaner. They are forcing me into going to an attorney. I don't understand why when they know all about this problem. Can anyone explain? I'm a true BMW driver (on number 5). I am so hurt!

You're saying that they wont take you car in for service? Please be more details. How many times has this been in for service, has it only been in for the tranny problem, The whole picture.

As much as I am not a fan of BMWNA they will call the dealer on your behalf.

Your vague comments can't help us help you. Be specific please.

With regards to the production location changes.

Makes me wonder why?

And how the vehicles will behave with different facilites.

Last edited by Evlengr; 02-15-2008 at 04:17 PM.
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  #47  
Old 02-15-2008, 04:16 PM
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kjboyd kjboyd is offline
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If they are refusing you warranty service... i think that is a whole new issue.
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-------

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2007 X3.0si PlatBronze/Beige
2006 X3 3.0i, Flamenco Red/Beige
1997 528iA, Oxford/Tan
1994 318iS, Black/Gray
1979 528iA, RubyRed, Tan
1971 2002, Sahara, Saddle
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  #48  
Old 02-15-2008, 05:13 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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I get the feeling we are all being "Played". No one is that naive, or at least I hope they aren't.

Last edited by Evlengr; 02-15-2008 at 05:35 PM.
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  #49  
Old 02-15-2008, 11:16 PM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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from the beginning.

4 days from purchase november 06 I took the car back. This may be lengthy. The car jumped constantly. As a former race car driver at Riverside, I know cars. I know when something isn't right. Details:
1.excellerate out of curve or off of a red light or trying to get into the flow of traffic on the freeway on ramp...... Red line! then the tranismission Grabs and jerks enveryone in the car.
2.Excellerate from stop light, someone stops in front of you. Before you can decellerate and get your foot to the brake, the car finally responds and lurches forward, almost hitting the car infront of you.
3.Going up to the mountains (Big Bear) coming out of the curve, excelerate, the car reves up past the red line and stays there! It never caught, as if soneone put the car in neutral causing the 10 cars behind me to swerve to avoid hitting me.
I have been in 6 close calls
Love my car. Hate having a problem. Any questions and/or suggestions appreciated. Consulted an attorney reluctently today. Says have "very strong case". I really don't want a case. I want my BMW!

Last edited by el-sea; 02-15-2008 at 11:24 PM.
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  #50  
Old 02-15-2008, 11:38 PM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awhitney07x3 View Post
Today we took our 2007 X3 in for the 5th time to get the transmission fixed. We had the software upgrade a few weeks ago and it didn't help much. It is still a very unpredicatable ride with hesitations followed by crazy full throttle accelerations usually at a road incline/decline. The only thing that may have been fixed is the complete failure to accelerate when trying to get on to the highway. The service manager said sorry, that's all we can do. To add insult to injury, our dealership no longer gives you a BMW loaner when your car is in the shop. They rented a Chevy Impala for us.

Evlengr, you are absolutely right about the BMW 'Fix'. I've heard the first 5 remarks on your list from the service department. The first 3 times we took the car in to get this problem resolved, they said they couldn't duplicate the problem and did absolutely nothing. By the 4th time, the 1 year/ 12,000 mile period was over -the Lemon Law period in GA. However, if BMW didn't do anything the first 3 times, does that mean they failed to comply with the part of the Lemon Law that says, a "reasonable number of attempts to repair a nonconformity have been undertaken"? We're consulting a lawyer about all of this.

My mother's Dodge caravan shifts better than our X3. Pitiful and very, very disappointing. I don't know if we will ever buy another BMW. Our first 4 were great but this fiasco has me thinking BMW doesn't make quality vehicles any longer.
I am on the same page! Be glad your dealer offered you a loaner/rental car at all! Mine basically said with out saying "call an attorney" stating it was BMW NA and not the dealer who was responsible. I am considering calling someone to talk class action suit. Does anyone agree?
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