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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #51  
Old 02-16-2008, 12:34 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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El-sea,

one of the most aggravating things about this whole situation is the dealer blames BMWNA and BMWNA says it is the dealers repsonsibility.

Is this vehicle an 07? You mentioned 06 and they are different transmissions. in other words is the notorious 6 speed AT?

If they are refusing you warranty service----- report it to the Attorney Generals Office for Consumer Fraud.

I know for a fact that the division in CA doesnt screw around.


On another note I absolutely agree that this is bordering on class action lawsuit. Unfortunately, it takes someone being injured to make something of this magnitude to move forward.

I am working with an attorney atm as well as the AG's office. I can say nothing more than that at this time.

IMO this is not a BMW so it needs to earn its stripes, the only way you are going to get a BMW is to follow the steps recommended.

Good Luck and get an attorney!
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  #52  
Old 02-16-2008, 06:17 AM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
Really? The consensus, in the E90 section, is that only the 335i gets the high-performance ZF automatic gearbox.
The 2006 325i got the ZF as well. The 328i gets the GM unit.

I looked up the parts



e46 Sedan
2005 330xi sedan 12/2004 GM A5S 390R - YX Part number 24 00 7 523 281

e83 X3
2006 X3 3.0i 7/2006 GM A5S 390R - YX Part number 24 00 7 523 281
2007 X3 3.0si 10/2006 GM GA6L45R - 4-WHEEL. Part Number 24 00 7 566 254

e90 Sedans:
2006 325i up to 08/2006 ZF GA6HP19Z. Part number 24 00 7 547 901
2007 328i 10/2006 GM GA6L45R. Part number 24 00 7 566 249
2007 328xi 10/2006 GM GA6L45R - 4-WHEEL. Part number 24 00 7 566 255
2007 335i 10/2006 ZF 6HP19. Part number 24 00 7 564 242


e60 Sedans:

2006 525i ZF 6HP19. Part number 24 00 7 547 901
2007 530i 10/2006 ZF 6HP19. Part number 24 00 7 547 899
2007 530xi 10/2006 ZF 6HP19 - 4-WHEEL. Part number 24 00 7 548 369
2007 550i 10/2006 ZF 6HP26 Part number 24 00 7 555 928
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 02-16-2008 at 06:28 AM.
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  #53  
Old 02-16-2008, 06:34 AM
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That explains why the window sticker on the 325i (SA) notes a German-sourced transmission, whilst the 328i stickers all say France. I wonder if they drive any different. Ok, back on topic.
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  #54  
Old 02-16-2008, 08:51 AM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
El-sea,

one of the most aggravating things about this whole situation is the dealer blames BMWNA and BMWNA says it is the dealers repsonsibility.

Is this vehicle an 07? You mentioned 06 and they are different transmissions. in other words is the notorious 6 speed AT?

If they are refusing you warranty service----- report it to the Attorney Generals Office for Consumer Fraud.

I know for a fact that the division in CA doesnt screw around.


On another note I absolutely agree that this is bordering on class action lawsuit. Unfortunately, it takes someone being injured to make something of this magnitude to move forward.

I am working with an attorney atm as well as the AG's office. I can say nothing more than that at this time.

IMO this is not a BMW so it needs to earn its stripes, the only way you are going to get a BMW is to follow the steps recommended.

Good Luck and get an attorney!
Thank you for all of your help. I did everything BMW asked me to do. Once again they say there is nothing wrong with my car basically telling me I'm coocoo. After an entire year of this they forced me to get an attorney yesterday. Found a LA one who says he's seen many of these. And that I have a very strong case. BMW unlike Audi and GM has been settling out of court. Yes mine is an 07. She's a real beauty and handles so well for an suv. If only the transmission was a real bmw like the rest of her!
I will report to the AG because yes, they refused to fix the problem because they can't duplicate it. I told them to drive it up the mountain in freezing temps (that's when it went past redline and never went into gear at all!) They couldn't be bothered. All they had to do was look at this sticky thread to "know" there is a problem and I am not coocoo. What car do I buy when BMW pays me off? Will they fix this problem for 2009 x3's? Does anyone know.
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  #55  
Old 02-16-2008, 10:10 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Don't Forget

Please make sure to post to the NHTSA as they are the governmental organization that can push BMW to make a recall on this problem.

The more organizations this is reported to, the harder it will be for BMWNA to sweep this under the carpet.

This seems to be very uncommon I might add with most BMW's and specifically targeted to the GM6 transmission built in France.

There is a lot of finger pointing between dealerships and BMWNA. And no one will own up to the problem.

The good dealers are smart and get out of the problem as fast as possible.
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  #56  
Old 02-16-2008, 01:03 PM
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Terry J. Harris Terry J. Harris is offline
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For those of you who feel your Manual mode works quite well, can you try something for me? Start off in M1 by applying just enough gas pedal to reach around 1400 to 1600 rpms, and maintain those rpms in M1 for as long as the car will do so. Without applying any additional gas pedal, will your X3 then accelerate to around 3000 to 3500 rmps in M1? Mine does this after about 2 seconds at the 1400 rpm range. Just curious. Thanks!
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  #57  
Old 02-16-2008, 01:45 PM
awhitney07x3 awhitney07x3 is offline
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bad publicity

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-sea View Post
I am on the same page! Be glad your dealer offered you a loaner/rental car at all! Mine basically said with out saying "call an attorney" stating it was BMW NA and not the dealer who was responsible. I am considering calling someone to talk class action suit. Does anyone agree?
Perhaps it won't have to go as far as a class action lawsuit. I can only hope that BMWNA will do the right thing, eventually; but the way they have behaved so far is not favorable. I think the more negative publicity we instill, the better, as others have said. There must be other avenues to take. What are the car magazines and online reviews saying? Maybe we could take ads out in Car & Driver, Motor Trend, etc, asking for people with 07 X3 transmission problems to write certified letters to BMWNA. At least that would bring awareness of the problem to the auto world. Am I naiive to think that will do any good?

I understand why the dealers would want to put the blame on the manufacturer. BMWNA has given them lemons to sell. But the dealers' service depts have discredited both BMWNA and the dealers by insisting there was nothing wrong with the X3 and the owners were nuts to keep bringing in their vehicle for an imaginary problem. I guess we all have vivid imaginations and ESP since we are all having the same nightmare.
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  #58  
Old 02-16-2008, 02:30 PM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el-sea View Post
What car do I buy when BMW pays me off?
An X3 with a manual transmission. Our is great.

Did you ever try taking your car to another dealer? I've seen several cases where the cars were not diagnosed or repaired correctly.


Quote:
Will they fix this problem for 2009 x3's? Does anyone know.
Who knows BMW continues to release updates. The most recent one made things worse and was pulled. Presumably, they will fix it and release it again.

I think part of the problem is that there is more than one problem. If you read through the posts, not all cars have the same symptoms.
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The models and equipment (standard and optional) illustrated in this post reflect my misunderstanding of vehicles supplied by BMW AG to the German market. In other EU member states, the truthyness of my posts may vary. Please ignore this post. Subject to change.

Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 02-16-2008 at 02:33 PM.
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  #59  
Old 02-16-2008, 04:17 PM
arcane arcane is offline
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Wait, Please Wait

That's why my SA has asked, after he and the BMWUSA regional service representative drove my X3 and confirmed that it has the X3AT disease. He said that BMW is devoting serious engineering effort to fixing this, and asked me to give them 4-5 weeks, which equates to mid-March. After that, I am told, if there is no fix, the dealer will refund (which is what I asked for).

I'm willing to hope for the best: if it doesn't work out my VP for blame is going to insist on a L*x*s RX (interesting model name, eh?).
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  #60  
Old 02-16-2008, 04:39 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Exclamation Cya

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcane View Post
That's why my SA has asked, after he and the BMWUSA regional service representative drove my X3 and confirmed that it has the X3AT disease. He said that BMW is devoting serious engineering effort to fixing this, and asked me to give them 4-5 weeks, which equates to mid-March. After that, I am told, if there is no fix, the dealer will refund (which is what I asked for).

I'm willing to hope for the best: if it doesn't work out my VP for blame is going to insist on a L*x*s RX (interesting model name, eh?).
Arcane I reported this back in 05/07 and still dealing with it. Many people have been stalled just as long.
Personally I wouldnt do it. They have tried six times (4 is the limit for Lemon Law in my state), and keep saying we are committed to getting it right. They had the "Master Mechanic" from BMWNA tell me that it took him three times to get the SIB they currently have to stick. Preety bad when the head guy from BMWNA can't get it right. In the meantime I am paying full shot monthly payments for a vehicle that is 50% of what it should be.

To cover yourself please send a certified letter to BMWNA stating exactly what your SA said and what the dealer has promised to do. This will lock them down under Lemon Law regulations.
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  #61  
Old 02-16-2008, 04:59 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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It is the Same

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
An X3 with a manual transmission. Our is great.

Did you ever try taking your car to another dealer? I've seen several cases where the cars were not diagnosed or repaired correctly.




Who knows BMW continues to release updates. The most recent one made things worse and was pulled. Presumably, they will fix it and release it again.

I think part of the problem is that there is more than one problem. If you read through the posts, not all cars have the same symptoms.
A/D of all people on this website you have been the most neutral and polite. So I say this in the kindest way that I respectfully disagree. Just about everyone's symptoms are the same. They only change is due to what version of update they have in their DME and EGS they may be more or less severe.

Universally, there is a problem with shifting between 2-3 gear, stuttering when coming to rolling stop, and gear not fully engaging at a normal rpms.

I have offered several times for BMWNA to "Black Box" the vehicle since it is insane to ask a BMW rep to sit in my car for an extneded period of time. They have refused.

Not exactly a normal request but not exactly a normal situation. I don't think they are giving it the attention it deserves.
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  #62  
Old 02-16-2008, 06:08 PM
dashiell dashiell is offline
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Arcane, what is the build date for your car?
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  #63  
Old 02-16-2008, 06:25 PM
arcane arcane is offline
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Build Date

11/05/07. There are no viable SIB's to be installed, and they don't want to reinstall anything.

I have been in written contact with BMWUSA, and they say to work with the dealer. I'm willing to trust the dealer SA and the dealer management until mid March. The clock is ticking.
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  #64  
Old 02-16-2008, 06:51 PM
Snow-man Snow-man is offline
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Unhappy Bummer Bimmer

Today I test drove the 08 BMW X3.

GOOD:
  • Handling
  • Ergonomics
  • Heated Seats
  • Heated Steering Wheel
  • Legroom and positioning of pedals
  • Cargo Area
  • Braking
  • Line of Vision

BAD:
  • Transmission - exactly as folks have posted. Can't find gears, racing rpms, SD drops gears like a Hammer

The sales man explained that due to the low mileage on the vehicle that its "Adaptive Transmission" would learn my style of driving and that would go away. I drove a new X5as well. It also had low mileage, but did not exhibit the transmission behavior. I asked the salesman if this also had an "Adaptive Transmission" of which he replied, "Yes".
I like everything about the X3, except the transmission. Normally I would have believed the salesman but I am unwilling to take a $42 thousand chance after all I have read. I explained in order for me to fully appreciate the vehicle I would need to drive a manual transmission. I did not mention or make him explain that this seems to be a very common problem among the new X3 BMW's.He is going to try to find one for me to test drive. For a new car to perform that way of any manufacturer, let along BMW is unfathomable. I will not be buying the AT 08 X3. Bummer Bimmer

Last edited by Snow-man; 02-16-2008 at 06:55 PM.
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  #65  
Old 02-16-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow-man View Post
Today I test drove the 08 BMW X3.

GOOD:
  • Handling
  • Ergonomics
  • Heated Seats
  • Heated Steering Wheel
  • Legroom and positioning of pedals
  • Cargo Area
  • Braking
  • Line of Vision

BAD:
  • Transmission - exactly as folks have posted. Can't find gears, racing rpms, SD drops gears like a Hammer

The sales man explained that due to the low mileage on the vehicle that its "Adaptive Transmission" would learn my style of driving and that would go away. I drove a new X5as well. It also had low mileage, but did not exhibit the transmission behavior. I asked the salesman if this also had an "Adaptive Transmission" of which he replied, "Yes".
I like everything about the X3, except the transmission. Normally I would have believed the salesman but I am unwilling to take a $42 thousand chance after all I have read. I explained in order for me to fully appreciate the vehicle I would need to drive a manual transmission. I did not mention or make him explain that this seems to be a very common problem among the new X3 BMW's.He is going to try to find one for me to test drive. For a new car to perform that way of any manufacturer, let along BMW is unfathomable. I will not be buying the AT 08 X3. Bummer Bimmer
Find another X3 with the AT. What build date was your tester? Try another one if you can. I don't know about your dealer, but the dealer we bought our BMWs from lets people test drive most of the BMWs on the lot; They usually don't have specific "tester cars" except for new model releases, like when the 335i coupe first came out. (Then again, they let me test drive a brand new 335i coupe from a canceled order, with just 5 miles on the clock!)

To future posters that may be looking at test driving: Please note the build date on the vehicle information sticker, on the driver's door or driver's door frame
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  #66  
Old 02-16-2008, 08:11 PM
Snow-man Snow-man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
Find another X3 with the AT. What build date was your tester? Try another one if you can. I don't know about your dealer, but the dealer we bought our BMWs from lets people test drive most of the BMWs on the lot; They usually don't have specific "tester cars" except for new model releases, like when the 335i coupe first came out. (Then again, they let me test drive a brand new 335i coupe from a canceled order, with just 5 miles on the clock!)

To future posters that may be looking at test driving: Please note the build date on the vehicle information sticker, on the driver's door or driver's door frame
AzMpower32, doesnt that seem a little silly to have to check the build date on the car your are test driving? Oh Im sorry the 40 thousand dollar plus car isnt right. Let me try another. I just picked out one that seemed to have the features I was looking for. It was not a tester vehicle. It was an 08 and should have had that worked out by now Right? Isnt that what people have been saying? I havent discounted the vehicle. Just the AT. Burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.
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  #67  
Old 02-16-2008, 08:47 PM
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Terry J. Harris Terry J. Harris is offline
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Snow-man, you very cogently make the simple point in all of this. While AzMpower32 and others may have X3AT's that truly respond to throttle input, there clearly are those X3's that don't. It's that simple - were not talking about a bad cup of coffee at the local coffee house, we're talking a $42K vehicle made by a company that has a history and reputation, deservedly, for making vehicles that perform, and perform particularly well. None of us with experience with BMW feel anything but pride and appreciation when we see or hear the slogan "ultimate driving experience" and have real experience with that from the bottom of the line on up. But "performance" in large part starts with predictable and expected response to driver input. The X3AT, both '07 and '08 from the owners posting on this BB, has some problems with living up to driver input. The vehicle otherwise is fantastic and other complaints seem trivial to the AT performance. But that fact changes nothing regarding the AT issue, and issue which appears to remain unresolved by BMW.
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  #68  
Old 02-16-2008, 09:10 PM
doubledeclutch doubledeclutch is offline
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Unfortunately, the fact that the X3 doesn't have any truly strong competitors may be the reason BMW has been so slow on adressing the issue. I just don't see the same slow response happening if Mercedes and Audi had their competitors on the market. Maybe I'm just being cynical.
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  #69  
Old 02-16-2008, 09:26 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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If the vehicles don't work then they are no longer competive it would seem, and judging by their sales. That may be the case. Do I wish that upon them. Yup..then maybe BWMNA will wise up and take care of things. Who knows at this point though.

Thinking about some other options if BMWNA will smarten up. What is the background on the 335i?

I have had a 528xi (a little gadgety if thats a word) this whole weekend and I love the car. However a 335 with the cold weather package seems to me a one for one in price to my X3.

Does the 335 have the dreaded GM6 tranny?
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  #70  
Old 02-16-2008, 10:15 PM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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Nhtsa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Please make sure to post to the NHTSA as they are the governmental organization that can push BMW to make a recall on this problem.

The more organizations this is reported to, the harder it will be for BMWNA to sweep this under the carpet.

This seems to be very uncommon I might add with most BMW's and specifically targeted to the GM6 transmission built in France.

There is a lot of finger pointing between dealerships and BMWNA. And no one will own up to the problem.

The good dealers are smart and get out of the problem as fast as possible.
I Reported to NHATSA This morning.
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  #71  
Old 02-16-2008, 10:26 PM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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different dealerships?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
An X3 with a manual transmission. Our is great.

Did you ever try taking your car to another dealer? I've seen several cases where the cars were not diagnosed or repaired correctly.




Who knows BMW continues to release updates. The most recent one made things worse and was pulled. Presumably, they will fix it and release it again.

I think part of the problem is that there is more than one problem. If you read through the posts, not all cars have the same symptoms.
I have tried 3 different dealerships. The last was the most respectful and truly the most helpful. They even seemed concern until it came down to the last straw BMW NA...I went back and forth from dealership to BMW NA. They each said well the other says there's nothing wrong and nothing they can do. There is no problem if it doesn't happen when the tech drives it. BMWNA even sent a specialist out to the dealer. Didn't happen when he drove it so......My word and my children and grandchildren and friends word means nothing. Like someone here said "we are all hallucinating" or have ESP...(that one I have to Anni up to though). Is anyone else's surging forward after you take your foot off of the gas? One comment I am curious about a note from the tech in some paperwork .. "the tack hit 7000 in sport drive". Is it suppose to do that? I am not that knowledgeable.

Last edited by el-sea; 02-16-2008 at 10:31 PM.
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  #72  
Old 02-16-2008, 10:45 PM
el-sea el-sea is offline
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trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcane View Post
11/05/07. There are no viable SIB's to be installed, and they don't want to reinstall anything.

I have been in written contact with BMWUSA, and they say to work with the dealer. I'm willing to trust the dealer SA and the dealer management until mid March. The clock is ticking.
I trusted for 15 months and 10 near accidents. 3 dealerships, BMWNA and now I have to put my trust in an attorney. bummed on my 5th bimmer
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  #73  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:36 PM
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HT417 HT417 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Does the 335 have the dreaded GM6 tranny?
No, it has the newest ZF and my colleague swears by it. However, IF it's the same tranny as the 535xi gets, then you can still expect a big pregnant pause if you floor it in Drive at around 20mph. I experienced this myself as a passenger in a demo model with ~8000 miles on it. It would appear that any action that forces the engine control and tranny control to have to put their heads together will result in some kind of unwanted delay. For the quickest throttle response it seems Manual or Sport modes will always be best.
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  #74  
Old 02-17-2008, 01:01 AM
dashiell dashiell is offline
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El-sea, I live on the Westside, I'm curious what dealers have you been to and what are your reviews of them? I personally go to SMBMW, and though the SA's are very pleasant, I have had many instances where my X5 was not properly fixed and I had to bring it back in for the same repair. Totally unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Many of the guy's in the shop seem to be incompetent, and unfortunately the SA's don't appear to check their work.
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  #75  
Old 02-17-2008, 06:01 AM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
.

Does the 335 have the dreaded GM6 tranny?

No. Both the coupe and sedan use a ZF transmission. I looked up a bunch of part numbers and posted a list of transmissions in this thread.

Here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=52
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