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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E36 (1991 - 1999)

E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 02-26-2008, 05:22 PM
Boile Boile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCANDINAVIAN13 View Post
They're one in the same, essentially.
No.
See the post above.
One is the torch. The other is the butane tank feeding the torch.
Calling them the same is a matter of granularity.
We could call the entire engine a single functional unit.
But that doesn't help in this discussion.
The OP wants to mod the coils. The correct answer is NO.
If he wanted to mod the spark plugs, the answer could be a qualified YES.
Very different items.
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2008, 05:27 PM
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Make, year, model? I can't seem to find anything about this on google, and I know for Audi's from what I've read thats incorrect.

Did you neglect the match in my analogy? Or did you read it at all? The match is stock coils + plugs. The torch is the upgraded + coils and plugs. You overanalyzed it (or didn't at all). The parts in the analogy reflected the upgrades.

You amaze me how simple concepts can be lost on you. Go get a blow torch and a match. Time for 2 seconds after hitting it with either. See which has burned more. Thats the whole point. Thats it. No more analyzing. No super butane or other crap. Go reread it.

By the way, we all agree that the Okada, and even the BavAuto, aren't worth it on a street car.

But to deny that they do any good is false.
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Last edited by E36 Phantom; 02-26-2008 at 05:29 PM.
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
In your paper/torch analogy, you need to be more accurate.
The torch would be the spark plugs. The coil is the butane tank feeding the torch.
How do I make the paper burn faster? I use multiple torches (or torch several spots on the paper).
Attaching a bigger super duper butane tank to it is not going to do sh1t.
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:30 PM
SCANDINAVIAN13 SCANDINAVIAN13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boile View Post
No.
See the post above.
One is the torch. The other is the butane tank feeding the torch.
Calling them the same is a matter of granularity.
We could call the entire engine a single functional unit.
But that doesn't help in this discussion.
The OP wants to mod the coils. The correct answer is NO.
If he wanted to mod the spark plugs, the answer could be a qualified YES.
Very different items.
You're using the wrong analogy for the wrong purpose, chief.
If you really want to force me into the blow torch analogy, if the butane bottle of the torch is somehow restricted, the amount of butane fed into the flame would be less, which means that the flame would not be as large, and therefore less effective. If you had a bigger tank, with a bigger neck, with better flow, you have the potential for a larger flame. Quit ignoring the principle of my argument and playing it off as nonsense. If you actually stopped to try and understand what Chad and I are trying to say, instead of trying to blindly refute everything, we wouldn't be having issues.

As for your multiple points assertion (assuming you mean this is analogous to multiple spark plugs), yes, this helps to burn the mixture faster as I pointed out several posts ago. However, multiple sparks and bigger sparks serve the same purpose. Yes, multiple sparks are loads better than a single, larger spark, but a single spark can be made more powerful to increase the performance of the engine.

Do we need to put this in pictures for you to understand? I'm not past it if it helps you to finally understand the correct application of performance theory.


As for the original poster's query, I answered it. I said it's not cost-effective. The rest of this thread is all about dealing with your illogic.
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Last edited by SCANDINAVIAN13; 02-26-2008 at 07:32 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:56 PM
CJH CJH is offline
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Two sh!thouse engineers trying to see whose dick is bigger (Boile/Phantom) Scandinavian's comments are the only ones with technical merit. Actually you're both wrong on several accounts. Twin plug engines are nothing new. Alfa Romeo has been mass producing them in different configurations for over 40 years. Mercedes Benz has been making V6 & V8 twin plug engines for the C & S class cars including the brutal AMG cars. Maserati, Porsche, numerous motorcycle engines including BMW use twin plugs. As stated, aircraft have used them for many years. Large stationary engines (5,000-10,000HP that run at max power for years) use multiple plugs & multiple discharge systems, as well as 4 electrode plugs that you all seem to douche on.

This technology along with multiple valves, piston & head design is a matter of controlling the flame propogation in the combustion chamber. Multiple arcs from multiple plugs igniting a controlled swirling fuel charge is the most efficient (three valves to induce swirl on the MB, Ford, GM engines), Honda's CVCC, are all methods of controlling the flame front.

On a stock engine these coils are a waste of money. Add high levels of supercharging when the air/fuel charge is more difficult to ignite, they have merit.

Last edited by CJH; 02-26-2008 at 08:16 PM.
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  #31  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:00 PM
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  #32  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:42 PM
SCANDINAVIAN13 SCANDINAVIAN13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJH View Post
Two sh!thouse engineers trying to see whose dick is bigger (Boile/Phantom) Scandinavian's comments are the only ones with technical merit. Actually you're both wrong on several accounts. Twin plug engines are nothing new. Alfa Romeo has been mass producing them in different configurations for over 40 years. Mercedes Benz has been making V6 & V8 twin plug engines for the C & S class cars including the brutal AMG cars. Maserati, Porsche, numerous motorcycle engines including BMW use twin plugs. As stated, aircraft have used them for many years. Large stationary engines (5,000-10,000HP that run at max power for years) use multiple plugs & multiple discharge systems, as well as 4 electrode plugs that you all seem to douche on.

This technology along with multiple valves, piston & head design is a matter of controlling the flame propogation in the combustion chamber. Multiple arcs from multiple plugs igniting a controlled swirling fuel charge is the most efficient (three valves to induce swirl on the MB, Ford, GM engines), Honda's CVCC, are all methods of controlling the flame front.

On a stock engine these coils are a waste of money. Add high levels of supercharging when the air/fuel charge is more difficult to ignite, they have merit.
Exactly my point (especially the last part). Thanks for the backing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boile View Post
.
That was very productive, relevant and helpful. Thanks for that.
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  #33  
Old 05-09-2013, 05:55 AM
thillskier thillskier is offline
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I can assure you for flying for 30+ years of piston powered twin plug engines, EVERY time you take off and do a mag check, to check that there is a 300-+ rpm drop when shutting off one of the mags, it PROVES there is a SIGNIFICANT increase in efficiency with more/better/multiple spark. I installed a trick Jacobs Ignition box ($500.00)! in 1991 on my Mitsubishi 3l V6 FI pickup, and it increased mileage and power very noticably. I got 1.5 MPG roughly, increase (from better low end tq IMHO) due th the multiple and stronger spark technology. It also helped ALL the powerband increase. Probably 5-8 hp and same or a little better in tq. The fitch fuel catalysts also work on the same principle except making the fuel more homogenous (breaking down the larger more complex H/C's and combining the light aeromatics to make the fuel burn more completely, and a more controlled burn (and complete) This will ALWAYS result in burning the fuel MORE COMPLETELY, resultiung in LESS emissions, more tq, and Hp at a given fuel quantity being introduced. The timing can slightly go more retarded, increasing tq as well.
Just like when engines were first going to fuel injection, mileage went up and emissions went down, because more complete (because of more coinsistant a/f ratios and that meant more complete combustion). When efficiency goes up, mileage does as well. Power does not necessarily go up, however, especially at the introductory phase in of the newer tech. But just like efi made turbocharging a safe and relatively easier thing to do after the ecu was decoded )or standalones were installed, as everyone did initially). Turboing a carbed ANYTHING is a PITA, and NOT reliable!!
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  #34  
Old 05-09-2013, 07:13 AM
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why are you reviving this dead ancient ass thread. the last post was in '08
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  #35  
Old 05-09-2013, 08:19 AM
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  #36  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:00 AM
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At least I got a cool Chad quote out of it.
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Jared, why don't you just put "It's Giubo" in your sig? Save a lot of typing.
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this jared guy sounds intimidating lol.
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