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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #126  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:59 AM
Zdriver Zdriver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superstock View Post
When I said that BMW didn't know how to add lightness I was not critiqueing their engineering process.
If a backyard tuner trying to make his GTO faster in the quarter mile than add in a lexan instead of glass, swap in aluminum suspension components, put on lightweight rims, add an aluminum head, strip his interior and put in racing buckets than of course BMW should be able to do the same thing. Doing something and doing something ECONOMICALLY is the difference. BMW does not think about adding lightness or the one series would come standard with no sunroof, no power folding mirrors. As I said, anyone can take a wrench to their car and remove weight. BMW just charged you 15k for it.

And the I purposely ignored BMW's previous turbo experience because it was so very long ago. Merely mentioning the 1930 turbojet engines is ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous. It's quite relevant to your analogy (using pilots, of all things).
Did you forget the turbocharged diesels that BMW have been using in Europe in recent times? Your implication was that BMW are newbs when it comes to turbocharging. They don't even have 20 year's experience!

GTO, haha. Talk about a pig! BMW starts to look very good after you mention that car.
Actually, you were critiqueing their engineering, by implying they don't know how to do it.
Sunroof is only standard on the 1-Series in some markets. In Europe, you can have a very stripped down 1-Series, without a sunroof and with cloth. The way the 1-Series arrives in the US (and the absence of a 1-Series hatch) tells you a lot more about our market than it says about BMW.
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  #127  
Old 04-25-2008, 10:19 AM
superstock superstock is offline
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American BMW = fat pig badge whore cars.

I merely mentioned the GTO because that car is outrageously overweight and Pontiac had no interest in keeping weight down. Though it isn't much heavier than the new M3 and has a 400hp/400ftlb V8. And it also had an MSRP significantly below a base 135 with more standard equipment (LSD anyone?) The GTO is also much quicker in a straight line than a 135 and just gets quicker with anything besides the stock 245 all seasons. And it gets comparable mileage while offering comparable interior space. The BMW is undoubtably nicer but remember, it is slower and less powerful.

BMW has a very steep badge premium attached to it in the United States. Without that premium you would see a 135 priced closer to 31-32k.

And one last time, i was not critiequeing the engineering; any redneck with a wrench can lighten a car. The CSL proves that BMW can as well. I was critiequing their beancounters and general direction for the car where BMW makes you pay for fancy folding mirrors, sunroofs, excessive sound deadening, and other premium touches in their supposedly sporty entry level car (1 series) by comparing it to the outrageously expensive CSL package. They should have stripped out the premium stuff, spent the money on shaving weight from car and offered a true entry level sporty car.
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  #128  
Old 04-25-2008, 02:07 PM
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germanblood germanblood is offline
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Originally Posted by superstock View Post
My car looked brand new once it was detailed and was a significant discount from MSRP. Since I didn't have a crazy red interior the car went fast, as I knew it would.
Still picking on the red interiors? Just so you know, my M3 (with red leather) was on the market for a whole three days before I snatched it up. There was even a guy who called the seller, while I was finishing up my test drive, who offered more than what I was willing to pay. Generalizations, especially bad ones, are very weak urguing tools.
I think you are just trying to piss of as many people as possible just to get your post count up.
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  #129  
Old 04-25-2008, 03:35 PM
Zdriver Zdriver is offline
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Originally Posted by superstock View Post
Though it isn't much heavier than the new M3 and has a 400hp/400ftlb V8. And it also had an MSRP significantly below a base 135 with more standard equipment (LSD anyone?) The GTO is also much quicker in a straight line than a 135 and just gets quicker with anything besides the stock 245 all seasons. And it gets comparable mileage while offering comparable interior space. The BMW is undoubtably nicer but remember, it is slower and less powerful.
Not much heavier? It's about 100 lbs heavier than a well-optioned M3 sedan (with sunroof, EDC, nav, heated seats, the works). Considering how comparatively stripped it is, and the fact that it has that light and simple alloy pushrod engine, it should weigh less.
The GTO is not that much quicker in a straight line. Look at the Motor Trend 1/4 mile numbers:
135i - 13.3 @ 106
GTO - 13.3 @ 106

Skidpad:
135i - 0.94g
GTO - 0.83g

MT figure-8:
135i - 25.2 seconds
GTO - 26.8

60-0 braking:
135i - 102
GTO - 138

More standard equipment? About the only significant thing the GTO has on the 135i is the LSD. 135i has:
auto-dimming and heated mirrors
sunroof
6-piston Brembos
regenerative braking
intelligent alternator control
direct injection
hill hold assist
automatic brake drying with pre-safe
active brake lights
adaptive (cornering) Xenons
ESP
gas shocks
multi-link rear suspension
tire pressure monitor
fold-away foot pedals
side impact and curtain airbags
dual-zone automatic climate control
AUX input
no-cost genuine wood or aluminum trim
included maintenance
And that's even before you get into things like driving dynamics, steering feel, transmission quality. The GTO should be priced cheaper because it had to be. And even then, it wasn't priced low enough. Also, I doubt the Euro was as strong back then as it is now.
Comparable mileage, only because of that stupidly long 6th gear. In C&D's test, the GTO only managed 14 mpg in mixed driving. The 135i got 21 mpg, 50% more.

"BMW has a very steep badge premium attached to it in the United States. Without that premium you would see a 135 priced closer to 31-32k. "
If you already realize that, then why are you even complaining about the price? Right off the bat, the 135i should cost more than the GTO, which is a recycled Holden anyway. That it is loaded with much more technology, is as quick as the GTO, outhandles the GTO (even on its ridiculously staggered runflats), outbrakes the GTO, and comes from a premium-brand manufacturer, well, that speaks much more highly of BMW than you're willing to give them credit.

You can blame the beancounters, but have you personally written in to BMW to let them know you want a stripper sportscar? I seriously doubt it. I also doubt that a lot of people in this market have done that. The car is the way it is because that's what the market wants. Instead of pointing the finger at BMW, why not point it at the consumer? They are just as liable. It's like so-called purists complaining about sportscars coming with cupholders; gee, if people in this market didn't want them that way, they wouldn't have them.
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  #130  
Old 04-25-2008, 09:08 PM
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Instead of pointing the finger at BMW, why not point it at the consumer? They are just as liable. It's like so-called purists complaining about sportscars coming with cupholders; gee, if people in this market didn't want them that way, they wouldn't have them.
I've been saying just that, exactly.

But we also have to blame the US government's ridiculous crash test requirements. The UK can have all these car companies that make like 10 sports cars/year. There's like a hundred such companies in the UK.

Here in the US, you can't make a profit on a car unless you can sell thousands of them, so it forces car companies to cater to the mass market.
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  #131  
Old 04-26-2008, 12:10 AM
BlackJetE90 BlackJetE90 is offline
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We should just shut this thread down.

I think everything has be said.
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  #132  
Old 04-27-2008, 01:29 AM
Dan203 Dan203 is offline
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Originally Posted by superstock View Post
So did i and they are great. The new ones are infinitely better than the earlier NA and NB models built up to 2005. And they make much better track cars than the 135. They are 900lbs lighter!!! Also cheap to buy, fix, insure and modify. The BMW is cheap to do nothing.
Actually my wife's 2008 hard top Miata costs more to insure then my 135i, by almost $100 per 6 months.

Dan
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  #133  
Old 04-27-2008, 10:14 AM
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We should just shut this thread down.

I think everything has be said.
+1 LOL!
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  #134  
Old 04-27-2008, 11:30 PM
2high2aim 2high2aim is offline
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Hey I was reading this cuz i am about to buy a new car and dam i read so many pages of information. I used to own a 240 and sold it and it time for me to buy a new car and I am now doing my research on my future car options. Well here is what cars I am interested in BMW 3 Series, BMW 1 Series, Infiniti G37, Lexus IS350, or the Mitsubishi Evo X GSR. Any information would be helpful.

I intend this car be a daily driven car and some track maybe 10 times a year as i enjoy speed and I will be modifying it visually and performance wise and looking for sponsorship.


Oh yea I had a question isn't the BMW 335i and the BMW 135i share the same engine???????????
So for performance they both are the same right? I not sure of the engine name but I know they both are turbo'd and produce 300 hp&trq.
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  #135  
Old 04-28-2008, 01:34 AM
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ZHPEE ZHPEE is offline
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superstock isn't allowed to buy a BMW...... he is banned from BMW for being a smacktard.
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  #136  
Old 04-28-2008, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 2high2aim View Post
Hey I was reading this cuz i am about to buy a new car and dam i read so many pages of information. I used to own a 240 and sold it and it time for me to buy a new car and I am now doing my research on my future car options. Well here is what cars I am interested in BMW 3 Series, BMW 1 Series, Infiniti G37, Lexus IS350, or the Mitsubishi Evo X GSR. Any information would be helpful.

I intend this car be a daily driven car and some track maybe 10 times a year as i enjoy speed and I will be modifying it visually and performance wise and looking for sponsorship.


Oh yea I had a question isn't the BMW 335i and the BMW 135i share the same engine???????????
So for performance they both are the same right? I not sure of the engine name but I know they both are turbo'd and produce 300 hp&trq.

performance close but not the same....

bmwusa.com

spend some time there...
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  #137  
Old 04-28-2008, 08:53 AM
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germanblood germanblood is offline
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Originally Posted by 2high2aim View Post
Hey I was reading this cuz i am about to buy a new car and dam i read so many pages of information. I used to own a 240 and sold it and it time for me to buy a new car and I am now doing my research on my future car options. Well here is what cars I am interested in BMW 3 Series, BMW 1 Series, Infiniti G37, Lexus IS350, or the Mitsubishi Evo X GSR. Any information would be helpful.

I intend this car be a daily driven car and some track maybe 10 times a year as i enjoy speed and I will be modifying it visually and performance wise and looking for sponsorship.


Oh yea I had a question isn't the BMW 335i and the BMW 135i share the same engine???????????
So for performance they both are the same right? I not sure of the engine name but I know they both are turbo'd and produce 300 hp&trq.
This is a pretty good comparo betweenthe e46 M3, 135, and 335:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125908
BTW, I have a 02 M3(red on red, 6spd) for sale if you want to check it out. I am located in North County San Diego.
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  #138  
Old 04-28-2008, 09:04 PM
2high2aim 2high2aim is offline
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Thanks for that link, and I am wondering why the 335i is more then the 135i, if the 135i performs better and looks better? Does the 335i have more gadgets or wat? Thanks for all the information.

Last edited by 2high2aim; 04-28-2008 at 09:12 PM.
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  #139  
Old 04-29-2008, 08:16 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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Originally Posted by 2high2aim View Post
Thanks for that link, and I am wondering why the 335i is more then the 135i, if the 135i performs better and looks better? Does the 335i have more gadgets or wat? Thanks for all the information.
It has a slightly higher level of standard equipment and comes with little touches like seat belt handlers, night "theater" lighting, power seats. It is also the larger and more luxurious model that has a softer ride. The looks are very subjective, your idea of what "looks better" is not shared by either the general public or most of the automotive press. By and large the consensus is that the 3 series is the prettier car.

By and large it is the same reason the 535 is more expensive than a 335. It gives up a tad of acceleration and handling for space and refinement. The 1 series is just a step lower on the space/refinement scale.
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  #140  
Old 04-29-2008, 08:18 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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superstock isn't allowed to buy a BMW...... he is banned from BMW for being a smacktard.
temper temper. Not everyone lives and breathes BMW.
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  #141  
Old 04-29-2008, 11:35 PM
BlackJetE90 BlackJetE90 is offline
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I would say there is just as many pluses for the 135i as there is for the 335i. As far as refinement, I don't think the 335i is any nicer inside than a 135i.

Yes the 335i has standard, power seats, ambient lighting, 1.7 inches extra rear leg room.

But the 135i has standard equipment not found on the 335i, Brembo 6-pistion calipers, M tech body kit, M-sport suspension. The Brembos will resist fade when tracking the car, compared to the stock 335i brakes.

Correct styling is subjective. I remember when the e9x 3-series came out, people hated the way it looked. And a lot of those people still think the same way.
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  #142  
Old 04-30-2008, 05:06 AM
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I remember when the e9x 3-series came out, people hated the way it looked. And a lot of those people still think the same way.
Yeah, I get queasy every time someone talks about how great the E92 looks.
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  #143  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
I would say there is just as many pluses for the 135i as there is for the 335i. As far as refinement, I don't think the 335i is any nicer inside than a 135i.

Yes the 335i has standard, power seats, ambient lighting, 1.7 inches extra rear leg room.

But the 135i has standard equipment not found on the 335i, Brembo 6-pistion calipers, M tech body kit, M-sport suspension. The Brembos will resist fade when tracking the car, compared to the stock 335i brakes.

Correct styling is subjective. I remember when the e9x 3-series came out, people hated the way it looked. And a lot of those people still think the same way.
Since they share a lot of their componets, I would say the two big differences between the two are the backseat space and the styling. If you have kids over the age of five or need to haul around passengers in the back, then the 3er would be the logical choice. If not, and you don't care what others think about the design of the 1er, then get the 135. I have three kids and I will be buying the 135 in the future. I have driven both and the 1er is just more fun to drive.
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  #144  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:20 PM
2high2aim 2high2aim is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
It has a slightly higher level of standard equipment and comes with little touches like seat belt handlers, night "theater" lighting, power seats. It is also the larger and more luxurious model that has a softer ride. The looks are very subjective, your idea of what "looks better" is not shared by either the general public or most of the automotive press. By and large the consensus is that the 3 series is the prettier car.

By and large it is the same reason the 535 is more expensive than a 335. It gives up a tad of acceleration and handling for space and refinement. The 1 series is just a step lower on the space/refinement scale.
Well I read your stand point and it is agreed, I really need to go to the Dealer and go check them both out because numbers and other opinions do not really matter and I am a big guy and might need a bigger car big meaning tall not fat lol. Thus far I am looking into getting an Evo X, 135i, or the 335i
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  #145  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:25 PM
2high2aim 2high2aim is offline
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HEy "I would say there is just as many pluses for the 135i as there is for the 335i. As far as refinement, I don't think the 335i is any nicer inside than a 135i.

Yes the 335i has standard, power seats, ambient lighting, 1.7 inches extra rear leg room.

But the 135i has standard equipment not found on the 335i, Brembo 6-pistion calipers, M tech body kit, M-sport suspension. The Brembos will resist fade when tracking the car, compared to the stock 335i brakes.

Correct styling is subjective. I remember when the e9x 3-series came out, people hated the way it looked. And a lot of those people still think the same way."

I don't think 1.7 inches in the back would be much of a difference seriously 2inches is not that great of a difference. And I actually like the Sporty look of the 1 better then the more "luxurious" 335i.
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  #146  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:34 AM
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I don't think 1.7 inches in the back would be much of a difference seriously 2inches is not that great of a difference.
Some people will pay an arm and a leg for an extra 2 inches.
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  #147  
Old 05-01-2008, 06:51 PM
skylineg35 skylineg35 is offline
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I'm looking at the EVO X MR. I'm not feeling the 5 speed, wish it was six. Also the MR has around 17 upgrades or features that are worth the extra money.
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  #148  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:25 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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The MR is a fine car but if you like the 6 speed you have to get the GSR i believe.
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  #149  
Old 05-01-2008, 08:54 PM
2high2aim 2high2aim is offline
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dude the MR is the automatic manual transmission with 6 speed and the GSR is the 5 speed manual.
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  #150  
Old 05-02-2008, 08:13 AM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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opps. like the car but haven't memorized the packages yet
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