Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)

X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:34 PM
dch8008 dch8008 is offline
Registered User
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 2006 750i
Do you really save $$ on gas with diesel?

Here in CA diesel costs 20 cents more per gallon then premium unleaded. If you compare the annual fuel costs of the standard 3.0 vs. 35d are they about even since the diesel has better mpg? Or does the price difference give the 3.0 the edge?
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 02-25-2009, 03:12 PM
ncsucarjock88 ncsucarjock88 is offline
Registered User
Location: Raleigh NC
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: '04 X5 4.4i
Simple math.

15,000 miles a year.

20mpg for the 3.0 avg; 750 gallons x 2.00 = $1500

24mpg for the 3.0D - avg; 625 gallons x 2.20 = $1375

But...the Diesel also gets to 60 in 7.2 seconds, versus the gassers 8 seconds...

and has more torque, and I suspect though i've not driven one, better performance around town...

Now...let's assume you drive like me:

30k miles a year, with a lead foot. I average 14mpg out of the 4.4i I have, in town, and 19 on the highway. So, overall a 17.5 mpg. Past experience has proven that even with a smaller engine, I"ll get very similar fuel economy, because i'm giving it the boot all the time...whereas, the V8 has enough power that I'm not *always* dogging it, just most of the time.

I'd expect real world mileage of the diesel for me to be about 22mpg or so. Highway would be more, in town a little less, but 22mpg is probably a good figure.

17.5mpg (V8) at 30,000 miles/year = 1714 gallons x 2.00 = 3428 At $5/gallon its 8570 for the gasser

22mpg (diesel) at 30,000 miles/year = 1364 gallons x 2.20 = 3000. at $5.20/gallon is 7093 for the diesel

But...the new diesels qualify for a tax rebate of $1800.

So...yes...the diesel will probably save you money, especially over the long haul and if you do a lot of driving. For me, the extra mid-range torque would negate the need for a thirstier V8, with little loss of overall performance. The tax credit is nice. And when fuel goes back up, the difference will increase dramatically.

Why don't I have one? Can you see putting 30k on a new car in the first year? The depreciation would kill me. I'm looking forward to a couple years from now, when the diesels are available as CPO vehicle, and I'm ready to upgrade from my '04 4.4i.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-25-2009, 06:16 PM
AzNMpower32's Avatar
AzNMpower32 AzNMpower32 is offline
Tar Heel Faithful
Location: WNC
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,034
Send a message via AIM to AzNMpower32
Mein Auto: 2014 Mazda3 GT
You can look at the mathematics of it as demonstrated above.

There are simple advantages of diesel. You get substantially longer range between fillups. The midrange torque is unparalleled by any petrol from BMW, including the M5. It has 580Nm of torque versus the V10's 520Nm. This makes the vehicle extremely flexible in any situation. You are being "green" for the environment because it emits less CO² than any other X5 model (okay, the xDrive30d in the EU emits 3 g/km less, big deal). In Virginia, diesel is usually a modest $0,08/litre more expensive, but I have seen places where it is almost on par with premium petrol.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone gets the 3.0si model, maybe someone can explain this to me. Just my €0,02.

Last edited by AzNMpower32; 02-25-2009 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Statistic
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-25-2009, 06:53 PM
Craig B Craig B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MO
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 613
Mein Auto: 2009 X5 35d 2007 Lexus LS
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
You can look at the mathematics of it as demonstrated above.

There are simple advantages of diesel. You get substantially longer range between fillups. The midrange torque is unparalleled by any petrol from BMW, including the M5. It has 580Nm of torque versus the V10's 520Nm. This makes the vehicle extremely flexible in any situation. You are being "green" for the environment because it emits less CO² than any other X5 model (okay, the xDrive30d in the EU emits 3 g/km less, big deal).

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone gets the 3.0si model, maybe someone can explain this to me. Just my €0,02.

I waited two years for the diesel. The gas 3.0 didn't have enough power and the 4.8 uses too much fuel.

Craig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-25-2009, 07:04 PM
dcharnet's Avatar
dcharnet dcharnet is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Iowa
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 353
Mein Auto: BMW '12 X5 35i
When gas was $4 plus last summer, diesel was about $0.75 per gallon more expensive in the midwest. That relationship is wildly unpredictable. Also, there is the extra up-front cost of the diesel motor after the tax credit--what, $3,000 net? If you ignore the discounted value carry-forward (when resold, the diesel will return some if not all of the extra cost, but you are deprived of that value in the interim), it could take years/ many thousands of miles to break even. The BMW 6 is a great motor generally and moves the X5 well, at least in manual. I think there is still a market for the 6. When my 08 3.0 is ready to be traded or sold, I will look at the diesel, but it is not clear that I would get one. I would never get an 8. Further, I am not a soccer mom.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-25-2009, 11:51 PM
spyderdoc spyderdoc is offline
Registered User
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 2009 X5 XDrive 35d
Today at my local San Jose Gas station, I was elated to see that diesel was $0.05 cheaper than premium...Made my day, so I topped off my tank.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-26-2009, 02:45 PM
hazbeen hazbeen is offline
Registered User
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 15
Mein Auto: '09 X535d
SoCal diesel prices waaaay down

I saw today in LaQuinta at a Chevron on Hwy111 that diesel was $2.13 a gallon (may have been $2.18...I was driving by) which was lower than regular unleaded, unleaded plus AND premium. I think Premium was $2.39, plus was $2.29 and regular $2.19.

At least this week, everyone who runs the approximate breakeven point for making a diesel pay off will have a different outcome.

Peace
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-27-2009, 06:07 AM
mynsx mynsx is offline
Registered User
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 2006 Acura TL, 2009 X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
You can look at the mathematics of it as demonstrated above.

There are simple advantages of diesel. You get substantially longer range between fillups. The midrange torque is unparalleled by any petrol from BMW, including the M5. It has 580Nm of torque versus the V10's 520Nm. This makes the vehicle extremely flexible in any situation. You are being "green" for the environment because it emits less CO² than any other X5 model (okay, the xDrive30d in the EU emits 3 g/km less, big deal). In Virginia, diesel is usually a modest $0,08/litre more expensive, but I have seen places where it is almost on par with premium petrol.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone gets the 3.0si model, maybe someone can explain this to me. Just my €0,02.
question....why are you using EUR and litre/KM to explain cost in the US? Are you really from Virginia?

Diesel prices in the US going forward will only get higher against regular gasoline as demonstrated this past summer. If and when the economy picks up, the spread is going to get bigger. Not sure if anyone should be looking at MPG's to decide whether or not you should be getting a diesel engine. If anyone is worried about the operating cost...get a hyundai.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-27-2009, 10:09 AM
AndreyATC AndreyATC is offline
The Russian Rocket
Location: Brooklyn NY
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 224
Mein Auto: 2008 E92 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by mynsx View Post
If and when the economy picks up, the spread is going to get bigger.
What is your conclusion based of?
Are you saying when prices at the pump go up the difference between premium and diesel will increase?
1st, i doubt it'll be tha case
2nd, when prices are higher for both gas and diesel, it will still be around the same ratio or less (percent wise)
So if the difference stays, lets say $0.40, then your savings for driving diesel are much more

P.S. My guess is that we will be paying for diesel same or less than premium in the future, not more
__________________

2012 X6M AW/Silverstone II Full Leather/Driver Assistance/HUD/Active ventilated seat/Rear Climate/Cold Weather/Premium Sound/BMW Apps/Soft Close/Side-top-rear Cams/Comfort Seats/3 Seats/Keyless

Last edited by AndreyATC; 02-27-2009 at 10:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-27-2009, 11:13 AM
mynsx mynsx is offline
Registered User
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 2006 Acura TL, 2009 X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
What is your conclusion based of?
Are you saying when prices at the pump go up the difference between premium and diesel will increase?
1st, i doubt it'll be tha case
2nd, when prices are higher for both gas and diesel, it will still be around the same ratio or less (percent wise)
So if the difference stays, lets say $0.40, then your savings for driving diesel are much more

P.S. My guess is that we will be paying for diesel same or less than premium in the future, not more
My conclusion is based on what happened last year. Prices between the two will increase as demonstrated this past summer. The reason why all prices are down is due to this ****ty global economy. China was one of the biggest consumers of diesel fuel. They've cut back dramatically. If and when the global economy picks up, the spread between the two will increase again.

and the spread as price increases will not be $0.40 per gallon. If the percentage stays the same, the actual $ amount increases negating any savings.

But again, one shouldn't be considering diesel or non diesel engine based on how much savings they can get from their X5's. If so, they should be getting a Hyundai.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-27-2009, 01:12 PM
AndreyATC AndreyATC is offline
The Russian Rocket
Location: Brooklyn NY
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 224
Mein Auto: 2008 E92 335i
Here is the little curve ball on the diesel speculation
We might start getting more demand for diesel in US and the refineries will be producing more of it, hense, the price likely to be lower than 93
Regarding China:
Well, they needed a lot of diesel to power their electric generators for Olympic games
They did cut back a lot and i'm sure they wont need it as much in the near future

For your "Hyundai" comment:
It will not just save you money, it'll give you better performing car that takes less trips to gas stations while throwing less carbon into the air
Isnt it a nice feeling?

P.S. Oh, try towing with 3.0, definetely not as good as with 35D
__________________

2012 X6M AW/Silverstone II Full Leather/Driver Assistance/HUD/Active ventilated seat/Rear Climate/Cold Weather/Premium Sound/BMW Apps/Soft Close/Side-top-rear Cams/Comfort Seats/3 Seats/Keyless

Last edited by AndreyATC; 02-27-2009 at 01:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-27-2009, 01:21 PM
philippek philippek is offline
Proud S ponsor
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,668
Mein Auto: Z4 M Cpe, Miata, X6 50i
The fuel and cost savings from owning a diesel will be small. When you look at it as a percentage of acquisition cost, almost trivial. I've heard some stories that this will change as our involvement in 3 wars diminishes--not sure how much I believe that.

Diesel vehicles are about much more than cost savings. Perhaps the biggest reason we have them in North America at all is because consumers wanted a choice. Diesels will not be a profitable segment in the near term, or possibly even in the medium term.

Diesels do provide a good interim step as the world weans itself away from fossil fuels. And in a world where governments are beginning to legislate how efficient passenger vehicles have to be, diesels serve a compelling purpose for manufacturers looking to increase their corporate fuel economy averages.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-27-2009, 10:24 PM
dcharnet's Avatar
dcharnet dcharnet is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Iowa
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 353
Mein Auto: BMW '12 X5 35i
The 3.0 in sport mode tows pretty well. I tow a race car in a covered trailer to races around the Midwest, two motorcycles in the same trailer out west, and also a sailboat on a dual axle trailer. The X5 does a better job at that than my old Jeep Grand Cherokee with the small 8. The sport mode moves the engine into a higher torque range across the gear spectrum. The standard automatic shift points are set for good CAFE numbers. But, yes, of course, the diesel will do that "better." The point is that the 3.0 is pretty good.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-28-2009, 11:07 PM
jetstream23 jetstream23 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Phoenix, AZ
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,229
Mein Auto: 330i, Toyota Land Cruiser
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
The fuel and cost savings from owning a diesel will be small. When you look at it as a percentage of acquisition cost, almost trivial. I've heard some stories that this will change as our involvement in 3 wars diminishes--not sure how much I believe that.
I still think that an $1,800 tax credit and $500-1000 per year (basically a car payment) in gas savings can be significant. When you combine that with getting a vehicle almost as powerful as the 4.8 for about $5K cheaper, I think the cost-benefit equation is a no-brainer. Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
Diesel vehicles are about much more than cost savings. Perhaps the biggest reason we have them in North America at all is because consumers wanted a choice. Diesels will not be a profitable segment in the near term, or possibly even in the medium term.
What does this mean? Not profitable for dealers? No offense, but why would consumers really care about that? And why do you think they'll be less profitable than other vehicles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
Diesels do provide a good interim step as the world weans itself away from fossil fuels. And in a world where governments are beginning to legislate how efficient passenger vehicles have to be, diesels serve a compelling purpose for manufacturers looking to increase their corporate fuel economy averages.
__________________
2005 330i | ZHP, Xenons, Jet Black/Natural Brown (Black Cube)

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-02-2009, 06:27 AM
mynsx mynsx is offline
Registered User
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 2006 Acura TL, 2009 X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
Here is the little curve ball on the diesel speculation
We might start getting more demand for diesel in US and the refineries will be producing more of it, hense, the price likely to be lower than 93
Regarding China:
Well, they needed a lot of diesel to power their electric generators for Olympic games
They did cut back a lot and i'm sure they wont need it as much in the near future

For your "Hyundai" comment:
It will not just save you money, it'll give you better performing car that takes less trips to gas stations while throwing less carbon into the air
Isnt it a nice feeling?

P.S. Oh, try towing with 3.0, definetely not as good as with 35D

LOL. towing capacity and other reasons was what I was alluding to about getting a diesel engine and not mgp's and if somone was worried about the cost of gas...don't get a SUV.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-02-2009, 07:48 AM
Craig B Craig B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MO
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 613
Mein Auto: 2009 X5 35d 2007 Lexus LS
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post
I still think that an $1,800 tax credit and $500-1000 per year (basically a car payment) in gas savings can be significant. When you combine that with getting a vehicle almost as powerful as the 4.8 for about $5K cheaper, I think the cost-benefit equation is a no-brainer. Am I missing something?



What does this mean? Not profitable for dealers? No offense, but why would consumers really care about that? And why do you think they'll be less profitable than other vehicles?

The 4.8 comes with a lot of options standard that are add on's for the diesel and 3.0i.

The dealers have to send techs for training and purchase tools to work on the diesels. They also have to stock oil and other parts for the diesels as well...

Craig
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-14-2009, 10:23 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,576
Mein Auto: '06 X3
Diesel is cheaper than regular gas! For the first time in a great while I noticed on a Union Station price board they were selling diesel for less than gas. The cost was $2.31 for diesel and $2.39 for regular. If this trend continues it will make even more sense to get a diesel. Since I currently do not have a diesel but am looking at a Jetta Sportwagon (45 mpg) as a possible replacement for my X3, I have been watching the prices. Usually they have been around the cost of premium, but lately have been less and now are the lowest I have seen. This is in the Sunnyvale California area at the station on Fremont and Highway 9 (DeAnza Blvd.).
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-14-2009, 02:14 PM
Craig B Craig B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MO
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 613
Mein Auto: 2009 X5 35d 2007 Lexus LS
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Diesel is cheaper than regular gas! For the first time in a great while I noticed on a Union Station price board they were selling diesel for less than gas. The cost was $2.31 for diesel and $2.39 for regular. If this trend continues it will make even more sense to get a diesel. Since I currently do not have a diesel but am looking at a Jetta Sportwagon (45 mpg) as a possible replacement for my X3, I have been watching the prices. Usually they have been around the cost of premium, but lately have been less and now are the lowest I have seen. This is in the Sunnyvale California area at the station on Fremont and Highway 9 (DeAnza Blvd.).

Diesel here is the same price as regular unleaded 1.899

Craig
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-15-2009, 06:02 PM
nekountze nekountze is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Omaha, NE USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 153
Mein Auto: 2009 X5 3.5d
Smile Lowest diesel price here in Omaha is now $1.85

Getting 20.5 mpg in town, 26 mpg highway driving my X5d. I previously owned a 2001 X5 3.0i and the power was much less - terrible acceleration compared to the diesel. There is no comparison of the 6 gas vs 6 diesel IMHO. I drove the X5 V8 at the BMW Performance center in SC and I must say the diesel is every bit if not more powerful.

I would assume towing would be a hassle and with constant downshifts on hills with the 3.0i, but effortless with the 3.0d.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-01-2009, 09:45 PM
lp2009 lp2009 is offline
Registered User
Location: ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18
Mein Auto: 2008 535xi
Do you get the 1800 tax break if you lease the diesel? (does the dealer)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-01-2009, 10:28 PM
cablue's Avatar
cablue cablue is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sierra foothills, California
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 206
Mein Auto: '10 X5 diesel
Diesel in my area, Sierra foothills, near Sacramento is .20/gal. less than premium. Diesel is the only way I'd get an X5. I'm looking at maybe ordering one within a week or so. Heard conflicting info on whether I can get the $4500 discount if getting car after 8/31 by ordering. Any input? Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:47 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10,148
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by cablue View Post
Diesel in my area, Sierra foothills, near Sacramento is .20/gal. less than premium. Diesel is the only way I'd get an X5. I'm looking at maybe ordering one within a week or so. Heard conflicting info on whether I can get the $4500 discount if getting car after 8/31 by ordering. Any input? Thanks!

Funny, that's how I describe my location too.

Have you ordered yet? There really isn't much time between 8/31 and the 2010 arrivals. Indeed, I had heard that 'early to mid August' is when they start 2010 orders!

Mine is inbound, should arrive within a week or two. Initially the dealer was doubtful it would make the 8/31 cutoff. They were able to convert one of their 'dealer stock' orders to mine. It was ordered on July 8, and was out of manufacturing on 7/23!!!

Initially, my plan was to just see what transpired- if it missed the 8/31 day, and they wanted $4500, I would have said "Oh? Really? I've decided I want a 2010, lets order THAT instead!" No need for that now....

I've got to think that BMW would be insane to effectively raise the prices on the last month of the 2009 MY by $4500. One might envision even more trunk money. The other possibility is killer lease terms to let dealers move this last bunch...

If you want to compare notes on dealers, PM me we can chat...

GL

A

PS Fuel cost is really low on my list- I am more 'irritated' by low mileage,plus the torque on the diesel is amazing- wonderful driveability.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:53 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10,148
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
I forgot to add... if they can convert one of their next cars to your specs, they can make it a Spartanburg PCD delivery. It would likely be ready Sept 6-9. BUT- you actually "buy" the car a week earlier at the dealer in CA. So it would technically be sold prior to 8/31. That was my other back up....



A
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-02-2009, 04:51 AM
ct545i ct545i is offline
Registered User
Location: CT, USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2010 P C4S, 2009 X5 35d
I'm probably one of very few, if not the only one, to like the BMW diesel engine enough to own both x5 35d and 335d. I've had the 335d since early March (fabulous vehicle) and I just traded my wife's 07 Volvo XC90 3.2 for a demo X5 35d with only 26 miles. I got a very fair value for the XC90 and the X5 for $7k under invoice (yes, $7k under invoice! - only because the car was officially put in service back in Feb. when there was a special demo program giving $2.5k to dealer) - I could not resist that. Have I mentioned that I love the BMW bi-turbo diesel engine?...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-02-2009, 08:34 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,576
Mein Auto: '06 X3
Diesel is still running cheaper than regular in the South Bay Area near San Jose. You have to watch your prices though, I saw a shell station with prices HIGHER than premium while a Chevron station a block away had the price lower than regular.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms