Was gona ask this on a benz forum, was scared they'd crucify me

Risking a biased response here but here goes anyway
I'm buying a new car soon (either mercedes or bmw) and I've been looking into the stats of mercedes C-Class, E-Class & BMW 3,5 Series Engines
Noteably I've been comparing the BMW 3 Series (2003+) & Mercedes C Class (2003+)

First I want to ask, what are your opinions on Mercedes C/CLK / BMW 3 Engines from 2003 models onwards. Ie BMW e46 platform in the coupes, and mercedes new 2007+ C Class
ie. how do they compare in terms of performance / reliability in your own opinions

Secondly I want to share my findings and get your thoughts and feedback
The following stats are from autoevolution.com

2003-2006 (E46) BMW 330CI (Coupe)
Displacement: 2979 cm3
Power KW(HP): 170(231)
CO² Emissions: 218 g/km
Fuel Consumption: 25.8 mpg (9.1 L/100Km)

2002-2006 (C209) Mercedes CLK320 (Coupe)
Displacement: 3199 cm3
Power KW(HP): 160(218)
CO² Emissions: 250 g/km
Combined: 32.2 mpg (7.3 L/100Km)

Now this is where it get's weird (in my opinion)

2005-Present (C209) Mercedes CLK280 (Coupe)
Displacement: 2996 cm3
Power KW(HP): 172(231)
CO² Emissions: 220 g/km
Combined: 24.5 mpg (9.6 L/100Km)

2006-Present (E92) BMW 330i (Coupe)
Displacement: 2996 cm3
Power KW(HP): 200(272)
CO² Emissions: 218 g/km
Fuel Consumption: 25.8 mpg (9.1 L/100Km)

My observations
* It appears the older 2002-2006 3.2L (C320) Mercedes Engine was more fuel efficient than the 2006+ 3L Engine (C280) - weird
* The BMW engines seem to have had massive improvements in both fuel efficiency, power output, and CO2 emissions, especially in comparison to the Mercedes

Do you think it's fair to say that BMW appear to be making better engines than Mercedes?
Is there anything I've missed?

Any feedback appreciated

Originally Posted by RCK

This is a write up I did a few months ago I hope this will help.






so I went and test drove new cars last week. first i went to mercedes just to go see what those people are talking about. most mercedes owners think there cars a better than BMW this was not the case. first i test drove a new 2008 c240. don't really want to talk about the car because it was such a piece i took it right back. so the next car i drove was the famous SLK AMG 55. This car looked sick with it 400 + horsepower V8. I will tell you the truth I was excited to drive it.
So I took it out. I left the dealer in normal automatic sport mode. i drove it like this till i got used to driving it. after a little bit i switch it to the paddle shifter. let me tell you what a joke those things were worthless. shift took about 3second after pushing the buttons. i couldn't belive that a car that cost this much would lage so bad.
Next on the list was to go to BMW. I pulled in and saw a bunch of 3series sedans. I took out the new 335 twin turbo six sedan. the car was ok the motor was nice. the car did sound awsome when I down shifted when it bipped the throttle. Next on the list was a 2002 M built 540. I know these cars really well becuase my girl has a 530. so i've allway loved how they ride. took out brought it right back. for some reason the car has zero power. so finally I got to the 135i auto with sort paddles. god this car was off the hook. this was the first car I had driving which actually handled and had the same amount of power as my E36 M3. shifting the car was like playing a video game fast and instant.
I brought the car back 20minutes later with a big smile on my face. then I heard how much they were asking for the car 49,000$ wow that's alot. so Before I left I had to drive the 6speed manual. I took the car out and right away I could feel that i had hella controll of it compared to the paddle shifters.
long story shory 2009 135i twin turbo 6 is one sick car. if you have a chance to drive one do it it a blast

Originally Posted by fatjoez

Do you think it's fair to say that BMW appear to be making better engines than Mercedes?
Is there anything I've missed?

Any feedback appreciated

Define "better".

The reliablity issue is open and shut, at least according to Consumer Reports. Their survey data has the 3-series rated "better than average" and the C-Class (and most M-B's) as "cars to avoid."

One thing to keep in mind with the E46, is that the power windows motors have a nasty tendency of dying.

Originally Posted by fatjoez

2002-2006 (C209) Mercedes CLK320 (Coupe)
Displacement: 3199 cm3
Power KW(HP): 160(218)
CO² Emissions: 250 g/km
Combined: 32.2 mpg (7.3 L/100Km)

I think this figure is actually wrong. If i remember it right, CO2 emission has a direct relationship with gas mileage. So, with more CO2 emission than 06+ 3 series, CLK320 cannot have better mileage, because it burns more gas to generate more CO2, meaning less miles per gallon.

Anyhow, BMW engines are more powerful and more efficient.

Straight sixes reign supreme hands down!! No doubt about it!! Just posted today, a guy in the E46 forum with a '99 323 owned since new with over 286,000 miles with normal maintenance.

Not sure which motors are technically better, but I definitely prefer BMW motors.

My brother owned an 02 E320, and my sister owned an 05 E500 and although for the most part they were good cars, they were very boring to drive and the motors were no where near as smooth or silky as BMW motors.

Originally Posted by fatjoez

Risking a biased response here but here goes anyway
I'm buying a new car soon (either mercedes or bmw)

Any feedback appreciated

Get the BMW.

Recent MB reliability has been terrible.

Originally Posted by e36m34life

Not sure which motors are technically better, but I definitely prefer BMW motors.

My brother owned an 02 E320, and my sister owned an 05 E500 and although for the most part they were good cars, they were very boring to drive and the motors were no where near as smooth or silky as BMW motors.

The straight six design is the best motor technically. It is inherently a perfectly balanced design.

They both make great engines - it just depends on what you're looking for. I prefer the torque of my AMG 6.2l to the Hi-revving 4.0l in the M3.

As far as quality of the cars goes, yeah it IS "open and shut." BMW has been slipping, going below average in JD Power's 2008 Initial Quality study. MB has learned from its mistakes and is now near the top.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008063

And in the April Consumer Reports Car Issue ranking of long term reliability (as opposed to initial quality - problems within the first 90 days of ownership) BMW ranks just a hair below average and Merc ranks about 30% below average. Consumer Reports gives BMW and Merc an overall score of 72 on performance in their tests, but recommends 83% of the cars BMW makes and only 67% of those Merc makes due to sub-par reliability. They rate BMW reliability overall as average and Merc as below average.

fatjoez

Not sure on what evidence you base your conclusions about technical improvement. I'm not trying to say BMW or Mercedes is better but looking at your figures, BMW has improved power with no changes to CO2 or MPG. Merc improved both power and CO2 but at the cost of MPG.

My anecdotal evidence suggest Merc makes more robust engines. In 2nd-hand ads here in Germany the high-milers are always C- or E-class Merc diesels (300-400K Kms regularly seen).

I own 2 older BMWs and have had Merc C and Es in the past. They're just different cars. My personal experience has been good with diesel engines from both manufacturers and mixed with petrol (gas) engines.

Where Merc has irritated me in the past is with servicing. Both parts costs and the service department mentaility have not been as good as BMW.

I'd say take both cars out for test drives and see which feels best to you.

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

As far as quality of the cars goes, yeah it IS "open and shut." BMW has been slipping, going below average in JD Power's 2008 Initial Quality study.

No question that MB has show improvement in the quality of cars coming off the line.

But the IQS numbers are only for the first 90 days. I'd be much more concerned about the 2 year reliablity and on those MB is still not doing well.


On the other hand MINI shouldn't be at down at the bottom of the IQS chart. BMW needs to have a look at what is going on at Plant Oxford.

once bmw turbocharges the M classes then i believe theyll have the superior engines...if they dont already

Originally Posted by BadgelessM3

This is a write up I did a few months ago I hope this will help.






so I went and test drove new cars last week. first i went to mercedes just to go see what those people are talking about. most mercedes owners think there cars a better than BMW this was not the case. first i test drove a new 2008 c240. don't really want to talk about the car because it was such a piece i took it right back. so the next car i drove was the famous SLK AMG 55. This car looked sick with it 400 + horsepower V8. I will tell you the truth I was excited to drive it.
So I took it out. I left the dealer in normal automatic sport mode. i drove it like this till i got used to driving it. after a little bit i switch it to the paddle shifter. let me tell you what a joke those things were worthless. shift took about 3second after pushing the buttons. i couldn't belive that a car that cost this much would lage so bad.
Next on the list was to go to BMW. I pulled in and saw a bunch of 3series sedans. I took out the new 335 twin turbo six sedan. the car was ok the motor was nice. the car did sound awsome when I down shifted when it bipped the throttle. Next on the list was a 2002 M built 540. I know these cars really well becuase my girl has a 530. so i've allway loved how they ride. took out brought it right back. for some reason the car has zero power. so finally I got to the 135i auto with sort paddles. god this car was off the hook. this was the first car I had driving which actually handled and had the same amount of power as my E36 M3. shifting the car was like playing a video game fast and instant.
I brought the car back 20minutes later with a big smile on my face. then I heard how much they were asking for the car 49,000$ wow that's alot. so Before I left I had to drive the 6speed manual. I took the car out and right away I could feel that i had hella controll of it compared to the paddle shifters.
long story shory 2009 135i twin turbo 6 is one sick car. if you have a chance to drive one do it it a blast

I had an identical day as you not to long ago. The new C series is a good looking car but I felt like I was in a accord.

I love the new 135 Manual, just can't justify the money in this economy. No raises at my office and the perception would be bad if I froze money but drove up in a new car.

That's why I bought another E36 M3. I couldn't see spending 45,000$ on a car when I got my M3 for 5500$