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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bcube View Post
BLT,

Are you out of time on your maintenance plan? Sounds like your pads/sensor were replaced under warranty to fix the squealing, whereas the rotors couldn't be replace under warranty cause they were still within spec. And you are 700 miles too soon per the computer to have maintenance plan cover them.
The plan runs out 6/10/2009. I plan on making another appointment very shortly before the deadline.
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:22 AM
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Replacing the rotors would have taken 5 more minutes per corner for them. Now you'll have to schedule an appointment, get a loaner car, have your car tied up all day, all because of $150 worth of parts?

What a waste of your time. Why do owners even need to know about this stuff? .4mm difference, really? Sheesh!

The good thing is you're done with them after this. DIY FTW!
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jvr826 View Post
Replacing the rotors would have taken 5 more minutes per corner for them. Now you'll have to schedule an appointment, get a loaner car, have your car tied up all day, all because of $150 worth of parts?

What a waste of your time. Why do owners even need to know about this stuff? .4mm difference, really? Sheesh!

The good thing is you're done with them after this. DIY FTW!
It will end up costing them more time and money than it will cost me. It's just a dumb business decision; they were even trying to sell me the extended maintenance plan.
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:12 AM
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It will end up costing them more time and money than it will cost me. It's just a dumb business decision; they were even trying to sell me the extended maintenance plan.
Stevens Creek?
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  #30  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:13 AM
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Stevens Creek?
BMW of Mountain View.
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  #31  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:14 AM
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BMW of Mountain View.
Go to Stevens Creek and tell the SA that you'd like Rich V to work on your car.
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  #32  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Replacing the rotors would have taken 5 more minutes per corner for them. Now you'll have to schedule an appointment, get a loaner car, have your car tied up all day, all because of $150 worth of parts? What a waste of your time. Why do owners even need to know about this stuff? .4mm difference, really? Sheesh!
Quote:
It will end up costing them more time and money than it will cost me. It's just a dumb business decision; they were even trying to sell me the extended maintenance plan

But it is time and money that will be reimbursed by BMW. Brake rotors cost a lot more than $150.

Why people expect business's to do supply free parts and services unconditionally to their customers is beyond me.

I had a similar situation happen to me. And since I have a brain, and my time is very important, I then took control of my shop visits. For example, if the computer was showing a brake service coming up and behind that a oil change a few hundred more miles later, I waited until the oil service was due to complete both services at the same visit instead of two separate visits in a week
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Last edited by Bcube; 05-20-2009 at 08:18 AM.
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  #33  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:22 AM
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It will end up costing them more time and money than it will cost me. It's just a dumb business decision; they were even trying to sell me the extended maintenance plan.
why would it end up costing them more? you have 25% rotor remaining and 1 more month left in your service agreement.
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  #34  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:33 AM
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why would it end up costing them more? you have 25% rotor remaining and 1 more month left in your service agreement.
You are making an assumption that I have 25% of the rotor life left. I will take of the wheels this weekend and mic the rotors myself. It would not surprise me if I am already below spec, we will see.

In any event we will be going to Roseville, Placerville and Tahoe before our warrantee expires, I am sure the rotors will be below spec after that trip.
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  #35  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:35 AM
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In any event we will be going to Roseville, Placerville and Tahoe before our warrantee expires, I am sure the rotors will be below spec after that trip.
Put the car in neutral at the summits - don't want any of that pesky engine braking!
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  #36  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:47 AM
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You are making an assumption that I have 25% of the rotor life left. I will take of the wheels this weekend and mic the rotors myself. It would not surprise me if I am already below spec, we will see.

In any event we will be going to Roseville, Placerville and Tahoe before our warrantee expires, I am sure the rotors will be below spec after that trip.
24mm is most likely the original/new thickness of the rotors
they quoted you 22.4mm as the minimum thickness which make sense because 1.6mm so far in according to my info and links that i've seen quote that is the amount of wear bmw rotors can take. 24mm-22.4mm = 1.6mm

you are at 22.8 .... 24mm-22.8=1.2mm

1.2/1.6= 75% ... so you are at 25% remaining.
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  #37  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:01 AM
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Guys, the measurment is the measurment. BMW cracked down on dealers for rotor replacement. if the rotor is in spec (unless you have a pulsation) it stays on the car period and they do not get paid to cut them either. The BMW reps are actually checking the rotors for thickness. If they are in spec, the dealer does not get paid so do not count on rotor swaps everytime you need pads.
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  #38  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:05 AM
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I've got the info BLT, sorry to be delayed getting back to you. Had a 430 Scuderia in to have the wheels rebalanced and nobody was going to touch this car but me...
I am going to assume your 330I is an '06 not '05, and it's NOT a CI. Makes a difference. My book says that the discard spec, which is the absolute minimum BMW allows at any point is 22.4! If your rotors are at 22.8 then technically the dealership is right, you are in legal spec (and there is not enough stock to cut the rotors).
Technically is one thing, what they should have done is another. You only have .008" (8 mils) per side of rotor left. That is not going to last long. How soon you have unsafe rotors is questionable. BUT, they will absolutely not last anywhere near as long as your new pads and not installing new rotors in my professional opinion was the wrong thing to do.
I would ask the dealership to put thier position IN WRITING. Then I would ask to speak to the zone manager. We are talking about brakes here, not floor mats.
In case you're interested the Ferrari is new. The owner had new Perelli P Zero Corsa (60 AA A) tires installed and whoever did the job used grey stick on weights. They were properly dynamically balanced but the weights looked like ugly warts on the wheels! Unbelievable! We couldn't hide the weights behind the spokes because the spokes are too thin.
We painted weights to match his goldish wheels and installed them a little further in towards the centerline. Ah, much better! It was the most I'd ever charged for a wheel balancing but the owner didn't even blink. The car was $266,800 optioned out (in NH the price is on the registration for excise tax purposes) which included his $5300 Ferrrari fitted luggage. We laughed about this, he doesn't take much luggage to the race track.
By the way, for $266,800 you DON'T get floor mats!

Last edited by DSXMachina; 05-20-2009 at 10:26 AM.
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  #39  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:12 AM
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BMWNA has rules about what they will pay for and when. That's the issue here.
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  #40  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:18 AM
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BMWNA has rules about what they will pay for and when. That's the issue here.
There are at least 2 issues here.
1) .4mm is a very small measurement 0.0157" as I have posted it is the width of a single edge razor blade on each side of the rotor.
2) Why didn't the SA give me a call and propose I pay for the rotors (parts) and since the brakes were already apart I wouldn't have to pay any additional labor fees?
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  #41  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:43 AM
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There are at least 2 issues here.
1) .4mm is a very small measurement 0.0157" as I have posted it is the width of a single edge razor blade on each side of the rotor.
2) Why didn't the SA give me a call and propose I pay for the rotors (parts) and since the brakes were already apart I wouldn't have to pay any additional labor fees?
2) That is a legitimate concern, with your rotors that close to mininum - there should have been a discussion. Have the discussion now - if the computer countdown says ~700 miles till the brake service, you should be able to get the rotors replaced before you run out of time.
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  #42  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:54 AM
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if the rotors were out of your pocket ,and they tried to sell them to you when they were still over spec, you'd also get mad.
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  #43  
Old 05-20-2009, 11:01 AM
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if the rotors were out of your pocket ,and they tried to sell them to you when they were still over spec, you'd also get mad.
If I was given the chance to have the rotors replaced for just the cost of the parts, I would have paid that and been happy. That would have been a win/win situation.
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  #44  
Old 05-20-2009, 11:09 AM
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i would say that they should have called to ask if you wanted to foot the diff it cost for the part and additional labour charges

(cost of 4 rotors and pads + labour) - (cost of pads only + labour) = BLT's bill

but they are not obligated to do it on BMW's tab. and if you wanted them check with you on brake rotor options, you could have told them in advance. really easy to check how much rotor you have left by just checking the lip thickness on the edge of the rotor. the part that doesn't touch the pads. i check that every now and then and before taking my car in for brake service.
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Last edited by HW; 05-20-2009 at 11:19 AM.
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  #45  
Old 05-20-2009, 02:10 PM
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DSXMachina, what were you able to find out?
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  #46  
Old 05-20-2009, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jvr826 View Post
Replacing the rotors would have taken 5 more minutes per corner for them. Now you'll have to schedule an appointment, get a loaner car, have your car tied up all day, all because of $150 worth of parts?

What a waste of your time. Why do owners even need to know about this stuff? .4mm difference, really? Sheesh!

The good thing is you're done with them after this. DIY FTW!
From your perspective, yes it sounds stupid. But from the dealership's perspective, if the rotors are measured to be in spec they won't be able to get BMW NA to reimburse them for the cost of the rotors. So, for $150 worth of parts, yeah. Especially if those parts are coming out of the dealership's pocket.

I mean, $150 may not be that much to some people, but for a dealership it is the difference between hiring two and a half porters for a whole day. Think about that.
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  #47  
Old 05-20-2009, 05:17 PM
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If I was given the chance to have the rotors replaced for just the cost of the parts, I would have paid that and been happy. That would have been a win/win situation.
From YOUR perspective, yes. However, a dealership that operates like that will not survive for long. I mean, they're suppose to hold up work, keep your car on the lift while the SA calls you to tell you that your rotors are very near the minimum spec, while you decide on whether or not to change out the rotor on your dime, on the off-chance that he gets you on the phone on the very first try and you decide on the spot?

Sure, you probably would have been happy. Not the dealership I can guarantee you that. The more cars they process through the service bay the more money they make, and on the off-chance that someone like you would pay for the rotors...that's a big gamble to make. If I was running the dealership I wouldn't do that.
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  #48  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:07 PM
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DSXMachina, what were you able to find out?
Hey BLT. Scroll UP to post 38 at 1 p.m. this afternoon. You missed it.
I disagree with Hack. That's not the way to run a business and that is why I get paid by customers who are told warrantee work would be done at no cost at the dealership. They dislike the dealer so much that they would rather pay me than take the car back and get it done for free. It is good for me that dealerships do treat people the way Hack suggests.
You should have been called and given the option as to what would you would like to do. End of discussion.
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  #49  
Old 05-21-2009, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
I've got the info BLT, sorry to be delayed getting back to you. Had a 430 Scuderia in to have the wheels rebalanced and nobody was going to touch this car but me...
I am going to assume your 330I is an '06 not '05, and it's NOT a CI. Makes a difference. My book says that the discard spec, which is the absolute minimum BMW allows at any point is 22.4! If your rotors are at 22.8 then technically the dealership is right, you are in legal spec (and there is not enough stock to cut the rotors).
Technically is one thing, what they should have done is another. You only have .008" (8 mils) per side of rotor left. That is not going to last long. How soon you have unsafe rotors is questionable. BUT, they will absolutely not last anywhere near as long as your new pads and not installing new rotors in my professional opinion was the wrong thing to do.
I would ask the dealership to put thier position IN WRITING. Then I would ask to speak to the zone manager. We are talking about brakes here, not floor mats.
Thank you so much for your input, this is exactly what I thought. I plan on talking to the SA this afternoon and see if we can reach some sort of common ground.

The way I understand it is that brake rotors and pads are the friction pieces of the braking system. Brakes work by converting kinetic energy into thermal energy. If the rotor is too thin it overheats during extended hard braking and transfers that heat through the pads into the calipers boiling the brake fluid at that causes brake fade. I now have pads that can last another 40K miles working on rotors that may only last 2 or 3 thousand more miles.

What I don't know is if the indicator light will show when the rotors are below spec now that the pads and sensors have been replaced. One more thing, I have always been told that you can not re-use the pads on new rotors. The theory is they will transfer impurities and grit from the old rotor to the new ones and cause grooving and premature ware.

Regarding the Ferrari we were admiring my wives ex CEO brand new 430 Scuderia at Sears Point raceway last spring during an open trace event only to see him ball it up in trun 1 half way into his first session, it damn near made me cry. They are awesome machines.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:23 AM
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Thank you so much for your input, this is exactly what I thought. I plan on talking to the SA this afternoon and see if we can reach some sort of common ground.

The way I understand it is that brake rotors and pads are the friction pieces of the braking system. Brakes work by converting kinetic energy into thermal energy. If the rotor is too thin it overheats during extended hard braking and transfers that heat through the pads into the calipers boiling the brake fluid at that causes brake fade. I now have pads that can last another 40K miles working on rotors that may only last 2 or 3 thousand more miles.

What I don't know is if the indicator light will show when the rotors are below spec now that the pads and sensors have been replaced. One more thing, I have always been told that you can not re-use the pads on new rotors. The theory is they will transfer impurities and grit from the old rotor to the new ones and cause grooving and premature ware.

Regarding the Ferrari we were admiring my wives ex CEO brand new 430 Scuderia at Sears Point raceway last spring during an open trace event only to see him ball it up in trun 1 half way into his first session, it damn near made me cry. They are awesome machines.
too thin is when it gets below 22.4mm. that is the minimum. and besides, any prudent driver/owner will regularly visually check the safety components of their cars. how hard is that. just do a little research.
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