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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 07-06-2009, 01:41 PM
potnich potnich is offline
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According to Mr. William Stewart of National Customer Relations & Services for BMWNA: 'This issue, as previously explained, was not due to a defect in material or workmanship.' Apparently, when BMW designs and installs an substandard drain for a panoramic sunroof that can cause thousands of dollars of damage and could result in system failures (lights, windshield wipers, radios, etc. ) that might result in bodily injury or death, they are not to be held responsible or accountable. Moreover, they do not advise how to prevent the problem in their manual nor do they advise their highly trained service personnel that this preventable problem should be part routine maintenance when service is rendered. I find this explanation by Mr. Stewart to be ludicrous and highly unacceptable. If you've had this problem, please consider contacting Mr. Stewart and let him know about your level of dissatisfaction.
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  #77  
Old 07-06-2009, 01:52 PM
o6525xia o6525xia is offline
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Hi, the problem with the sunroof was a TSB, and they would have to install a new bracket. Mine had the problem of it slamming when closing, and the dealership installed a new bracket. Like all TSB's and recalls, it was free for them to do it. I have a sedan, but it works for the wagen or wagon as well. Hope this helps both you and your friend! Thanks!
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  #78  
Old 07-06-2009, 02:51 PM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o6525xia View Post
Hi, the problem with the sunroof was a TSB, and they would have to install a new bracket. Mine had the problem of it slamming when closing, and the dealership installed a new bracket. Like all TSB's and recalls, it was free for them to do it. I have a sedan, but it works for the wagen or wagon as well. Hope this helps both you and your friend! Thanks!
The 08s have the same issue, the revised design has not fully rectified the issue.

It is a design problem, notice their careful wording doesn't address that.
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  #79  
Old 07-06-2009, 03:21 PM
potnich potnich is offline
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The 1st time we experienced electrical failure, the service manager said it was due to an acorn that plugged the drain. There was no warning that this problem needed to be monitored (after $1500 in repairs); according to the service person it was a freak occurrence. In the interim, the car had been in for routine maintenance but apparently no attention was given to the past problem & its potential reoccurrence. About 18 mo later, the same problem occurred ( lights, windshield wipers, windows inoperable, etc.). This time the cost to repair was $4000, but the cause was alleged to be 'environmental debris'. The replacement (Sirius) radio will not be available until Oct. This automobile was under extended warranty, however, that warranty has no value whatsoever in this 'environmental' situation. This is a 'cop out' by BMWNA. BMWNA willingly accepts money from the insurance company & the customer for repairs while the 'real' problem is not remediated. All affected BMW owners should call/write Mr. William Stewart and complain bitterly about the substandard drainage system for the panoramic sunroof & how this problem is being 'swept under the rug' by BMWNA. Eventually someone will get injured (or a life will be lost) by this lack of accountability and failure to correct the problem.
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  #80  
Old 07-06-2009, 03:31 PM
bbal bbal is offline
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Bill Stewart helped me with the buy back process for my wagon and replaced it with a 09 wagon. He was great to work with. I would be happy to mail him a letter regarding this issue.
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Last edited by bbal; 07-06-2009 at 06:11 PM.
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  #81  
Old 07-06-2009, 03:34 PM
jglos jglos is online now
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I am on my 3rd BMW and 12 years worth of service time. No Sunroof problems yet. It appears the problem is related to the panoramic sun roofs on X3/X5 and Sport wagons. Prior to the BMW's I owned a Mitsubishi Galant before the BMWs and it had electrical problem every 9 -10 months, Bad power windows , sunroof, Engine Management Computer, etc.

-Jglos
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2008- 650i, black with tan interior. Sport package, premium pgk, cold pkg, pdc, premium sound. -NJ
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  #82  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:36 PM
potnich potnich is offline
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Buy Back Possibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbal View Post
Bill Stewart helped me with the buy back process for my wagon and replaced it with a 09 wagon. He was great to work with. I would be happy to mail him a letter regarding this issue.
I suggested that to Mr. Stewart in my letter & there was no indication he was inclined to help with a buy back. I would be satisfied with the car I've got if it could be corrected. What kind of value did Mr. Stewart place on the vehicle you wanted to replace: trade-in, private seller or retail value? I think that, under the circumstances, buy back is a fair solution, as long as the problem is corrected in the '09 model.
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  #83  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:28 PM
bbal bbal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potnich View Post
I suggested that to Mr. Stewart in my letter & there was no indication he was inclined to help with a buy back. I would be satisfied with the car I've got if it could be corrected. What kind of value did Mr. Stewart place on the vehicle you wanted to replace: trade-in, private seller or retail value? I think that, under the circumstances, buy back is a fair solution, as long as the problem is corrected in the '09 model.
My buy back was fairly straight forward as it only had 5K miles on it. I believe the 2009s have the same issue with the panoramic leak potential. As I stated earlier, when I trickled water into the sunroof track on the right side, it ended up on the floor of the hatch. This is a design flaw, no matter what anyone says.
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  #84  
Old 07-06-2009, 08:49 PM
potnich potnich is offline
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It seems that BMWNA seems to believe they are above any liability when it comes to customer safety and convenience. The only thing saving them from more serious consequences is the warning that appears on the console alerting the driver of the danger of continued operation. I'm curious how you discovered this problem so quickly? Is there no obligation of BMW to inform the consumer of this potential problem and the related TSB?
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  #85  
Old 07-12-2009, 07:26 AM
potnich potnich is offline
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Here's some new info from a BMW service manager who is located in the SE: If you're having problems with the panoramic sunroof leaking & causing electrical problems, have your service manager solicit an inspection of your wagon's sunroof by the regional BMW engineer. The BMW engineers make periodic visits to the dealer's in their area to handle problems like this one where there is a design flaw (or some other undiagnosed problem). I am in the process of getting an appointment set-up for a wagon that has had a recurrence of this drainage problem. I'm hoping that the engineer can solve the problem otherwise I'll get rid of the problem by getting rid of an otherwise good automobile. Good luck!!!!
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  #86  
Old 07-12-2009, 08:36 AM
bbal bbal is offline
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I wrote a letter to Mr. William Stewart at BMWNA...too long to post here. I'll update if I get a reply.
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  #87  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:09 AM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbal View Post
This is a design flaw, no matter what anyone says.
Definitely.
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  #88  
Old 07-14-2009, 06:20 AM
bbal bbal is offline
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Mr. Stewart called to tell me he had forwarded my letter to engineering and will get back to me.
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  #89  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:38 AM
obi.wan obi.wan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbal View Post
Mr. Stewart called to tell me he had forwarded my letter to engineering and will get back to me.
maybe we can use your letter as a form letter?
do you mind sending me what you have and I will send it in as well or atleast the address to send to, sorry being lazy
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  #90  
Old 07-14-2009, 09:14 AM
bbal bbal is offline
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Although BMW is a large company, my impression from working with BMWNA is that they work through problems on a case by case basis. I will keep you updated as to how this goes. Once we receive a response from engineering, we can go from there. I believe duplicate letters will be treated as such, and that our best course may be to create a group response with names attached. If you pm me your address I'll send you a copy of it...I'm terrible at scanning, etc.
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  #91  
Old 07-19-2009, 06:25 PM
bbal bbal is offline
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Update: Mr. Stewart replied that engineering wants to see what I'm talking about when I say that water trickled into the rear of the sunroof track ends up inside the hatch. I made a video clip and mailed it to him demonstrating this happening. If you want to see it happen, just pour a few ounces of water onto the rear of the track and watch it come out in the hatch: it drips out onto the tonneau track and down to the floor of the hatch from there (at least in my car).
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  #92  
Old 07-19-2009, 09:32 PM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbal View Post
Update: Mr. Stewart replied that engineering wants to see what I'm talking about when I say that water trickled into the rear of the sunroof track ends up inside the hatch. I made a video clip and mailed it to him demonstrating this happening. If you want to see it happen, just pour a few ounces of water onto the rear of the track and watch it come out in the hatch: it drips out onto the tonneau track and down to the floor of the hatch from there (at least in my car).
I'm sure they are already aware of it. At the very least, they paid my "good will" electronics repair.
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  #93  
Old 07-23-2009, 06:04 AM
bbal bbal is offline
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The reply I received was that water getting into the outside track is carried via the drains. Water on the inside track does not, and as demonstrated, goes into the hatch. I believe that when the rear drains clog, the water makes it to the inside track and therefore into the hatch. I was told that any concerns should be addressed through my dealership. In other words, same info we've all been hearing. I still believe that any damage due to water should be covered under warranty. Especially since the manual makes no reference to cleaning the drains and the rear ones cannot be cleaned without disassembly.
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  #94  
Old 07-23-2009, 09:36 AM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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Not a very satisfactory response. Did they say exactly what the dealership would do and who would pay?
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  #95  
Old 07-23-2009, 09:41 AM
bbal bbal is offline
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Agreed...very unsatisfactory. No other answers. Very frustrating. I'm just planning on taking meticulous care of the sunroof to keep it clean. I will test the drains every now and then as well.
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  #96  
Old 07-23-2009, 02:57 PM
obi.wan obi.wan is offline
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Now that is not a response I was hoping to see.

As I mentioned my thoughts on another thread, no touring for 2010 apparently.

Do I hang on to this, order a new one before they run out or just leave.

Sounds as if they are sticking to coughing up the repair on a case by case basis

This is certainly something I dont look forward to, the problem and the whole idea of "negotiating"
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  #97  
Old 07-24-2009, 08:52 AM
potnich potnich is offline
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I'm currently waiting for an appointment with the BMW engineer who takes care of problems for certain dealerships in N GA. After I get the appointment, the engineer will assess the problem & make a recommendation. If those who have had the problem will try the same approach, maybe the engineers will make a decision (collectively) about the magnitude of the problem with panoramic sunroof leaks.
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  #98  
Old 07-25-2009, 02:24 PM
KarenS KarenS is offline
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My husband and i have been driving BMW's for over 20 years - we currently have a WAGON - 2006 with the panoramic roof - it has had electrical failure on a requla basis. The dealership has acted as if they had never heard of the problem - keeping the car inside when i brought it in for service. I was driving the car during a rain storm when the lights, the windshield wipers, the radio, the odometer, the windows, the locks and the car itself advised that continued operation was not safe - this is a very serious issue.
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  #99  
Old 07-25-2009, 03:00 PM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obi.wan View Post
Sounds as if they are sticking to coughing up the repair on a case by case basis

This is certainly something I dont look forward to, the problem and the whole idea of "negotiating"
Well it is extra ownership stress that we all don't need. Claiming it is due to "external factors" is ridiculous. The car should be able to withstand a reasonable amount of rain, dust, tree crud, whatever to some degree. Obviously I don't expect the car to work underwater. But claiming that "the trees did it" is just lame. We've had the car less than 2 years and I've had cars sitting under trees for years without an issue of sunroof leaking, providing you keep them washed.

I think the biggest issue is that we (the owners) have no way of easily telling if a) drains are blocked and b) leaking water in the electronics bay until you get a failure message.

You can't even check in there because you have to remove the battery/cover etc, dealer wasn't even able to show me where the water collects!!!!

People with the earlier cars at least have something to point to (the replacement cassette) but once it is replaced I expect you'll get the same treatment as 08+ owners.

The tree crud in my drains was pretty fine - think about it, it has to get by the glass/rubber joint of the sunroof, so this is not a big bunch of leaves, just pollen/dust etc mixed with water, and some pine needles (which also shouldn't be able to get by the glass/rubber seal of the roof!)

Note also my sunroof glass was adjusted because it was catching. (maybe they made the gap too big?)

The sunroof on my Subaru doesn't leak a single drop past the glass/rubber seal. It would have to be a huge downpour for that thing to leak into the cassette.

I am pretty disappointed in the BMW ownership experience. I think the dealership has generally been pretty good about resolving issues but an issue like this should be fully supported and resolved on BMWNA's nickel, under warranty.
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  #100  
Old 07-26-2009, 07:06 PM
potnich potnich is offline
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Exclamation Panoramic Sunroof Leaks

Once again, if you contact Mr. William Stewart (BMWNA customer relations) and also make an appointment with the BMW engineer who solves problems for the BMW dealer in your geographic area, maybe BMWNA will take this problem seriously. This forum is a good way to find out how many owners are unhappy, but BMWNA needs to be contacted so that the dealers will be forced to address the magnitude and seriousness of the problem. Good luck to all!
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