Sunroof Drain Clog - Flood

Originally Posted by potnich

Once again, if you contact Mr. William Stewart (BMWNA customer relations) and also make an appointment with the BMW engineer who solves problems for the BMW dealer in your geographic area, maybe BMWNA will take this problem seriously. This forum is a good way to find out how many owners are unhappy, but BMWNA needs to be contacted so that the dealers will be forced to address the magnitude and seriousness of the problem. Good luck to all!

My case was escalated to BMWNA by the dealer and they authorized a goodwill repair and said it wasn't warranty. They have my case information, and the report of the problem, why should I contact them twice?

What do the dealers have to do? It is a design issue. They just replace things if they are broken. BMW designs the sunroof.

I suggest that persons who have experienced this problem contact U.S. DOT NHTSA: Safercar.gov. You can file a complaint on-line or call the vehicle safety hotline: 1-888-327-4236. I believe this is a serious safety issue that needs to be addressed by BMWNA. If enough complaints are filed, then positive corrective action might be forthcoming. Please give it a try if you are concerned about your safety and that of others. Thank you.

I spoke with the ass't service manager today here at a dealership in N. GA. They are replacing the satellite radio that was damaged by the 2nd 'flood'. I asked for a tutorial in clearing clogged drains for the panoramic sunroof on the 530xi wagons. He said that the car owner should NOT attempt to service the drains by removing the headliner. He said the headliner can be broken fairly easily and is costly to replace.

I feel like i've been through it all with my xiT (including the Enterprise rep doing bodywork damage when she smacked into my car in the lot), but I have also had this problem.

Luckily my dealer blew out the clog and replaced all the fried components in the back wheel well. I didn't see the bill but I'm sure it was huge and it's always left me nervous it could happen again except the second time it'll be on my dime.

I think I may report this as suggested since it seems to me that BMW ought to come up with a recall for this and fix it once and for all.

Originally Posted by potnich

I spoke with the ass't service manager today here at a dealership in N. GA. They are replacing the satellite radio that was damaged by the 2nd 'flood'. I asked for a tutorial in clearing clogged drains for the panoramic sunroof on the 530xi wagons. He said that the car owner should NOT attempt to service the drains by removing the headliner. He said the headliner can be broken fairly easily and is costly to replace.

Is the sat radio repair considered "good will" or "warranty"? (ie will they repair it the 3rd time the drains get clogged)

The sat radio was a 'goodwill' gesture by BMWNA because the sat radio (new supplier) was not available (originally they said we would have to wait until Oct). The other repairs for the 2nd flood ($4000+) were covered by our insurance ($3500). We had to pay the $500 deductible this time and after the 1st flood ($1800, total damage).

Just purchased my "certified" 2006 530xit in February and recently started experiencing major leaks into the back electronic compartments. Knocked out the lights and power to the rear hatch amoungst other warning messages going off. So we took it to the Burlington, Vermont dealership (purchased at Chambers BMW in Boston) as my wife was up there for a few days for a golf tournament. So they get back to me last night to tell me that the car required $1,800.00 in repairs (which they apparently performed without my authorization) to clean the clogged drains and replace the ruined electronic modules and that this is NOT covered under warranty! They asked me if I parked it where there was excessive debris/leaves ect and I told them no! as it is parked in my driveway or at work in an open parking lot. Now this is Vermont and we do have trees but there were no leaves on the trees until May and as it it August the leaves have not even started coming down as yet (thank god). So apparently be forwarned that you cannot own a BMW with a panoramic sunroof in an area that has trees that shed leaves!!! Meanwhile I told them that I am an attorney (which I am) and that I was going to take a shot at BMW for breach of warranty and known defects and for undertaking work without being authorized (there is nothing in the manual about cleaning out the sunroof drains) and the gentleman who called me stated that he would get back to his supervisior and see what can be done. So we shall see. I guess my next step is to call the dealership in Boston and explain the situation to see if they can be of any help. So it was nice to see that TSB posted that I think could be helpful in my upcoming lawsuit with BMW. Maybe we can turn this into a class action suit so let's find out just how many owners are experiencing this problem. Dan Ewald

SI B 54 06 06
Special Roofs November 2006
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes S.I. B54 06 06 dated August 2006.
designates changes to this revision
SUBJECT
Water Leak from Panoramic Sunroof
MODEL
E53 (X5 SAV), E61 (5 Series Sport Wagon) and E83 (X3 SAV) equipped with Panoramic Sunroof (S402A)
SITUATION
Customer may complain of a water leak from the overhead console area during heavy rain or when driving/parking on a steep slope facing downhill.
CAUSE
Possible Causes:
A. Obstructed or damaged drains or drain tubes.
B. Void in the windshield urethane bead.
C. Excessive gaps between the glass panels and the perimeter seal.
D. Inadequate water management system in the sunroof cassette.
CORRECTION
In case of a customer complaint, inspect various components of the sunroof system. Perform a leak test and then perform the recommended repair based on the outcome of these inspections.
An improved sunroof cassette with an optimized water management system has been implemented in production since 10/05.
The current improved part is available as a complete color keyed cassette as opposed to the bare frame previously available.
PROCEDURE
Inspect for the following causes and perform the applicable repair.
Cause A: (Obstructed drains)
• Inspect the cassette drains and drain tubes for any obstructions or kinks in the tubes.
• If any concerns are found with these items, they should be cleaned/repaired/replaced as necessary.
Cause B: (Windshield sealant)
• Inspect the top edge of the windshield glass for any possible voids in the urethane bead.
• Using water or compressed air may help in locating a leak.
• If any voids are found, the windshield must be replaced.
Cause C: (Excessive panel gaps)
• Inspect the condition of the perimeter seal and the gap clearance between:
1. The sunroof glass and the roof panel.
2. The two glass panels.
3. Note: 5.8 plusmn; 0.3mm gap all around (without seal) is required and can be measured with the special gap tool, P/N 00 9 341, or similar.
• If any excessive gaps are found, adjust the glass panels as per RA 54 13 003.
• If any damage to the perimeter seal is found, replace this seal as per RA 54 13 055 and adjust the glass panels as per RA 54 13 003.
Cause D: (Inadequate water management)
• If no fault could be found with causes 1-3, perform the following actions:
1. If the vehicle was produced before 10/2005, replace the sunroof cassette per RA 54 13 080
If the vehicle was produced after 10/2005, do not replace the cassette but still perform the following countermeasures.
Note: The cassette available is the color-keyed updated cassette, complete with headliner and glass panels.
2. Apply light electrical contact grease on to all the electrical connectors and emergency call (SOS) switch in the front interior light console. The surface area must be cleaned as necessary.
3. Replace the perimeter seal as per RA 54 13 055.
4. Install the absorbent pad kit as per the instructions provided in the appropriate Absorbent pad kit attachment.
Note: This kit must be installed exactly as shown in the attachment for maximum effectiveness.
5. Perform additional sealing operation as described in the Cassette Sealing attachment.
6. Initialize sunroof per Repair Instruction 54 0 ...
7. Water test to ensure proper water management.
PARTS INFORMATION
Part Number Description Quantity
54 13 7 184 903 E53 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Light Grey 1
54 13 7 184 904 E53 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Light Beige 1
54 13 7 185 572 E53 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Anthracite 1
54 10 7 185 573 E53 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Pastel Green
54 10 3 436 363 E83 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Anthracite 1
54 10 3 435 213 E83 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Basalt Grey 1
54 10 3 435 217 E83 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Light Beige 1
54 10 3 436 311 E83 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Grey 1
54 13 7 184 899 E61 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Grey 1
54 13 7 184 900 E61 Panoramic Sunroof Cassette – Beige 1
83 23 0 149 149 Electrical contact grease (NyoGel 760G) 1
52 20 3 421 311 E53 Felt Pad 5
51 48 8 211 922 E53 Roof Insulation Material 1
52 20 3 421 311 E61/E83 Felt Pad 2
54 13 7 180 747 E61/E83 Foam Pad 1
54 13 7 072 786 Perimeter Seal – E53/E61/E83 1
WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Defect Code Refer to KSD

And check out this link - I believe that this is an updated version of the SIB posted above:

http://forums.5series.net/index.php?...post&id=107961

Good luck.

So just how do we get in touch with this Mr Stewart??

Originally Posted by dwewald

So just how do we get in touch with this Mr Stewart??

I sent you a private message.

Originally Posted by Patrick

And check out this link - I believe that this is an updated version of the SIB posted above:

http://forums.5series.net/index.php?...post&id=107961

Good luck.

This version seems to more clearly state the need to go through case D, although in my case (and others above) if the drains are clogged by something - and I don't know how clogged mine were - then it seems to say stick to case A.

I also have a 2006 530xiT that has the sunroof leak. Mine was the right rear.

Cleaning the rear drains is an easy DIY, even if you do not remove the headliner. The rear drain tubes run behind the fuse box on the right, in the luggage compartment. There is a small access hole behind the fuse box that you can just barely get your hand into (& I have big hands). It is similarly located on the left. Once you find the drain tube you can either pull it out 1st (it is fastened in place with a rubber "leash" & has a flapper valve on the end that has to fall off, so it is hard to pull out) or go under the car, remove the under cladding, find the tube (it is hard to find) and pull of the flapper valve then. The flapper valves just restrict junk getting out and leads to clogging- at least it did in my xiT. Either way (just pull from inside, or take flapper valve off 1st from below) you can now pull drain tube out of the access hole on the inside of the car. It was clogged. I cleaned out the junk at my end, and then blew into the tube and felt the tube pop when more blockages cleared. I tucked the tube back into the access hole, and through the 1" hole that leads to the bottom of the car, and put the underbody cladding back on.

TESTING:
If the drains work properly, they will drain when water is poured IN THE OUTER CHANNEL ONLY with the sunroof open (as lokking down on an open sunroof). DO NOT pour water into the inner channel as this bypasses the drains and causes water to drain directly into the car, simulating a leak EVEN WHEN THE DRAINS WORK AS SUPPOSED TO.

I believe the design works this way:
The design is that only the outer channels are supposed to direct water. What happens is when the drains clog, the outer channel fills and overflows into the inner channel. The inner channel then drains into the inside of the roof, down the back and into the electronics! When the drains work properly, when the roof is closed, and if the sunroof seals leak, the water falls into the outer channels and drains through the 4 corner drains.

hope this helps.

I too have the same problem with my 2004 X5. Recently duing a major rain storm it was raining just has hard inside the truck. I had water running down and into the housing unit for the sunroof. I jsut got this car at the start of winter when it did not rain was not too happy to find this problem during the summer. I have taken it to a glass shop who seemed all to fimilar with the problem. I find out next week if it is drainage hoses or some other phantom problem. i can just imagine the damage that has been done to the electrical system.

I have a leased 2009 535xi wagon that is now in the shop for this same issue. blew out 1/2 the elctronic equiptment.

Worse, Last year I had to return a 2008 525xi wagon that the entire wireframe had to be replaced and the car never worked properly again... it was in the shop over 50 days and I was forced to use the California lemon law to exit the lease.

Both instances happend after heavy rain. The first - my car just stopped running. dead, had to be towed away. The second - warning signals started malfunctioning, then the headlights, alarm and entry chimes...


This last instance they tried to claim the electronic failure on my dogs dripping in the back. crazy. it's a station wagon isnt it ?

it seems like i should have moved into a different car, as this wagon has some issues. sad because I love the car.

Originally Posted by charcoal535xi

I have a leased 2009 535xi wagon that is now in the shop for this same issue. blew out 1/2 the elctronic equiptment.

did they report your drains were blocked and if so, by what? did warranty cover it?

Originally Posted by OLD BAY

I also have a 2006 530xiT that has the sunroof leak. Mine was the right rear.

Cleaning the rear drains is an easy DIY, even if you do not remove the headliner. The rear drain tubes run behind the fuse box on the right, in the luggage compartment. There is a small access hole behind the fuse box that you can just barely get your hand into (& I have big hands). It is similarly located on the left. Once you find the drain tube you can either pull it out 1st (it is fastened in place with a rubber "leash" & has a flapper valve on the end that has to fall off, so it is hard to pull out) or go under the car, remove the under cladding, find the tube (it is hard to find) and pull of the flapper valve then. The flapper valves just restrict junk getting out and leads to clogging- at least it did in my xiT. Either way (just pull from inside, or take flapper valve off 1st from below) you can now pull drain tube out of the access hole on the inside of the car. It was clogged. I cleaned out the junk at my end, and then blew into the tube and felt the tube pop when more blockages cleared. I tucked the tube back into the access hole, and through the 1" hole that leads to the bottom of the car, and put the underbody cladding back on.

TESTING:
If the drains work properly, they will drain when water is poured IN THE OUTER CHANNEL ONLY with the sunroof open (as lokking down on an open sunroof). DO NOT pour water into the inner channel as this bypasses the drains and causes water to drain directly into the car, simulating a leak EVEN WHEN THE DRAINS WORK AS SUPPOSED TO.

I believe the design works this way:
The design is that only the outer channels are supposed to direct water. What happens is when the drains clog, the outer channel fills and overflows into the inner channel. The inner channel then drains into the inside of the roof, down the back and into the electronics! When the drains work properly, when the roof is closed, and if the sunroof seals leak, the water falls into the outer channels and drains through the 4 corner drains.

hope this helps.

This is right on the money!!! The right side one was accessible to me from inside as described. The left one was not due to electronic stuff. I just poured a few ounces in the outside track on the left rear of the sunroof and found the exit point...easily located and reachable from under the car (no lift required). This is the best advice I have found on this topic for preventative measures. I have no idea what possible purpose this flapper could serve besides clogging the end of the line and causing trouble. At least the front drain tubes don't have them.

First rains in LA this year, and, yep, the wagon is leaking again. At least this time I decided to check before driving the car and found the water coming out of the left/driver side tonneau track. Car is back at the dealership and they are hemming and hawing about the "environmental intrusion" cause again...

What a load of crap. This is a 70k car from one of the supposed premiere auto builders in the world. As helpful as the investigative work done by other posters on how to find and clear the drain lines, I don't think we owners of this premium car should have to spend valuable time dealing with what is a clear design flaw. BMW needs to address this and fix it. Period.

As far as litigation goes, it's always best left as a last resort. So what can we do? Has this Mr. Stewart offered anything positive, or just more buck passing? What about drawing up a group petition and putting it in front of BMW? Last year I registered my complaint on the DHTSA site, but not sure if that will be fruitful.

This is a serious safety issue, not simply some sniveling from BMW owners who don't want to even check the oil themselves. Lives could be at risk when the electronics go out, and the litigation costs for that will be astronomical --- for BMW.

Let's make them set this straight. Thoughts?

My Experience: I have a 2006 BMW 530Xi Wagon. Two days ago my radio and Navigation stopped working so i dropped it by Rasmussen BMW in Portland to have it looked at. I got a call from the service advisor saying that one of my drains was partially clogged and the water ended up being re-routed into the body panels causing damage to the headliner and all of the electrical equipment, NAV, RADIO ETC. He mentioned it was not covered by the warranty because the owner needed to maintain the cleaning of the sunroof drain tubes. I immediately said, i paid for the 100K extended warranty AND Maintenance plan. Originally, I was told when buying the maintenance plan that i only needed to take care of the rubber (TIRES) and all other maintenance aspects were handled by BMW. I have been very diligent about taking the car into the dealership and on three ocassions had Rasmussen adjust the sunroof due to noise issues, i assum this would have been a good time to perform maintenance on the drain tubes. The service manager at Rasmussen explained that the cleaning of the sunroof drain tubes is not a maintenance item, and that cleaning the tubes is the owners responsibility....(WTF). I explained there are many other owners of my exact car having the same issue and there are many service bulletins available discussing issues with the drain system in the bmw. The service advisor explained these SB are to fix other issues and are not related to my issue.

So BMW will take care of changing my wiper blades, flushing my coolant, oil, etc....but when it comes to flushing the drain tubes its an owners responsibility..*****. This is the 11th car i have owned, all with sunroofs, this has never been an issue with any. I live in a secured buildin and park my car indoors, so its not like it sits under a tree all day.

I did call BMW north america and had discussions with them, but received the same bull**** I did from the dealership.

I hope this information helps you in some way.

Originally Posted by danlebaron

The service manager at Rasmussen explained that the cleaning of the sunroof drain tubes is not a maintenance item, and that cleaning the tubes is the owners responsibility....(WTF). I explained there are many other owners of my exact car having the same issue and there are many service bulletins available discussing issues with the drain system in the bmw. The service advisor explained these SB are to fix other issues and are not related to my issue.

We really need to get a class action suit going. My dealer told me that the drains are not cleanable by the owner (requires removing headliner).

Also, no mention of this is made in the owner's manual. My assumption was if I keep my car reasonably clean, with air in the tires etc. that BMW would take care of the rest.

This isn't like we drove the cars into a flooded river and want them to cover the damage.

They clearly have a design flaw that:
1) have poor sunroof cassette drainage that blocks easily (I have other cars with sunroofs covered in more tree crap and dust and mud that have had no issues)
2) have a drainage system that when it overflows (or when the trunk seal fails on the sedan, which it seems to a lot- see other threads) invisibly directs the water to a closed compartment containing the most expensive electronics in the car, which in turn has no drain
3) the owner has no way of easily cleaning the drains, hasn't been told by BMW that they have to do that, nor has any way to detect they need cleaning or that a leak may be occurring

I will never buy another BMW because of their stance on this issue. (they also tried to screw me on the cabin filter change interval)

I am continually amazed how poor the customer service ethic is on the premium luxury brands; I've owned Subarus for over 10 years and them taking the same stance on something like this would be unthinkable. BMW's policy seems to be "blame the customer, if that doesn't work do a one-off good will repair".

I had the same issue. It is a design flaw. Was told by dealership to make insurance claim. I think that would be insurance fraud. In fact, I think every time every dealership has instructed an owner to do this it has been insurance fraud. Since they are being instructed to respond in this manner by BMW NA I think that BMW NA could be prosecuted under federal RICO statutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rackete...anizations_Act

But what do I know?

I loved my car but already had the high pressure fuel pump issue. I was willing to see if they had fixed that for good after several attempts but then after I was told the same nonsense many of you have been told about the sunroof I threw the towel in and had them buy it back.

I can't imagine my ever buying or leasing another BMW. Ever. Clearly a design flaw. BMW NA's posture over this is reprehensible.

Good luck to those still dealing with it.

Originally Posted by ANZAC_1915

We really need to get a class action suit going. My dealer told me that the drains are not cleanable by the owner (requires removing headliner).

Also, no mention of this is made in the owner's manual. My assumption was if I keep my car reasonably clean, with air in the tires etc. that BMW would take care of the rest.

This isn't like we drove the cars into a flooded river and want them to cover the damage.

They clearly have a design flaw that:
1) have poor sunroof cassette drainage that blocks easily (I have other cars with sunroofs covered in more tree crap and dust and mud that have had no issues)
2) have a drainage system that when it overflows (or when the trunk seal fails on the sedan, which it seems to a lot- see other threads) invisibly directs the water to a closed compartment containing the most expensive electronics in the car, which in turn has no drain
3) the owner has no way of easily cleaning the drains, hasn't been told by BMW that they have to do that, nor has any way to detect they need cleaning or that a leak may be occurring

I will never buy another BMW because of their stance on this issue. (they also tried to screw me on the cabin filter change interval)

I am continually amazed how poor the customer service ethic is on the premium luxury brands; I've owned Subarus for over 10 years and them taking the same stance on something like this would be unthinkable. BMW's policy seems to be "blame the customer, if that doesn't work do a one-off good will repair".

I completely agree with you. The way BMW is handling this issue is ridiculous. I spoke to a rep at BMW (Bill Stewart) and was given the "not a defect" response. BMW should be either cleaning these drains as part of scheduled maintenance or fixing the flaw.

Big problems with panoramic sunroof, no coverage under warrantee. this is the third go round with this same problem and I am told it will reoccur.

Originally Posted by Alex Bemporad

Big problems with panoramic sunroof, no coverage under warrantee. this is the third go round with this same problem and I am told it will reoccur.

More details --- were the drains clogged? Did they cover this or prior as "good will"? How much $ in repairs?

Originally Posted by White05X3

A friend has a 530xi wagon. Apparently his sunroof drains got clogged and flooded his electronic compartment, causing a malfunction. Has anybody else experienced this? I have done a search and come up empty.

Thanks!

i've experienced the same clogged and flooded situation x 3 with my current '05 X5 3.0i. easy fix. btw, the BMW tech asked if i "had parked outside during a rain storm...'cause that the problem....hmm. i guess my X5 isn't equipped with special top to endure forces of nature.