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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 08-25-2009, 09:27 AM
ManJuice60 ManJuice60 is offline
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Did I overpay for 2009 X5 3.0

Hi all,

I am brand new to this site, so please bare with me. I just stumbled upon this forum today becuase I was trying to get some info on prices that people paid for their 2009 X5 3.0. I am supposed to pick up the truck this weekend but I was hoping to get some info from people before I actually drive it off the lot. I have been back and forth recently on whether to get a 2009 or 2010 X5. I opted for the 2009 but I may regret that depending on what I hear in response. In referencing the sticky wholesale PDF here is the breakdown of my truck and options.

BMW X5 3.0 - 43,300[WH] 47,100[MSRP]
Premium Pack - 2,910 [WH] 3,200 [MSRP]
Rear Climate - 820 [WH] 900 [MSRP]
Cold Wather - 1,140 [WH] 1,250 [MSRP]
Run Boards - 275 [WH] 300 [MSRP]
Navigation - 1,730 [WH] 1,900 [MSRP]
iPod - 365 [WH] 400 [MSRP]
Destination - 825 825
Training - 180 180
TOTAL - 51,575[WH] 56,055[MSRP]
DEALER FINAL PRICE : 53,500

Am I missing any other costs that go into the wholesale price? What is an acceptable increase to the wholesale price that I can offer? I will at this point either renegotiate or backout being that I have not given my down payment or signed the contract, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Please keep in mind when looking at this that it is impossible to find new 09's. I don't know if that would make the dealer less likely to budget on price. Just as an FYI, it took hours to get him down to this price to begin with. Do people actually use this wholesale price sheet, or specifically reference it to the sales guy in their negotiations? Or is it something that you keep in the back of your mind when throwing out prices.
THANKS for any and all help!

Last edited by ManJuice60; 08-25-2009 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Wrong Data
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:00 AM
sjohnsonca sjohnsonca is offline
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Location: California
 
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Mein Auto: 2009 X5 35d
Here is what I was able to get on a 35d in CA with an MSRP of 71.2K (Cold Weather, Premium, Premium Sound, Rear Climate, Sport, Tech Pkg, Comfort Access, Running boards, Rear Entertainment, iPod/USB, Smartphone, Head-up, HD, Satellite). Wholesale would be around 65.5K (with destination & training). I paid 62.4K, so I paid invoice + 900 when you factor in the 4.5K ECO dealer incentive.

Last edited by sjohnsonca; 08-26-2009 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Error in price paid hopefully fixed this time
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:19 AM
ard ard is offline
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It appears you are $2000 over invoice, right?

That's high.

Deals are at 500-1000 over invoice. Do keep in mind that some dealers pay "maco" which is a fee for advertising that is shared for regional advertising costs. It is a true cost.

The other poster who gave the dealer the entire $4500 was horribly screwed.... (sorry)

To the OP: "hours" to get him down?!?!? I negotiate over the phone- they can take it or leave it. Although I don't really care who places my order... I would tell the dealer "Look, I have another dealer who will place my order and I get a 2010 at $1000 over invoice. Only issue is I wait two months.... I'll give you the same deal for the 2009 just to save me the hassle." he says no, say "Thats too bad. Let me know if you change your mind, my wife and I will order the new one on Saturday"

GL

A
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  #4  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:40 AM
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ckm1515 ckm1515 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManJuice60 View Post
Hi all,

I am brand new to this site, so please bare with me. I just stumbled upon this forum today becuase I was trying to get some info on prices that people paid for their 2009 X5 3.0. I am supposed to pick up the truck this weekend but I was hoping to get some info from people before I actually drive it off the lot. I have been back and forth recently on whether to get a 2009 or 2010 X5. I opted for the 2009 but I may regret that depending on what I hear in response. In referencing the sticky wholesale PDF here is the breakdown of my truck and options.

BMW X5 3.0 - 43,300[WH] 47,100[MSRP]
Premium Pack - 2,910 [WH] 3,200 [MSRP]
Rear Climate - 820 [WH] 900 [MSRP]
Cold Wather - 1,140 [WH] 1,250 [MSRP]
Run Boards - 275 [WH] 300 [MSRP]
Navigation - 1,730 [WH] 1,900 [MSRP]
iPod - 365 [WH] 400 [MSRP]
Destination - 825 825
Training - 180 180
TOTAL - 51,575[WH] 56,055[MSRP]
DEALER FINAL PRICE : 53,500

Am I missing any other costs that go into the wholesale price? What is an acceptable increase to the wholesale price that I can offer? I will at this point either renegotiate or backout being that I have not given my down payment or signed the contract, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Please keep in mind when looking at this that it is impossible to find new 09's. I don't know if that would make the dealer less likely to budget on price. Just as an FYI, it took hours to get him down to this price to begin with. Do people actually use this wholesale price sheet, or specifically reference it to the sales guy in their negotiations? Or is it something that you keep in the back of your mind when throwing out prices.
THANKS for any and all help!

Sounds terrible to me, you can do better. My ride was 52,675 and selling price was 47,390, which is 10% off MSRP. I got mine in summer 2008. I'm in NJ. What dealer you looking at?
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Retired: 2008 X5 3.0si
Retired: 2006 330 Xi
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  #5  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:10 PM
ManJuice60 ManJuice60 is offline
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I am dealing with Roxbury BMW. During the negotiation process it was told to us that 09s are all but gone, so that is why they are keeping the price tight. Like I said we have not made the deal yet but I am thinking that I will pull the "take it or leave it" card becuase, quite frankely, I do not need this right now. I really just want this right now. I have a truck i was trading in, but it works perfectly fine. I am in a great position to walk away, but I am really more nervous for dealers not budging on the 2010 model. Do you think you can get the typical 1% above invoice for a 2010 model, considering they are not out yet? I don't know if dealers are willing to budge on a car that is not even on the market yet. Also, when you order a 2010 at the dealer do they have final pricing yet? I can not find prices for a 2010 online, no less invoice prices to start off at.
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2009, 05:23 PM
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The BoatMan The BoatMan is offline
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Mein Auto: '12 550I GT/ '10 Golf TDI
Just picked up an 09 X535D. Paid 1% over dealer invoice (includes maco/training), base acq fee and no markup on MF. Received full 4500 eco credit. Couldnt be happier. MSRP of 62k for 53k.

I was unsure of whether to hold out for the 2010 but after hearing about the limited allocations and needing the car ASAP am glad I got the 09. Ill have to live with the old iDrive. Love this diesel, a beast.

Ill be writing a full review but if youre anywhere near NJ, you need to contact Ivan who is a board sponsor at bmw of bloomfield. Buying process was painless and took about 3 emails.
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Gone but not forgotten:
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2007 335i European Delivery with Performance Center Re-Delivery * ED May 4, 2007 Link to ED Trip Report / PCD July 5th, 2007 Link to Performance Center Re-Delivery Trip Report
2007 X3 European Delivery with Performance Center Re-Delivery
2002 330ci, 1997 328i, 1990 325i

Last edited by The BoatMan; 08-25-2009 at 05:27 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2009, 05:59 AM
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twowinns twowinns is offline
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Mein Auto: 2007 335ic, 2009 X5 3.0
I got mine in June for $350 over invoice. There are plenty of hungry dealers out there, so take your time and shop around. You can do much better.
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2009 E70 X5 3.0, Monaco Blue / Tobacco Leather / Dark Burl Walnut / Sport
Premium / Technology / CA / Sirius / iPod / Comfort, Heated seats / Running boards

2007 E92 335i, Space Gray / Black Leather / Gray Poplar
Sport / Premium / AT / Nav / CA / Sirius / iPod / Heated seats / Dinan flash
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  #8  
Old 08-26-2009, 08:15 AM
ManJuice60 ManJuice60 is offline
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Location: NJ
 
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Mein Auto: Explorer
To Everyone: Thank you for your help!!. With everyone's input and advice I was able to get the truck for 1% above invoice. I pick it up on Saturday. I CANT WAIT!!!!!!
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2009, 11:24 AM
DocBrown DocBrown is offline
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Location: memphis, tn
 
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Mein Auto: x5 3.0
How to negotiate when there is only one dealer in town

I'm in the market to replace my 2006 X5 3.0 with a 09 or 10 x5 3.0 or 335i convertible. The problem is there is only one dealership in the area, so I don't have any negotiating power. The closest dealerships are in Nashville, TN or Little Rock Arkansas. Both are over two hours away.

Any tips on negotiating with the dealer in my area? Can I really negotiate and buy my car from a dealer 200 miles away?

I'm trying not to overpay.

The only thing I could think of was to pit the BMW dealership against the Lexus dealership in town by negotiating a price on the Lexus RX 350.

Any suggestions out there?
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2009, 12:17 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Well, the key to any negotiation is to not be in a hurry, but to make sure they understand you are ready to move IF the price is really good. Then decide how much effort you want to put into squeezing the last dime out of the dealer. I tend to use the 80/20 rule for lots of things. The 80/20 rule, which was first applied to inventory control, basically says that as a general rule you can get 80% of the benefits with the first 20% of effort... and the last 80% of effort only gets you 20% of the benefits.

I've got a sales guy I like who is a straight-shooter, unlike many salesmen, so I stopped and agreed to $1,700 over invoice plus $150 title/doc fee. Now some will say I stopped too soon and left money on the table, and perhaps I did... but, he doesn't play games, i.e., the $1,700 over invoice is precisely that, with the except of title/doc fee.

Another poster somewhere said he got $500 over invoice. But if you looked close, the "invoice" included $180 training fee, $300 advertising fee, $200 prep fee, $100 for floor mats, and $400 for title/doc fee. In other words, the "invoice" was $1,030 higher than my invoice and, on a comparable basis to my $1,700 over invoice, his $500 over invoice was really $1,530. So his $500 deal was a couple of hundred better than my $1,700 deal.

So make sure you understand what's in the numbers when yuo do comparisons, as if one dealer is charging $400 for title and doc, and another is only charging $150 for title and doc, the first guy can easily quote you an "over invoice" number $250 better and be offering the same deal.
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  #11  
Old 09-29-2009, 12:25 PM
DocBrown DocBrown is offline
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Location: memphis, tn
 
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Mein Auto: x5 3.0
Thanks Penguin. Those were some really good points you made. I'll make sure to keep a close eye on what is included in the price. And honestly, $1,700 over invoice doesn't sound that bad. Especially for a nearly 60k truck.
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2009, 12:50 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
$1,700 over invoice doesn't sound that bad. Especially for a nearly 60k truck.
Yeah, I figure it was the right time as with everything coming together (eco credit, tax credit, etc.) And with BMW letting the $4,500 on a made to order car, I figured I should finally do it. (I could be wrong, but I believe that most of these dealer incentives/credits offered by BMW are typically only on dealer inventory, not ordered vehicles).

Adding it all up, I computed:

Dealer discount from MSRP $3,000
Eco Credit $4,500
Tax Credit $1,800
BMW CCA Incentive $1,000

Total discount from MSRP $10,300

And, in addition, I think the tax rules for 2009 are favorable to deduct the vehicle sales tax.

So if I passed-up $500 or so by not playing hardball, so be it.
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2009, 07:34 PM
jhu321 jhu321 is offline
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right now i'm working my dealers @ 1500 over invoice on a 2010 35d... I know the 2009's had 500 over invoice or straight invoice but the 2010's are supposedly a bit more limited in the allocation. my dealer would do 1000 over invoice on 3.0 or a 4.8. If you do the PDC pickup then it doesn't really matter who you buy it from right? work the entire country. I just blasted out an email with my offer of 1000 over invoice on a 2010 order and went with the cheapest.

-john
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  #14  
Old 09-29-2009, 07:45 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Originally Posted by jhu321 View Post
If you do the PDC pickup then it doesn't really matter who you buy it from right? work the entire country. -john

Technically true, but don't be too surprised if your local BMW dealer gives a bit of priority and preference to people who bought cars from him if warranty work or advocacy with the Regional BMW rep is needed, e.g., one of the local dealers makes sure that their customers get BMW loaners when vehicles are in for warranty work, while non-customers in for warranty work with vehicles they bought from other dealers get whatever rental Enterprise has available.

Last edited by Penguin; 09-29-2009 at 07:52 PM.
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2009, 09:10 PM
jhu321 jhu321 is offline
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yeah i found that tipping your service writer and building a good relationship with him goes alot farther than anything else. My guy has made sure that everything was underwarranty even questionable stuff. As for loaners, yeah I don't really do loaners cuz i don't drive that much being in the city but i can see that as being something that people would need.

-john
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  #16  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:08 PM
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twowinns twowinns is offline
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Location: Puyallup, WA
 
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Mein Auto: 2007 335ic, 2009 X5 3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
The problem is there is only one dealership in the area, so I don't have any negotiating power. The closest dealerships are in Nashville, TN or Little Rock Arkansas. Both are over two hours away.

Any tips on negotiating with the dealer in my area? Can I really negotiate and buy my car from a dealer 200 miles away?
First - Know exactly what car and features you want before starting, and research the MSRP and dealer invoice. Then get firm quotes from the Nashville and Little Rock dealers, and take them to the Memphis dealer and start your negotiations. Let them know you're willing to buy out of town, but that you'd prefer to buy locally if they'll match or beat the quotes.

If business is slow or you go in at the end of the month, you'd be surprised how much additional leverage you'll have. If you have your financing lined up (or pay cash) and willing to buy right then (or place an order with a deposit), you'll improve your odds. Being willing to wait a fews weeks for an allocation will also help.

If the Memphis dealer doesn't give you what you want, buy elsewhere. If you can save a bundle, it will be worth it to drive 200 miles.

I bet you'll end up getting a good deal in Memphis.
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2009 E70 X5 3.0, Monaco Blue / Tobacco Leather / Dark Burl Walnut / Sport
Premium / Technology / CA / Sirius / iPod / Comfort, Heated seats / Running boards

2007 E92 335i, Space Gray / Black Leather / Gray Poplar
Sport / Premium / AT / Nav / CA / Sirius / iPod / Heated seats / Dinan flash

Last edited by twowinns; 09-29-2009 at 10:11 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:54 PM
jhu321 jhu321 is offline
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Penguin,

where abouts in illinois are you @? i'm in chicago and am about to order... just wondering what your experience was.

-john
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:57 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by jhu321 View Post
yeah i found that tipping your service writer and building a good relationship with him goes alot farther than anything else.
Bingo!

Take care of the people that take care of you. Why allow yourself to be screwed over by the sales staff at a higher priced dealer under threat of "we'll make sure our service people treat you poorly"?

The dealer apologists will say "it isn't that we treat people poorly, we are just extra nice to our loyal repeat customers". Whatever. You've nailed it though- the relationship with service staff is your key to your service experience.

JMHO

A
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2009, 06:08 AM
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twowinns twowinns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhu321 View Post
yeah i found that tipping your service writer and building a good relationship with him goes alot farther than anything else. My guy has made sure that everything was underwarranty even questionable stuff. As for loaners, yeah I don't really do loaners cuz i don't drive that much being in the city but i can see that as being something that people would need.

-john
I always thank and compliment my service advisor and ask to speak to his/her boss to tell them what a good experience I had. I've never seen anyone tip them before, and I haven't either.

How much is an appropriate amount to tip? Do dealerships allow this?
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2009 E70 X5 3.0, Monaco Blue / Tobacco Leather / Dark Burl Walnut / Sport
Premium / Technology / CA / Sirius / iPod / Comfort, Heated seats / Running boards

2007 E92 335i, Space Gray / Black Leather / Gray Poplar
Sport / Premium / AT / Nav / CA / Sirius / iPod / Heated seats / Dinan flash
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:25 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Tipping the SA? No way! That must be some sort of east coast/Chicago thing. I have never heard of that in any dealership/indy shop I have used. They get paid very well in those jobs and don't need any largess to do their jobs right IMHO. A "tip" from me is all "5's" on the survey.
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  #21  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:27 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twowinns View Post

How much is an appropriate amount to tip? Do dealerships allow this?
I'd say it depends on the situation, and the geographic location. if there is a particularly large or positive effort made (like a major issue solved, scheduled, parts shipped in, warranty coverage) I might make a point of a tip. Or, orver time there is a history of a few good service visits, then I might tip at that point. I've used a gift card (visa or mastercard), 25, 50, 100. All depends. For example getting a clutch covered under a warranty where they could have done the old "must be abuse dance" might call for 100. (Actually, it is the tips on the visits before that would determine clutch coverage!)

It is always low key, not crass... "I appreciate the work you do and how you help me out. Lunch/Dinner is on me"

For me, a tip is always private, between me and the individual. I assume that if it isn't permitted the employee will let me know- no matter what the business. Certainly I am always permitted to give money away...
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2009, 10:43 AM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Tipping the SA? No way! That must be some sort of east coast/Chicago thing. I have never heard of that in any dealership/indy shop I have used. They get paid very well in those jobs and don't need any largess to do their jobs right IMHO. A "tip" from me is all "5's" on the survey.

They certainly don't. (deserve a tip for just doing the job) But when they go above and beyond, I consider it. It should never be expected nor automatic nor regular. I think it has more impact when it is unusual and occasional... all depends on the situation.

A
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2009, 01:08 PM
jhu321 jhu321 is offline
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Location: chicago
 
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Mein Auto: Wrecked 745Li
give an example... my 745Li had a weird vibration at stop.... they couldn't figure out what it was but my service writer says you know what... lets change out your transmission and see what happens... bear in mind this was @ 70k miles... this wouldn't even be a legit diagnostic avenue but it seemed logical as its either the engine or the transmission. Sure enough new tranny got rid of the vibration. according to all the diagnostics the old one was perfectly fine. anycase... it was like a 10k bill to bmw for tranny swap he went to bat for me and covered under warranty. that deserved a nice tip.

I had a 2002 745Li and there was many many gremlins in that car, it would do things only occassionally... with perillo being the only bmw service center in downtown, u usally have to wait a good 2 weeks for an appointment; for me its always straight up drive right in and it gets looked at immediately if its doing something funky at the moment. No waiting 2 weeks and not being able to reproduce.

so in the end, tip your Service Writer and build a good relationship and if he's worth the tip, he'll respondi n kind

-john
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