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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 10-13-2009, 03:19 PM
whipsawmike whipsawmike is offline
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Mein Auto: 2002 4.6 X5
Question Potential 2010 x5 3.0D Buyer- What am I missing?

I have owned a used 2002 4.6l X5 for 6 years, and it is a fantastic car, but every time it breaks down it feels like it costs me a grand to fix. Plus, the mileage is just so horrible. So I started looking around, and my BMW dealer recommended I try the diesel X5. Doesn't have one to test drive, but from the reviews I have read, it seems like it could be too good to be true - especially given the better mileage of the diesel, the tax credit and the $4500 give back. Now it sounds like it could be awhile before one is available even if I order it today and I am concerned with it's operation in cold weather as I live in the Northeast. Does anyone in this forum have experience with operating an '09 or older European version in cold weather? Are the diesels really that much more powerful with decent mileage? Anything I should be aware of? What am I missing? Really appreciate any feedback as I am close to making a decision.
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:48 AM
z2g z2g is offline
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the diesel X5 only get about 6-7 mpg more than the non-diesel 3.0 model? I did the math and that only saves you about $500-600 in gasoline costs per year. Since the diesel model is about $5k more than the non-diesel, it'll take you around 8-10 yrs to offset the original purchase price of the car.
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2009, 05:06 AM
vp201035d vp201035d is offline
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Out of the reviews that I have read the Diesel version can potentialy do better than ratings and get up to 31 - 33 MPG on long highway hauls.
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2009, 05:15 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z2g View Post
Since the diesel model is about $5k more than the non-diesel, it'll take you around 8-10 yrs to offset the original purchase price of the car.
At the moment, the Diesel is cheaper than the non-diesel, since BMW has a $4,500 incentive and the IRS gives you $1,800 in tax credit, i.e., an X5 Diesel is now $2,600 cheaper than a gasoline X5.


That's why BMW found a lackluster reception for the diesels, and then saw a great increase in demand in August.
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2009, 08:15 AM
whipsawmike whipsawmike is offline
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Unless they are discounting non-diesels, with the give back and tax credit it is definetly cheaper. Plus, I am noticing diesel is cheaper than premium unleaded - which is what you have to put in one of the x5's anyway. Thus the reason for the post - I don't believe in free lunches. Anyone out there have problems with the diesels in cold weather? How bad are these production delays - could they be because the discounting program has been so successful?
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2009, 08:47 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipsawmike View Post
could they be because the discounting program has been so successful?

Possible. In the past month or so, the BMW NA head said they had added an extra 1,000 diesels to the production program for 2009, and that total sales of diesels so far in 2009 was around 2,600 units. So that sounds like a significant boost from the eco credit.
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2009, 09:10 AM
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jaaX3 jaaX3 is offline
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My car completed production 7 days ago, so we'll be taking delivery soon (hopefully). It's already getting cold here in Denver, so I'll be watching our cold weather operations closely. I don't expect any issues at all, but I will report.
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2009, 09:48 AM
z2g z2g is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
At the moment, the Diesel is cheaper than the non-diesel, since BMW has a $4,500 incentive and the IRS gives you $1,800 in tax credit, i.e., an X5 Diesel is now $2,600 cheaper than a gasoline X5.


That's why BMW found a lackluster reception for the diesels, and then saw a great increase in demand in August.
I was just thinking about that when I posted too. But, I figured to calculate it out by regular means...purchase price and gas costs. With the $4500 incentive, aren't ppl still getting the diesel for invoice pricing? And, with the tax credit, is that an $1800 tax write-off or actual $1800 taken out of the taxes you may owe? Because, it's a big difference.

You guys have got me thinking now. Should I get the Diesel X5 for my wife now?

Last edited by z2g; 10-14-2009 at 10:07 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2009, 11:14 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z2g View Post
I was just thinking about that when I posted too. But, I figured to calculate it out by regular means...purchase price and gas costs. With the $4500 incentive, aren't ppl still getting the diesel for invoice pricing? And, with the tax credit, is that an $1800 tax write-off or actual $1800 taken out of the taxes you may owe? Because, it's a big difference. You guys have got me thinking now. Should I get the Diesel X5 for my wife now?

Regarding the tax, it is an Tax Credit, not a Tax Deduction, i.e., you simply subtract $1,800 from your tax bill... an honest $1,800 savings.

The diesel premium over the 3.0 Gasoline is $3,700. So assuming you can negotiate a similar dealer profit margin for the diesel vs. the 3.0 gasoline, you should end-up about $800 less than the gasoline. Now, it is possible that the dealer won't deal as much on a diesel if he is short allocations and thinks he has customers for them, but taking the eco credit and tax credit into account, it is almost a sure bet that a diesel X5 will be cheaper than a gasoline X5 at this point in time.
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:08 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Some performance data from Consumers Reports.

From what I've read in other tests, the diesel advantage shown in the CR test below seems to be too low, but FWIW, this is what they tested:

3.0 gasoline first number, Diesel second number:

0-30 (sec) 3.0 3.3
0-60 (sec) 8.6 8.3
45-65 (sec) 5.5 4.8

1/4 mile (sec) 16.7 16.6
1/4 mile (mph) 86.0 87.6

Engine RPM at 60 mph 2,195 1,805

Avoidance maneuver (MPH) 53.0 52.0 (heavier engine making a difference, or just random test variance?)


Fuel Economy Overall (MPG) 17 22
Fuel Economy City/Highway (MPG) 12/22 15/29
Fuel Economy 150 mile trip (MPG) 21 28

Cruising range (miles) 440 595

Again, that's just what CR testing says, YMMV.

Motor Trend comes-up with some very different numbers:

http://motortrend.automotive.com/101...est/specs.html

They get a 2.0 sec 0-30 mph, compared to CR's 3.3 sec, and a 0-60 of 6.7 sec, compared to CR's 8.3 sec.


I guess Motor Trend And Consumers Reports must have different launch techniques...

Last edited by Penguin; 10-14-2009 at 12:20 PM. Reason: adding Motor Trend Test Data
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  #11  
Old 10-14-2009, 04:14 PM
whipsawmike whipsawmike is offline
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Thanks for all that information. Dealer says that unless I live in Alaska, cold operation shouldn't be a problem. I don't believe these guys, but I read somewhere that 65% of all BMW cars sold in Europe now are diesels. Now if they aren't having problems in the cold, I assume someone in NY shouldn't. Just feels too good to be true, I am coming to the conclusion that maybe I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipsawmike View Post
Just feels too good to be true, I am coming to the conclusion that maybe I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Well, it's the $4,500 BMW incentive and the US Government $1,800 incentive that makes it a good deal. Without that, the diesel would be $6,300 more expensive than the current deal.


Frankly, I think one of the reasons BMW though they could price the diesel so high was because of the $1,800 tax credit, i.e., take the $3,700 premium BMW has for the Diesel in MSRP, subtract the $1,800 tax credit, and you get a premium of $1,900 for the diesel option -- near the high-end of what most people thought BMW might charge before the price was announced. But it appears that psychologically most people do not consider getting $1,800 back on their taxes next year as the same as $1,800 less at the time of purchase and mainly saw the $3,700 premium.

Last edited by Penguin; 10-14-2009 at 04:27 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-18-2009, 09:59 AM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
What, you think modern diesels won't run in the cold? Where did you come up with that idea? Ever been passed by an 18 wheeler on the Maine Turnpike in the middle of February, when it's 10 below? Ever seen one of those old codgers driving down the Merritt Parkway in a 20-year-old Mercedes 300D? Ever watched the TV show "Ice Road Truckers"?

BMW does its cold weather testing above the Arctic Circle. I hardly think Westchester County will pose a challenge. If you lived in Alaska you might want to add an engine block heater, but you certainly won't need one in NY. As you noted, folks are catching on to the diesels and they are in short supply. Place your order before they are all gone.
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2009, 10:04 AM
Patrick Patrick is offline
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I drive my E61 530d year around, even when it is -20C here. No issues at all in cold weather.
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2009, 12:47 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I drive my E61 530d year around, even when it is -20C here. No issues at all in cold weather.



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  #16  
Old 10-19-2009, 10:37 AM
whipsawmike whipsawmike is offline
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Thanks everyone - I placed my order. Get tech, premium, heated front seats, running boards and satellite radio. Dealer talked me out of active suspension saying they have had problems with it and it is mostly used for off road stuff. I guess the other things in the sports package look nice aethetically, but I had 20 inch tires on my BMW 4.6 - useless in the snow. I am sticking the night so fancy stuff and saving the dough - I hope I don't regret it.
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2009, 11:16 AM
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jaaX3 jaaX3 is offline
Yes, please!
Location: Denver
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipsawmike View Post
Dealer talked me out of active suspension saying they have had problems with it and it is mostly used for off road stuff.
What? He said that, really?

Congrats on your order.
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