The official PPXWY thread.

Originally Posted by cubed

(did I really just say that?)

Yes you did. Well said. .

But don't be so quick to let Evl off the hook.

Originally Posted by HT417

Yes you did. Well said. .

But don't be so quick to let Evl off the hook.

Hahahaha

Ah well. If you all just had killer stereos we would be ok.

Originally Posted by x3ml

1. Happened to me too, I am with you.

2. If they said it was designed to be like that, they were lying. Some has the symptoms, some not, yours are like mine: many symptoms are intermittent, some days are better... I have already answer this in another post. The way they told me is that my remaining symptoms are "common". (I can't argue with this!)

3. When the transmission in my X3 is "acting up", I hate the suspension too. When the transmission is fine, I don't hate the suspension. I think this is the phenomenon.

4. PPXYZ, can you answer MORE to this question? - "PPXYZ please tell us what another mechanic, lawyer, BMWNA representative, etc has said with respect to this situation." Did you find the lawyer yet?

Note: those who have no problems with their X3s should just ignore these posts and should certainly avoid answering them.

I find the suspension and other issues to be separate from the transmission problems although the jerky transmission exacerbates the suspension problem. Other things have come up which have to be dealt with first because they are significantly more dangerous than even the AT or the bouncing suspension.

4: IMO it is best to have a handle on everything at the same time instead of dribbling it out.

Obviously I don't know for sure but I can speculate that my suspension bouncing issue is an over reaction to the stiffness in the suspension problem from previous year's models. The spring from imperfections in the road reverberates through the cabin making it feel as if it (the cabin, not the car) is bouncing up and down like a ball. My car does this even when the AT isn't acting up.

$10 says that PPXYZ is on pay rolls of Audi/MB/VW and just discrediting X3.

Originally Posted by x3ml

4. PPXYZ, can you answer MORE to this question? - "PPXYZ please tell us what another mechanic, lawyer, BMWNA representative, etc has said with respect to this situation." Did you find the lawyer yet?

Originally Posted by Evlengr

PPXWZ we have yet to hear that you have pursued this route.

Plan and simple: WHY NOT?

Way to run with it PP...

The peanut gallery strikes again.

Originally Posted by PPXYZ

The peanut gallery strikes again.

I feel your pain here PPXYZ, but for some reason you keep skirting the question of why don't you seek third party assistance?

If you need assistance on who to contact or how to go about it we can help, but we can't help you if you don't try.

It's really a simple question.

It is the only way you will get this resolved!

Originally Posted by Evlengr

If you all just had killer stereos we would be ok.

I didn't think I needed one until I stretched its legs on the Autobahn a couple of days ago. You'll need every watt you can get to drown out all the noise when you're cruising at 110+mph.

Originally Posted by Evlengr

I feel your pain here PPXYZ, but for some reason you keep skirting the question of why don't you seek third party assistance?

If you need assistance on who to contact or how to go about it we can help, but we can't help you if you don't try.

It's really a simple question.

It is the only way you will get this resolved!

How does a car manufacturer get around the Lemon Laws? They simply say (choose one or more):

1. It is normal.

2. We can't feel it today although we felt it yesterday.

3. The other new one in our lot does the same thing.

4. It is a secret design feature....no joke...I was actually told that.

5. Here is a work around because we know about this problem but it isn't really a problem.

6. Etc.

The key is to not acknowledge the problem no matter how dangerous, how common, how well understood and how often the problem has been addressed. That is the simple work around for avoiding lemon laws. Lack of admission is proof of lack of a problem.

From what I see, it is easy to run out the clock and have furious customers who may even be driving around in dangerous cars. The customer can simply park the car in the garage until they can peel themselves off the ceiling and sell it to some poor schmuck (you know who you are) and get a good car from another manufacturer and roll the dice again.

This is why most people hate buying cars.

So having lemon laws where you live is not protection against driving around in lemons. Most lemons are never lemon lawed and now you know why. Intermittent problems are the best protection. If you don't know when they are going to come up, exactly how much time and effort will customers spend trying to show them to an independent mechanic? Besides, even then, those things aren't problems, they are features.

Does that mean that those who have lemons shouldn't tell others about them? Oh, come on....have we really come to that?

Caveat customer stupidity.

Originally Posted by PPXYZ

How does a car manufacturer get around the Lemon Laws? They simply say (choose one or more):

1. It is normal.

2. We can't feel it today although we felt it yesterday.

3. The other new one in our lot does the same thing.

4. It is a secret design feature....no joke...I was actually told that.

5. Here is a work around because we know about this problem but it isn't really a problem.

6. Etc.

The key is to not acknowledge the problem no matter how dangerous, how common, how well understood and how often the problem has been addressed. That is the simple work around for avoiding lemon laws. Lack of admission is proof of lack of a problem.

From what I see, it is easy to run out the clock and have furious customers who may even be driving around in dangerous cars. The customer can simply park the car in the garage until they can peel themselves off the ceiling and sell it to some poor schmuck (you know who you are) and get a good car from another manufacturer and roll the dice again.

This is why most people hate buying cars.

So having lemon laws where you live is not protection against driving around in lemons. Most lemons are never lemon lawed and now you know why. Intermittent problems are the best protection. If you don't know when they are going to come up, exactly how much time and effort will customers spend trying to show them to an independent mechanic? Besides, even then, those things aren't problems, they are features.

Does that mean that those who have lemons shouldn't tell others about them? Oh, come on....have we really come to that?

Caveat customer stupidity.

So you haven't contacted a lemon lawyer or a third party as was suggested in one way or another from just about everyone on this board.

What dont you understand about seek third party assistance?

Originally Posted by PPXYZ

Does that mean that those who have lemons shouldn't tell others about them? Oh, come on....have we really come to that?

Not at all -- you've conveyed the nature of your problems numerous times. That's fine.

The problem is that you aren't doing anything to get the problem fixed (or telling us of your progress). If you have contacted an attorney, your local consumer protection office, BMW NA, or your local dealer, you should tell us that. Otherwise, we're just going to assume you are a person who has a problem -- and the time to tell others about it -- but not the time to see if it can be fixed.

In my personal example, I had a problem with a prior BMW, called BMW NA, and had the problem fixed for a reasonable cost (I paid labor, BMW paid parts). I told other people about the problem so they could be aware of it, but also conveyed to them the solution so others could pursue it. In fact, I learned of the possibility of a solution from an internet message board.

I should mention that the car in question had almost 100,000 miles on it when I got it repaired (and was never a CPO car), so BMW NA is not averse to finding solutions well beyond the warranty period.

If you can, I'd like to know:
1. To how many attorneys have you spoke about your claim?
2. With which state consumer protection agency did you file a claim?
3. How many certified letters have you sent to BMW NA? What were their written responses?
4. What other actions have you taken to try to solve the problem?

If you think you've exhausted all avenues to get this fixed, I'd like to see the list of things you have tried so far. "Driving to the dealer and talking with a service advisor" may only be the first of many steps to get this fixed.

-pd.

it does not matter WHAT The dealer says. so long as it's been in thre times or more or more than 30 days. that's the CA rule anyway. Tell them you've hired and attorney and want a Trade Assist.

PPX, perhaps we can help you better if we knew your location and what dealer is giving you grief. At the least we would know who to avoid taking our cars to for service.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

PPX, perhaps we can help you better if we knew your location and what dealer is giving you grief. At the least we would know who to avoid taking our cars to for service.

I actually don't have a problem with the dealer because, as far as I know (FWIW) they are doing what they can given what they know. At any rate there is a new s/w update coming so someone, somewhere knows there is still a problem.

I understand (FWIW) the parameters of a Lemon Law claim, the timeframe, the requirements, etc. It is pretty much what I expected although somewhat more generous to the consumer than I thought. I suspect that no one wants problem cars on the streets.

The latest dangerous hiccup might be bad documentation or another ongoing problem. I'll see, these things take a long time to figure out and resolve.

I also now know that the problems I feel ARE NOT the difference between a 3 and a 5 and, now that I've found the Edmunds review regarding the busted suspension, I think I understand the problem with the rocky ride.

If someone gets tired of blaming the AT, I suggest substituting the AWD just for kicks.

That is some progress!

Originally Posted by Evlengr

So you haven't contacted a lemon lawyer or a third party as was suggested in one way or another from just about everyone on this board.

What dont you understand about seek third party assistance?

What makes you think I haven't?

Originally Posted by PPXYZ

What makes you think I haven't?

Because you keep avoiding the topic and don't seem to have even looked up lemon laws.

You seem to think the dealer can dictate the terms.

Look this site is to help people, and we have been through a lot of the malarky that you are dealing with, but until you move forward. All it is, is a lot of talk and we can't help you.

Originally Posted by PPXYZ

...now that I've found the Edmunds review regarding the busted suspension, I think I understand the problem with the rocky ride.

If you're referring to the long term test they did on a 2004 where the rear suspension blew out after 4 hours off pavement, I think you're taking things out of context. 2004 was the first model year and is infamous for its rock hard suspension. There have been two suspension updates between that one and yours. Blaming your suspension problems on that one is like comparing apples to oranges IMHO.

Originally Posted by PPXYZ

What makes you think I haven't?

Have you? A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice.

-pd.

A location (state) would be nice too!

Originally Posted by HT417

If you're referring to the long term test they did on a 2004 where the rear suspension blew out after 4 hours off pavement, I think you're taking things out of context. 2004 was the first model year and is infamous for its rock hard suspension. There have been two suspension updates between that one and yours. Blaming your suspension problems on that one is like comparing apples to oranges IMHO.

It was a 2005.

They destroyed the shocks and other parts of the suspension system in one afternoon of driving on fire access roads maintained by the state. Does that not sound odd to you? It sounds odd to me for an SAV that 'looks' like it could go off road. I thought they put these cars up on test beds and rock them for more than an afternoon but maybe they don't?

That was after the first suspension update. I haven't seen anything anywhere that says what they did to the suspension in either 2005 and 2007 other than 'soften' them up due to the myriad of complaints about the harsh ride. What does soften them up mean?

As I have said before, my SPECULATION is that they softened them up by making them wobbly. Perhaps some X3's are wobblier than others and maybe I have the worst of the bunch...I do not know.

What I mean by wobbly is that they dealt with the harsh ride problems by doing something to the dampening system (?) so that major imperfections are dealt with fine but minor ones cause bouncing/swaying disconnect between the cabin and the wheels. That is what it feels like to me in my car.

Your springiness may vary.

Originally Posted by pdx3

Have you? A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice.

-pd.

So do you have A case already?

Since this person seems to ignore all suggestions to help remedy his/her situation.

I do not believe the s/he has pursued any other means to resolve this problem and will continue to post observations with no factual data to back it up, other than reposting other peoples information.


This is a strange turn of events given my past history.

Here is my suggestion to help others on the forum.

PPxwy -- your last few posts on this thread are so moronic that I will be ignoring your posts from here on in. Do you honestly think a major car manufacturer - and one that has been a leader in virtually every class of vehicle it makes -- would really do some of the crap you are suggesting? And what about the tens of thousands of X3's that this manufacturer has made that have thoroughly satisfied their drivers? What about All those vehicles that havent been "wobbly" or exhibited the "behavior" your X3 has? How do you explain those if what you say is true? You either got a lemon or you yourself are a lemon. Either way -- its time to move on. I think it is your "behavior" that is suspect and that your logic circuits are a tad "wobbly." Seeya...

Originally Posted by PPXYZ

As I have said before, my SPECULATION is that they softened them up by making them wobbly. Perhaps some X3's are wobblier than others and maybe I have the worst of the bunch...I do not know.

PPXYZ - I think the only wobbly thing is your imagination! I don't know what you are on, but you may want to cut back for a while.