135i - Good deal on lease ?

I got this deal from a local dealer on a 09 BMW 135i with sport + premium pkg.
car is new but has 135 miles on odometer.

msrp: 45,000

they sell to me for: 41,000

$0 down ,
$500 due at signing for dealer fees,
$626 /mo includes tax and 12,000 mi/year.


Is this a good deal ?

Not a good deal.

Originally Posted by Pete Teoh

Not a good deal.

can you elaborate on why it's not good?

What should I be looking for to make it good?

They are using a .00235 MF and 61% residual on the above lease...which I find is better than what most dealers are giving.

I recently bought a 135i with MSRP of $45,000 for $40,000, 2.9% financing, $5k down and $660/mo for 60 months. At the end of the transaction I'll actually own something.

How high is your tax rate? If its around 8% it seems okay.

I am not sure why you only are paying $500 at inception. You are paying interest on fees.

Originally Posted by Pete Teoh

I recently bought a 135i with MSRP of $45,000 for $40,000, 2.9% financing, $5k down and $660/mo for 60 months. At the end of the transaction I'll actually own something.

you'll own something which is worth nothing close to what you paid for it.

Originally Posted by pj94z

you'll own something which is worth nothing close to what you paid for it.

... versus owning nothing. Buying a car is a almost always a financial outflow so I might as well have something, no matter how little, to show for it.

Originally Posted by Pete Teoh

... versus owning nothing. Buying a car is a almost always a financial outflow so I might as well have something, no matter how little, to show for it.

touche

.................

Originally Posted by Pete Teoh

I recently bought a 135i with MSRP of $45,000 for $40,000, 2.9% financing, $5k down and $660/mo for 60 months. At the end of the transaction I'll actually own something.

You also forgot the cost of your trip to Europe in there to get your car. I always love threads like this, people asking about leases with no essential terms or worksheets listed, then they get jumped on by lease bashers who leave out key details themselves.

As for buying vs leasing, I'll take a good lease deal on a 135 any day of the week. With the issues these N54 cars have had I don't want to own it and spend a ton of $ to maintain it. The problem is this lease programs for 135s just aren't that good right now. We'll see if November brings something better.

buying depreciating assets


What about all the car companies that nearly lost their shirts by leasing in the past? The residuals they guessed were horribly wrong, way too strong.
If you leased during that time you reaped the benefit of that. If you bought, too bad for you; your car is worth a whole lot less than you figured.

And Pete T... yea,you "actually own something"... I agree with that...

I would rather have cash in the bank (the money saved on the down payment of a finance), than a used car.

Scoring a good deal on a lease is a bit harder now, but the deals are still out there. You just need to know where to look.

Hey guys,

I ended up leasing the 135i coupe yesterday! November Lease deals from BMW are worse then OCT deal, the dealership hooked me up with OCT deal.

45k msrp, sell for 41k - 09 BMW 135i Auto with paddle shifters - M sport pkg - prem pkg - satellite - heated seats - etc.

61% residual - .00235 MF
$750 cash back at signing from bmw
$0 down, $0 sec deposit, $0 cap cost reduction
$800 in dealer fees (tax, doc fee, inception fee bla bla )

Total out of pocket for me: approx $500 !

Monthly Pmt: $626 (including 6% tax, tag, title etc)

Big Plus: Dealer gave me $28k cash for my 08 328i , which I paid $28k for 1 year ago (Other Dealers offered 23k trade in! )

Originally Posted by pj94z

November Lease deals from BMW are worse then OCT deal, the dealership hooked me up with OCT deal.

45k msrp, sell for 41k - 09 BMW 135i Auto with paddle shifters - M sport pkg - prem pkg - satellite - heated seats - etc.

61% residual - .00235 MF
$750 cash back at signing from bmw
$0 down, $0 sec deposit, $0 cap cost reduction
$800 in dealer fees (tax, doc fee, inception fee bla bla )

the November program is better. $1500 bmw holiday cash. LOWER MF, .00200 instead of .00230

not sure how that is a "hook up"

Originally Posted by FJUNO78

the November program is better. $1500 bmw holiday cash. LOWER MF, .00200 instead of .00230

not sure how that is a "hook up"

I'm not sure that's the case, on the Ask-a-Dealer board there's a lot of confusion about the MFs used on the leases with the holiday money. Plus the residuals may have changed. If you know something I don't congrats, but multiple people have been told the subvented money factor and holiday cash can't be used together, and if that's the case the OP absolutely got a "hook up."

If they gave him an inflated trade value to close the deal that only makes the deal stronger.

Originally Posted by BWM135

I'm not sure that's the case, on the Ask-a-Dealer board there's a lot of confusion about the MFs used on the leases with the holiday money. Plus the residuals may have changed. If you know something I don't congrats, but multiple people have been told the subvented money factor and holiday cash can't be used together, and if that's the case the OP absolutely got a "hook up."


If they gave him an inflated trade value to close the deal that only makes the deal stronger.

The confusion is because SOME models (550i, 328 etc) mf's went up from october to november. This diminishes the benefit of the holiday rebate.

The 135's mf went down from october to now. This coupled with the holiday cash makes the new program much better.

The money factor went down, but if combined with the holiday cash, BMW adds 60 bps to the MF: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=409872

If the OP was able to get the $750 lease cash with the old MF, it might have been just as good as the new MF for his monthly payments, because of the cap reduction.

Originally Posted by crew09

The money factor went down, but if combined with the holiday cash, BMW adds 60 bps to the MF: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=409872

If the OP was able to get the $750 lease cash with the old MF, it might have been just as good as the new MF for his monthly payments, because of the cap reduction.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Yea.. for the 550i, the increase in MF takes away most of the joy of the Cash Incentive.

BMW is not "adding 60 pts to the MF" because you take the incentive. BMW just raised the MF 70 p on the 550i program for Nov-Dec. End of story.

For the 135i (Which is relevant being that this is what the thread is about)

The MF went down from .00230 to .0020, and there is Holdiday incentive.

To sum it up... Most models get a Holiday Cash Incentive. Alot of the models have higher MF's this program, eating away some of that Holiday Cash. Some of the models (135i for example) gets a lower money factor and the holiday cash.

There is no extra add on because of the rebate. the MF is what it is... If it went up, sucks for the guy with the 550i... if it went down... (135i) double win....

Take a look at this:
October Program

2010 BMW 550i Sedan
24 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00155 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 57% of MSRP – .00155 Base Rate

November Program

2010 BMW 550i Sedan
24 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00225 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 57% of MSRP – .00225 Base Rate


The November program went up 70 points on the 550i... it's not an add on to the MF at the dealership level.

Originally Posted by BWM135

You also forgot the cost of your trip to Europe in there to get your car. I always love threads like this, people asking about leases with no essential terms or worksheets listed, then they get jumped on by lease bashers who leave out key details themselves.

No, I did not forget about the cost of my trip to Europe. I travel every year regardless of whether I'm buying a car, so any vacation cost is a sunk cost. It bears no relevance to the price of the car in my situation. If anything, it REDUCED the cost of my vacation since I did not have to pay for a rental car while I was there.

Originally Posted by FJUNO78

buying depreciating assets

How many physical assets do you buy that don't depreciate? Other than real estate (which isn't exactly appreciating in this economy), I'd say most of any physical object you buy will depreciate. Whether you buy a lawnmower, big screen TV, computer or a hammer, it will be worth less than what you paid for it as soon as you take it out of the store.

As for the lease versus buy decision, it all depends on how long you intend to keep your car. The OP asked if it's a good deal and I didn't think it was. I think he could do better on a lease deal.

I keep my cars well past the finance period. I still own my 2002 E46 325i. I did not have a single car payment for over 2 years after paying off the loan and minimal maintenance cost. It now makes a nice grocery getter and spare vehicle for me. If I had leased the E46 I would not have that option.

Originally Posted by Pete Teoh

No, I did not forget about the cost of my trip to Europe. I travel every year regardless of whether I'm buying a car, so any vacation cost is a sunk cost. It bears no relevance to the price of the car in my situation. If anything, it REDUCED the cost of my vacation since I did not have to pay for a rental car while I was there.


How many physical assets do you buy that don't depreciate? Other than real estate (which isn't exactly appreciating in this economy), I'd say most of any physical object you buy will depreciate. Whether you buy a lawnmower, big screen TV, computer or a hammer, it will be worth less than what you paid for it as soon as you take it out of the store.

As for the lease versus buy decision, it all depends on how long you intend to keep your car. The OP asked if it's a good deal and I didn't think it was. I think he could do better on a lease deal.

I keep my cars well past the finance period. I still own my 2002 E46 325i. I did not have a single car payment for over 2 years after paying off the loan and minimal maintenance cost. It now makes a nice grocery getter and spare vehicle for me. If I had leased the E46 I would not have that option.

Every lease thread has the "I own my car" guy who shows up and starts the same argument everytime.

You are right, most things depreciate in value. But most purchases are small compared to a car. A $1000 computer over 5 years in a miniscule cashflow for most people who are driving $40k + cars.

Cash is king right now, and the more of it you can hang on to, the better. With leasing, you have a known exposure from the start. I like having my risk known and manageble.

Originally Posted by FJUNO78

Every lease thread has the "I own my car" guy who shows up and starts the same argument everytime.

You are right, most things depreciate in value. But most purchases are small compared to a car. A $1000 computer over 5 years in a miniscule cashflow for most people who are driving $40k + cars.

Cash is king right now, and the more of it you can hang on to, the better. With leasing, you have a known exposure from the start. I like having my risk known and manageble.

How is buying a car any more of an unknown exposure compared to leasing? The terms of a car loan are fixed. I know how much money I put down. I know what my monthly payments will be and I know when those payments will stop. At that point in time I can decide to keep driving my car for a few years and therefore not have a car payment. The only certainty when leasing a car is that you will never stop paying for a one unless you decide to no longer drive one.

Originally Posted by Pete Teoh

How is buying a car any more of an unknown exposure compared to leasing? The terms of a car loan are fixed. I know how much money I put down. I know what my monthly payments will be and I know when those payments will stop. At that point in time I can decide to keep driving my car for a few years and therefore not have a car payment. The only certainty when leasing a car is that you will never stop paying for a one unless you decide to no longer drive one.

With a lease, I know exactly how much I will pay for the next 3 years. I have that money sitting in my savings account, earning interest, (albeit very low interest . At the end of the 3 years I am done. No surprises. If my situation changes, I already earmarked this money for my car payment.

With a finance, I have to lay out way more cash, to have a similiar payment. But here is the kicker, I never know how much I can get for the car if I need to sell it. What if it get's into an accident, and loses value?

The main reason I will never understand buying a BMW is because BMWFS subsidizes leases by providing artificially higher residuals. Where as if you purchase the car, your end value is a big question mark. In fact, when you go to trade it in, the dealership will try to lowball you. Selling it privately is going to be hard in this current economic enviornment. I mean who is going to take $25k out of their savings to drive a 3yr old car with only 1 year of warranty left?

If BMWFS decides to artifically support your trade in, I may consider buying. Until then, thank you BMW for supporting leases by propping up residual values.

Originally Posted by FJUNO78

With a lease, I know exactly how much I will pay for the next 3 years. I have that money sitting in my savings account, earning interest, (albeit very low interest . At the end of the 3 years I am done. No surprises. If my situation changes, I already earmarked this money for my car payment.

So what are you going to do at the end of the 3 years? Are you going to magically have a car appear in your possession so you no longer have to make any more lease payments? Are you going to walk to work instead? You only have certainty for 3 years, then it's anyone's guess what you'll be paying for the lease on another car.

Originally Posted by FJUNO78

With a finance, I have to lay out way more cash, to have a similiar payment. But here is the kicker, I never know how much I can get for the car if I need to sell it. What if it get's into an accident, and loses value?

I put down $5,000 for the 135i. I also own an E46 that I haven't had to make a single payment on for the past 2 years. I'm keeping the E46 but if I chose to sell it, I can easily get more than $5,000 for it to offset the down payment I made. If I had leased my E46 I would have not had such a long break in car payments.

Originally Posted by Pete Teoh

So what are you going to do at the end of the 3 years? Are you going to magically have a car appear in your possession so you no longer have to make any more lease payments? Are you going to walk to work instead? You only have certainty for 3 years, then it's anyone's guess what you'll be paying for the lease on another car.




I put down $5,000 for the 135i. I also own an E46 that I haven't had to make a single payment on for the past 2 years. I'm keeping the E46 but if I chose to sell it, I can easily get more than $5,000 for it to offset the down payment I made. If I had leased my E46 I would have not had such a long break in car payments.

At the end of three years, I am free to do whatever I want. If leasing still makes sense to me, I will do that. I can buy new, I can buy used... I will have a larger sum of cash left in savings waiting on the sidelines.

Also, if you only put 5k on a 135i, then your payments are going to be double that of a lease.

It's like Democrats and Republicans. We'll never agree. The people I know who lease cars are simply driving more car than they can afford, but then I live in LA, land of poseurs driving BMWs for $299/month lease deals. It's all about the lowest monthly payment for the highest bling value. Their lives are completely financed; they are pwnd by the bank. Some lose their jobs and then have nothing. They live paycheck to paycheck, payment to payment. The people I know who have money in the bank pay cash for their cars, or perhaps take advantage of super low interest rates. The thought of being stuck in a perpetual car payment, which is what happens when a lease ends, is scary to me.

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

It's like Democrats and Republicans. We'll never agree. The people I know who lease cars are simply driving more car than they can afford, but then I live in LA, land of poseurs driving BMWs for $299/month lease deals. It's all about the lowest monthly payment for the highest bling value. Their lives are completely financed; they are pwnd by the bank. Some lose their jobs and then have nothing. They live paycheck to paycheck, payment to payment. The people I know who have money in the bank pay cash for their cars, or perhaps take advantage of super low interest rates. The thought of being stuck in a perpetual car payment, which is what happens when a lease ends, is scary to me.

Hans, I live in NYC, and a 1 series or 3 series has zero "bling factor". (At least to me it doesn't) They are fun cars to drive, thats all.

If you lose your job, and your car payment is a problem, (whether you lease or finance) you are driving too much car.