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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

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  #26  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:33 PM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
That must be due to the much stronger blowers getting the air to all windows just that much faster. Remarkable.



Good to hear you have strong blowers.
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  #27  
Old 11-02-2009, 07:51 PM
div2 div2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madurodave View Post
I keep getting this image of the OP looking like Mr Magoo with big, fogged over glasses!
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2009, 07:56 PM
div2 div2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebound X3 View Post
Clearly the problem is between the steering wheel and the seat.
I suspect that the OP needs to put one of these on the back of his X3:

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  #29  
Old 11-02-2009, 08:04 PM
Sonoman707 Sonoman707 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppxyz View Post
more fun with x3

- get in car
- drive a couple of miles
- heat on auto
- all windows fog up instantly
- instant blindness, visibility = 0

yes, there is a nice windshield defogger. In the time it takes to defrost windows enough to see out (can't see through the passenger side window to pull over to the right shoulder or through the tailgate window either) the car would crash many times. Just sheer luck to have no traffic in either direction...sheer luck.

Coolant leak? Pano roof leaking? Vapor barrier leaking? Wet carpeting? People doing the steamy? Hot and heavy conversation over a long period of time? Rain? Really cold outside? Co2 spewing cows? Tapped the air recirc button.

The air recirc was on for less than a minute and the entire drive took under five.

Unbelievably dangerous. Why aren't the heat/recirc modes incompatible with each other? For that matter, i've had cars with air recirc and they didn't do this instant fog thing.

rtfm.
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  #30  
Old 11-02-2009, 08:06 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdx3 View Post
My car does not have the symptoms and problems that PPXYZ describes. My defrost works perfectly. It must be his or her specific car that has this problem.-pd.
I hate to be in the position of defending PPXYZ, but this problem did happen to me twice, and I'm still not sure what convergence of factors causes it.

Of course, I'm not using this minor problem as justification to trash my X3, but I still want to understand how it happens and how to avoid it, short of keeping AC on all the time.
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  #31  
Old 11-02-2009, 08:11 PM
Sonoman707 Sonoman707 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
I hate to be in the position of defending PPXYZ, but this problem did happen to me twice, and I'm still not sure what convergence of factors causes it.
Seriously folks... Get that little book called the Owner's Manual out and read it some evening.
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  #32  
Old 11-02-2009, 08:12 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
Keep in mind, assuming the system is in "fresh" airflow mode as per instructions, that it is the OUTSIDE incoming air that you're attempting to dehumidify and that is totally impossible below ~35F, which is why the A/C compressor is disabled by most manufacturers when the OAT declines to or below freezing.
(OAT = outside air temperature)

In order for the A/C to dehumidify the COLD 55F to 35F incoming airflow even a tiny smidgin it must CHILL that airflow down to its dewpoint, or very close thereby,
as it travels through the ~3 inches of evaporator core. Note that the LOWER the blower speed the more likely the airflow will be cooled to dewpoint allowing dehumidification to occur.

Now I am not, by any means, saying absolutely do not use the A/C to assist in defogging the interior surface of the windshield. In extremely humid, cool, not cold, conditions it can often be of some aid.

There is one caveat however. When you cycle the A/C off after using it, or it cycles off due to declining OAT, the previously condensed moisture will begin to evaporate into the incoming airstream. That, of itself, will oftentimes result in a sudden fogging over of the interior surface of the windshield, especially if you react to the initial slight fogging instinctively by again activating the defrost/defog/demist mode.

When you do that ALL of the HUMID airflow will be directed to the interior windshield surface and if you weren't blinded by windshield fogging before you sure will be now.

So, if the interior of your windshield begins to fog over, or is fogged over, turn the heat to max. In an automatic system the blower motor should follow, if not you will need to turn the blower to max also.
Supercourse, I'm sorry but can you translate this into X3 terms. Seems applicable but I'm not exactly sure what it all means. When I had the problem of a fogging windshield I turned the heat to 85F and turned on defrost. Cleared the windshield quickly, but for safety I pulled to the side of the road while it was clearing.
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  #33  
Old 11-02-2009, 09:42 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
Supercourse, I'm sorry but can you translate this into X3 terms. Seems applicable but I'm not exactly sure what it all means.
Not sure the Lexus quote is too useful - the point I was making was that it is not just BMWs that experience sudden fogging.

But some say that BMWs are worse than most for unpredictable fogging up.
Within the breed, the X3 (and X5) may be more susceptible because of relatively taller glass.

But I think we are agreed that the hard-to-pin-down cause relates to a change in outside temp. and humidity, and not something to do with the car itself.
(Other than the fact that the climate control system, whether automatic or manual, is unable to immediately rectify it.)

This excludes those situations where there is a fairly obvious cause, such as:
- journey just started, and occupants have wet shoes or clothing
- mid-trip, but just picked up talkative passenger from the gym
- older vehicle with a leaking heater core

The main point from the Lexus forum is that for both auto. and manual A/C systems, when the A/C cycles off, or is manually turned off, there is a risk of fogging.
And the wrong corrective action can lead to more moist air being blown at the glass and worse fogging rather than clearing.

So, it is important to keep in mind that although the car's climate system works to keep the cabin air dry,
particularly when in cooling mode, there has to be some moisture in the HVAC system waiting to escape.

If warm moist air is re-entering the cabin, you need to have a plan to counteract it.
Just opening a back window a coule of inches for about 10 seconds works for me.
Being familiar with the purpose of the red and blue rotary dial is one aspect of the solution.
Sorry, no real answer - just that it is not the OP's car but something that can affect everyone,
depending on their climate, and maybe what settings they use for their HVAC.
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  #34  
Old 11-02-2009, 11:31 PM
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Ishniknork Ishniknork is offline
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PPXYZ:

My Nissan 300ZX does the exact same thing when it rains in cool weather. BMW's are no worse than other cars.
Run the A/C from the get-go and problem solved.

Sheeesh....
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  #35  
Old 11-02-2009, 11:44 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
I hate to be in the position of defending PPXYZ, but this problem did happen to me twice, and I'm still not sure what convergence of factors causes it.

Of course, I'm not using this minor problem as justification to trash my X3, but I still want to understand how it happens and how to avoid it, short of keeping AC on all the time.
Oh JCA. Talk about cobwebs.


------------

Going uphill. OAT in the 50s. Not raining. One person in the car for maybe 4-5 minutes.

To the PM: Why not have AUTO heat + AC on + recirculation off as the standard. At the very least, put this
combo into the user manual with a big box around it and one of those exclamation marks.

Last edited by PPXYZ; 11-03-2009 at 12:15 AM.
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  #36  
Old 11-03-2009, 12:41 AM
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minicrazy592 minicrazy592 is offline
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I am tempted to remove him from my ignore list just so I can read his responses to everyone hating on him.
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  #37  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:13 AM
noego noego is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minicrazy592 View Post
I am tempted to remove him from my ignore list just so I can read his responses to everyone hating on him.
won't do any good. (s)he has not had this much attention since (s)he threw a temper tantrum in Walmart
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  #38  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:22 AM
ghpup ghpup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
Oh JCA. Talk about cobwebs.


------------

Going uphill. OAT in the 50s. Not raining. One person in the car for maybe 4-5 minutes.

To the PM: Why not have AUTO heat + AC on + recirculation off as the standard. At the very least, put this
combo into the user manual with a big box around it and one of those exclamation marks.
PPX, I had this issue in a 1982 Nissan Sentra when I lived in Norther CA during the mid to late 1980's, the fogging for me was actually on the outside of the window as my car passed through different tempurature areas. The car window was cooler than the outside temp and condensed the outside humidity. This still happens when I visit that area and I make certain to turn on windshield wipers and the defroster on high immediately. Occassionally this happens inside the car too, but it seems to pass more quickly on the interior. It takes forever to get rid of the condensation on the exterior of the car.
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  #39  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:38 AM
enamoured enamoured is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghpup View Post
PPX, I had this issue in a 1982 Nissan Sentra when I lived in Norther CA during the mid to late 1980's, the fogging for me was actually on the outside of the window as my car passed through different tempurature areas. The car window was cooler than the outside temp and condensed the outside humidity. This still happens when I visit that area and I make certain to turn on windshield wipers and the defroster on high immediately. Occassionally this happens inside the car too, but it seems to pass more quickly on the interior. It takes forever to get rid of the condensation on the exterior of the car.
At my office's underground parking lot, there is a warning sign that reads "WARNING: Windshields may fog instantly". The difference between parking lot and outside temperature can be as high as 25 C on a cold day and fogs up the windshield instantly from outside. The most notable thing I loved in X3 is that when I enter the underground garage on such days the windshield wiper come on automatically (provided I had them in rain sensing position and activated) and keeps the windshield clean while others have to sometimes stop on the ramp to turn on wipers.

I have never had any instant fogging on the inside or the outside, I make sure that I just press the "Auto" button when it begins to rain outside and I see traces of fog building up. Pressing the auto button turns on AC as well. Most of the times I drive with AC off in the cold weather here.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2009, 10:16 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghpup View Post
PPX, I had this issue in a 1982 Nissan Sentra when I lived in Norther CA during the mid to late 1980's, the fogging for me was actually on the outside of the window as my car passed through different tempurature areas. The car window was cooler than the outside temp and condensed the outside humidity. This still happens when I visit that area and I make certain to turn on windshield wipers and the defroster on high immediately. Occassionally this happens inside the car too, but it seems to pass more quickly on the interior. It takes forever to get rid of the condensation on the exterior of the car.

I have been able to recreate some of the fogging.

- Ambient temperature around 50 degrees
- HVAC is set to AUTO
- Set temperature for 75 degrees
- Shut off Snowflake button
- Turn recirc to always on

The inside of the windows begin to immediately fog up but more slowly. Maybe 10 seconds before vision is seriously impaired.

I suspect that the speed of fogging has something to do with just how damp it is outside and just how high the heat is initially cranked. Good to know what NOT to do in this car.

Still miss the rotary dials.
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  #41  
Old 11-07-2009, 02:45 PM
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This is pretty typical of most cars I have driven. A/C on dries the humidity in the air. This should not be a surprise to most!
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  #42  
Old 11-09-2009, 08:26 AM
T1T2GRE T1T2GRE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
I have been able to recreate some of the fogging.

- Ambient temperature around 50 degrees
- HVAC is set to AUTO
- Set temperature for 75 degrees
- Shut off Snowflake button
- Turn recirc to always on

The inside of the windows begin to immediately fog up but more slowly. Maybe 10 seconds before vision is seriously impaired.

I suspect that the speed of fogging has something to do with just how damp it is outside and just how high the heat is initially cranked. Good to know what NOT to do in this car.

Still miss the rotary dials.


In other news, I've been able to recreate some of the loss of power.

- My fuel gauge is near E.
- I keep driving.
- I wait for the alarm to sound for E.
- I keep driving.
- The car loses all power and stops.

The car begins to immediately slow down, but then more slowly. Maybe 10 seconds before power is seriously impaired.

I suspect that the loss of power is related to insufficient gas, which is most certainly a BMW design flaw.

Still miss the cheaper gas.


PPXYZ - please please please, for the love of all that is holy - please post somewhere else or STFU with all of these morose postings. I come here to get REAL info about REAL E83 problems. There are precious few posters on this sub-forum to make it worthwhile, and all you're doing is increasing the background noise.

Seriously.
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  #43  
Old 11-09-2009, 07:08 PM
div2 div2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t1t2gre View Post


in other news, i've been able to recreate some of the loss of power.

- my fuel gauge is near e.
- i keep driving.
- i wait for the alarm to sound for e.
- i keep driving.
- the car loses all power and stops.

The car begins to immediately slow down, but then more slowly. Maybe 10 seconds before power is seriously impaired.

I suspect that the loss of power is related to insufficient gas, which is most certainly a bmw design flaw.

Still miss the cheaper gas.


ppxyz - please please please, for the love of all that is holy - please post somewhere else or stfu with all of these morose postings. I come here to get real info about real e83 problems. There are precious few posters on this sub-forum to make it worthwhile, and all you're doing is increasing the background noise.

Seriously.
+2,000,000
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  #44  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:15 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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The front window/front door defroster also turns on the compressor at least
if the temp is above freezing. Although I have heard that it doesn't, the manual
says AUTO automatically turns it on as well.

Nice and peaceful on this thread.

Last edited by PPXYZ; 11-09-2009 at 10:28 PM.
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