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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 12-17-2008, 06:35 PM
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blz456 blz456 is offline
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Rough idle on cold start ups

Ok well I do know that this topic has been beaten to death but on every post that I've read, there is another problem related to the rough idle like codes or something. Every morning when I go to start my car it idle pretty rough for a few seconds then its fine. I have no codes or anything and it doesn't stall. The rpms do drop on the cold mornings and spike back up but again it doesn't stall but I'm pretty sure thats the vanos seals. Any suggestions on what the rough idle could be. The car is fine after the rough idle is gone.
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2008, 07:19 PM
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lild lild is offline
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i've been tring to find the reason for mine over the last yr. i have change everything i can think of, cps, pcv, new plugs, new o2's, new coil boot connectors, maf, cleaned the icv, air pump, control valve, one new cat, the other will be done soon. some of these i had codes for, some i didn't but my car has 200k miles so i did it for maitiance, i haven't changed the vanos seals, but don't really have sytoms, and the coil packs, so if you get if figured out let me know. one thing i can think of is intake manifold leak, but haven't tested yet. one thing i did notice is that every time i change something, the cold start idle was fine for a week.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Garrison5 Garrison5 is offline
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BLZ456, Sounds like it is worse on cold mornings than warm, correct?

If so, the vanos is a likely cause. Try this some morning and see if it runs smoother, disconnect the vanos intake solenoid electrical connector before starting the motor. If it runs smooth then your issue is the vanos. If not, then we'll eliminate that as the possible cause and move on.

If your not sure where the connection is go to this page and do a find on "vanos intake solenoid". http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm

The picture will help you find it.

Report back on what you find out.

Good Luck.
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2008, 08:32 PM
GDRAFT GDRAFT is offline
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I have a 1997 528i and have the EXACT problem....very "rough" on start up and smooths out and runs fine......especially when it's really cold.....I have 125K on the engine and just had a tune up done (way over priced) and still the same. If it sits for more than a few days, it seems worse......go figure...............any advice and/or help would be great
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:24 PM
Waveho Waveho is offline
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Valve cover gaskets; happens to me and mine is non-VANOS. My next big project for next month....
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2008, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Waveho View Post
Valve cover gaskets; happens to me and mine is non-VANOS. My next big project for next month....
That would have been my next guess if I eliminate the vanos. Would it be oil leaking on the spark plugs and the rough idle be the burning up the excess oil the leaked?
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2008, 05:39 AM
Waveho Waveho is offline
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Originally Posted by blz456 View Post
That would have been my next guess if I eliminate the vanos. Would it be oil leaking on the spark plugs and the rough idle be the burning up the excess oil the leaked?
This apparently exactly what can occur from what I've read. Also, loss of engine compression occurs due to gasket failure esp. when cold--gaskets re-expand when the engine is warmer so rough idle disappears. Oil will also seep down the sides of the engine causing a persistent burning smell in the cabin once the engine has warmed up.
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2008, 03:15 PM
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ztom ztom is offline
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>How would smooth start after disconnecting the vanos solenoid on a cold start point to a bad vanos? Said another way, why would a properly working solenoid cause a rough cold start?

>How would leaking in the valve cover seal result in oil getting into the plugs or cylinder? Would it just cause oil to leak out onto the engine block?
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2008, 03:24 PM
MLRJR MLRJR is offline
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mine does it too....my indy says to replace throttle body gaskets first. he says it is a common problem.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2008, 06:54 PM
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Yeah I plan to do the vanos and valve cover gaskets all at once. I probably won't get to tackle it until summer though. This weekend I will unplug the vanos in the morning and post what happens to the rpm spiking and see if the rough idle changes even though its probably not related.
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2008, 08:06 AM
Garrison5 Garrison5 is offline
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ztom, I don't know that I can give you the answers you need. It's been over a year since I came across this test and performed it. I found it on one of the BMW forums, but I don't know which one.

I suppose it could be that by taking the vanos out of the picture by disconnecting it faulty readings are not being sent due to bad seals. Don't know for sure.

What I can tell you is that when I did it I did not have the drop off in idle and rough running that occurred when the engine was cold. When I took the vanos apart the seals were hard as a rock and obviously not working as they should. When I replaced them the issue went away.

If we're lucky Poolman may chime in on this. He's pretty knowledgeable on this topic. You can also try the website I listed above. You could also try this forum http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/vanos and ask Rajaie your question. I'm certain he can explain this better than I.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2009, 01:57 PM
jwilkins jwilkins is offline
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Sorry to chime in so late on this string... I recently have been experiencing very rough starts on cold mornings; the motor revs up and then slows down to a point where it almost is going to die then revs again. It will continue to do this with less and less severity as the engine warms up. Once the engine is warm it runs fine. On another note that may or may not be related I have noticed when it is cold that in between shifts the engine will increase in revs??? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2009, 12:35 AM
artisthand artisthand is offline
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try this it's easy to do only 5 minutes and solved all your rough idle and check engine light problems on your (2000-2009) later or newer yes! all BMW E60, X3, X5, 325i,330i,335i,525i,528i,530i,535i,... check out the manifold adjuster Google this up.

That appears to have been the problem the whole time. This is what caused the check engine light and O2 sensor fault and misfire codes. listed below are the codes that are caused by a broken Intake Manifold Runner Valve/Adjuster Unit!!!

Ignore these codes after changing your broken or damage Intake Manifold Runner Valve/adjuster Unit these codes will be gone.

P0171 = Fuel Trim, Bank1 System too Lean

P0174 = Fuel Trim, Bank2 System too Lean

P0300 = Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected

P0313 = Misfire Detected Low Fuel Level

P0741 = Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Performance or Stuck Off

P1083 = Fuel Control Mixture Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

P1085 = Fuel Control Mixture Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)

P1342 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 1

P1346 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 3

P1348 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 4

P1350 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 5

P1352 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 6


The adjuster's part description on www.ecstuning.com
Air adjustment unit controls the path of the air in the intake manifold, allowing either a shorter or longer runner length. A common source of trouble causing low RPM sluggishness and accompanied by a clicking sound from the engine bay. The exact symptoms.

Location on driver's side. I already removed the two T40 bolts (upper right and lower middle.) Then simply pull the adjuster unit straight back out towards you. ( 5 minutes)
After removing the manifold adjuster you can also clean your idle control valve (ICV). It's easy to remove the ICV 12 minutes job and clean it with the Throttle Body & Air Intake Cleaner!!!








I can feel the difference in the acceleration and there's no slight hesitation or engine rough idle and after clearing the check engine light it will not come back on!!!
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:55 AM
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1bad540 1bad540 is offline
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Im going to try this, its been happening on my 328, no cel lights though.
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2009, 08:02 AM
armysweitzer armysweitzer is offline
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thats quite interesting, I have this same issue on my 1997 540. No cel, runs slightly rough until warm when it purs like a kitten. Lucky me no vanos!
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  #16  
Old 11-12-2009, 03:49 PM
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you suck, i don't have one of those on my 97'.
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2010, 10:12 PM
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ztom ztom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztom View Post
>How would smooth start after disconnecting the vanos solenoid on a cold start point to a bad vanos? Said another way, why would a properly working solenoid cause a rough cold start?

>How would leaking in the valve cover seal result in oil getting into the plugs or cylinder? Would it just cause oil to leak out onto the engine block?
Update - an answer to my own question on solenoid above - I found this in this forum..

"
On M52TU cars, 99-00, the failing vanos is manifesting cold weather cold engine start idle jolts and possible stall. I expect most 99-00 owners have experienced this symptom. On cold mornings the DME utilizes the vanos to help warm up the cats to bring them to operating temperature faster. When the vanos malfunctions the DME reacts badly and causes the idle jolts and possible stall. This scenario was addressed in the subsequent engines M54 and M56 with a software patch to address the DME reaction to the failing vanos. There is also apparently an update to the M52TU software that also addresses the symptom.
"
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  #18  
Old 01-08-2010, 05:54 AM
poolman poolman is online now
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Now I chime in--yes BMW did address the problem with some software, but as indicated above the PATCHED the problem. Thats all it is , a patch. When these seals start to fail, what some fail to
realize is that, the engine timeing starts to fail also. The Vanos seals help keep our engine's in proper timing. When the seals start to become hard and plastersize, the engine timing is out of spec, it's that simple.
Now, some may think that since they haven't had the shudder's and shake's that their car isn't experiencing this problem----thanks to the BMW PATCH, they don't realize how well their car can really run and that their car is not up to the timing spec that the engine was designed.
All of the Vanos engines manufactured by BMW need this fix--single and double---the double is far easier
than the single--- but thats the deisign and the bad luck of the single owners.

Last edited by poolman; 01-08-2010 at 06:44 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2010, 10:02 PM
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The problem is greater on the double than the single and in both cases only effects the low rpm torque. I did a single and it's not hard.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman View Post
Now I chime in--yes BMW did address the problem with some software, but as indicated above the PATCHED the problem. Thats all it is , a patch. When these seals start to fail, what some fail to
realize is that, the engine timeing starts to fail also. The Vanos seals help keep our engine's in proper timing. When the seals start to become hard and plastersize, the engine timing is out of spec, it's that simple.
Now, some may think that since they haven't had the shudder's and shake's that their car isn't experiencing this problem----thanks to the BMW PATCH, they don't realize how well their car can really run and that their car is not up to the timing spec that the engine was designed.
All of the Vanos engines manufactured by BMW need this fix--single and double---the double is far easier
than the single--- but thats the deisign and the bad luck of the single owners.
+1, this statement says it all: "they don't realize how well their car can really run". For many of us, we are the second or third e39 owner. Hence, we never experienced the original I6 performance. In addition, many have come over to e39s from inferior cars, creating the perception of excellent engine performance. If you have a VANOS e39, you really should do this upgrade.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:09 PM
Boxer19 Boxer19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bad540 View Post
Im going to try this, its been happening on my 328, no cel lights though.
Have you tried this yet?
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  #22  
Old 07-08-2010, 09:14 AM
2001 X5 4.4i 2001 X5 4.4i is offline
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code P0171/P0174

[QUOTE=Garrison5;3774314]BLZ456, Sounds like it is worse on cold mornings than warm, correct?

If so, the vanos is a likely cause. Try this some morning and see if it runs smoother, disconnect the vanos intake solenoid electrical connector before starting the motor. If it runs smooth then your issue is the vanos. If not, then we'll eliminate that as the possible cause and move on.

If your not sure where the connection is go to this page and do a find on "vanos intake solenoid". http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm

The picture will help you find it.

Report back on what you find out.

Good Luck.[

HEY GARRISON5!
CONCERNING YOUR COMMENT REGARDING THE: (VANOS INTAKE SOLENOID ELECTRICAL
I DID PERFORM TWO DIFFERENTS TEST ON IT, AND FOUND IT TO BE IN GOOD WORKING CONDITION. 1st, I DISCONNECTED THE POWER THAT GOES TO THE SOLENOID VALVE, MY ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON RIGHT AWAY AS SOON I DID THAT AND THREW OUT CODE: P0410 (MEANING SECONDARY AIR INJECTION SYSTEM VALVE A CIRCUIT MALFUNCTION)
2nd, I PULLED OUT THE LITTLE VACUUM HOSE THAT CONNECTED TO IT FROM THE (EGR VALVE) AND I HEARD A (WHISTLE NOISE) AIR COMING OUT, BY THE WAY I THINK IT'S WORKING.

THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE NOW IS: (P0171/P0174) I'VE CHANGED ALL 4 OXYGEN SENSORS, CLEANED AIR MASS METER, LOOK AROUND FOR CRACK/LEAKING BUT HAVEN'T FIND NOTHING YET AS TODAY: 07/08/10 ANY HELP WOULD BE HIGHTLY APPRECIATED!!!

2001 BMW X5 4.4i M62/E53
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  #23  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:13 AM
2001 X5 4.4i 2001 X5 4.4i is offline
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code P0171/P0174

[QUOTE=artisthand;4677262]try this it's easy to do only 5 minutes and solved all your rough idle and check engine light problems on your (2000-2009) later or newer yes! all BMW E60, X3, X5, 325i,330i,335i,525i,528i,530i,535i,... check out the manifold adjuster Google this up.

That appears to have been the problem the whole time. This is what caused the check engine light and O2 sensor fault and misfire codes. listed below are the codes that are caused by a broken Intake Manifold Runner Valve/Adjuster Unit!!!

Ignore these codes after changing your broken or damage Intake Manifold Runner Valve/adjuster Unit these codes will be gone.

P0171 = Fuel Trim, Bank1 System too Lean

P0174 = Fuel Trim, Bank2 System too Lean

P0300 = Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected

P0313 = Misfire Detected Low Fuel Level

P0741 = Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Performance or Stuck Off

P1083 = Fuel Control Mixture Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

P1085 = Fuel Control Mixture Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)

P1342 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 1

P1346 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 3

P1348 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 4

P1350 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 5

P1352 = Misfire During Start Cylinder 6


The adjuster's part description on www.ecstuning.com
Air adjustment unit controls the path of the air in the intake manifold, allowing either a shorter or longer runner length. A common source of trouble causing low RPM sluggishness and accompanied by a clicking sound from the engine bay. The exact symptoms.

Location on driver's side. I already removed the two T40 bolts (upper right and lower middle.) Then simply pull the adjuster unit straight back out towards you. ( 5 minutes)
After removing the manifold adjuster you can also clean your idle control valve (ICV). It's easy to remove the ICV 12 minutes job and clean it with the Throttle Body & Air Intake Cleaner!!!








I can feel the difference in the acceleration and there's no slight hesitation or engine rough idle and after clearing the check engine light it will not come back on!!!

HEY ARTISTHAND!
WHO EVER OWNED A (2000 THROUGH 2006 BMW X5 3.i THOSE TWO PICTURES POSTED WITH THE: Adjusting Unit for Intake Manifold(NAME DISA VALVE) ARE GREAT FOR THEM. HOWEVER! IT WAS NOT THE CASE FOR MY CAR BECAUSE I'VE READ FROM MANY SOURCES THAT: THIS PART DID NOT MADE FOR: BMW X5 4.4i 8 CYLINDER ENGINE.
UNFORTUNATELY MY TWO CODES: (P0171/P0174) SEEMS COMING FROM DIFFERENT LOCATIONS. AS A: 2001 X5 4.4i M62 ENGINE TYPE.
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  #24  
Old 03-23-2011, 06:34 PM
528i 0WN3R 528i 0WN3R is offline
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How the crap did you get the valve out of the middle?
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  #25  
Old 03-23-2011, 09:35 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 528i 0WN3R View Post
How the crap did you get the valve out of the middle?
There are diys with videos showing how to remove the flap here:
- DISA VALVE FLAP BREAKS: the DIfferenzierte SAuganlage ("Differential Air Intake") valve flap breaks (1), sometimes with parts sucked into the intake manifold (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) or the disa valve o-ring fails (1) (2) & where to get just the DISA valve o-ring (1) & how the DISA valve operates (1) (2) (3) & an example of how a broken DISA valve can ruin your engine (1) & how to test DISA operation (1) (2) or temporarily repair your DISA valve for free (1).

BTW, I added this wonderful link to the cold-engine misfire bestlink:

- How to identify all BMW computer-specific OBDII DTC diagnostic fault codes (1) & how to better understand the key EPA federal test procedure (FTP) concept of the BMW SES "drive cycle" (1) & how to diagnose a typical BMW E39 engine misfire (1) or a sporadic-temperature-change cold-engine intermittent misfire (1) (2) obtaining the pending or diagnostic trouble code (DTC) using free or freeware scans (1) [except in California or Hawaii (1) (2)] or the cheapest ODII scanner in the world (1) (2) or a better overall scanner (1) or the best diagnostic tools (1) (2) (3)
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