Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)

X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
The X5 SAV Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-28-2005, 03:38 PM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Angry Self leveling!!!! 0.78" in diff!!!

Well im glad we bought two X5 4,4 so i got something to compare...
I have had a feeling that my X didnt act right.
Dont remember for how long but it feels very "flintstone" to ride.
So i did compare it with our other X and that one feels better in all handling (not to much but you can feel a diffrent)

Today i did notice that the "good" one looks higher.
So i start to measure from the ground to the mudguard (think you call it that over there :-) well the car body over the wheels.
And yes, as i thought
When the car is in normal travel level its more than 0.78 inch diff!!!
In higher and lower level its about 0.40 inch diff!!!

I have no SELF LEVELING SUSP INACT message or any other error on the screen and i can use the controll button to higher and lower the car.

Will take it to the dealer tomorrow again...!!!!
Well i just wanted to tell, you not allways get an error when something is wrong.
Trust your instinct.

Last edited by Daniel B; 06-28-2005 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:43 AM
Steved Steved is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 193
Mein Auto: AMG ML63, M3 CSL, B7 RS4
Daniel, I've been spending some time on this issue (you will find a very long chronology of issues that I've had with the air suspension on my previous 4.8is - just check my previous postings).

On my current 4.8is I was asked to collect ride-height data by my dealer since I've noticed that the spring-rate of my suspension seems to vary during certain journeys. I measured the height from the floor to the bottom of the wheel arch with the car situated on a flat and level surface. When I measure my other cars (with steel springs) there is a variance of between 1-3mm in ride height across the four corners, whereas on my 4.8is there is a variance of up to 20mm (i.e. nearly an inch). The BMW DIS/MoDiC set-up guidelines allow for +/- 3mm and the usual BMW tolerance on a KDS machine is for up to 10mm variance, so I'm not sure if that implies a problem or not.

Here's a series of graphs showing my results. The datapoints were collected on different days, sometimes before a drive and other times after returning back home.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-29-2005, 07:08 AM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Thanks Steved!

I have read all the problems that you had with the suspension and its have been very useful post.

When i did compare the both X i did messure all around and at the same spot on both cars.
They both have stand still for two hours then we drove them about 5 km stop and let the engine running on both and messure them.
And there was a 20 mm diff at all spots from The "good" X compare with the "bad"

I mean should it really be a diff for about 20mm between the cars?

Last edited by Daniel B; 06-29-2005 at 07:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-29-2005, 07:16 AM
Dennis215 Dennis215 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Philadelphia
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 139
Mein Auto: "02" S1 4.4
Nice Data!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-29-2005, 11:04 AM
Steved Steved is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 193
Mein Auto: AMG ML63, M3 CSL, B7 RS4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel B
I mean should it really be a diff for about 20mm between the cars?
20mm does seem excessive to me. I have logged the problem with my own technical team at BMW UK and am awaiting an answer. When I hear from them I will let you know.

It could be a problem with the EHC (ride height control module) which is prone to error or perhaps a poor earth on one of the ride height control sensors (which are siutated near each spring bellow). It's too early to really say, but I'm keen to get an answer.

My concern in replacing the EHC is that virtually every 4.8is that I've driven with air suspension rides/handles differently to each other (I've driven 8 seperate cars) and I have never been able to gain an answer from BMW as to why. I am wary of replacing the EHC and finding that I end up with a softer (less sporting) drive, so I'm not going to change anything unless I hear a good technical explanation.
__________________

Last edited by Steved; 06-29-2005 at 11:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-29-2005, 11:54 AM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved
20mm does seem excessive to me. I have logged the problem with my own technical team at BMW UK and am awaiting an answer. When I hear from them I will let you know.

It could be a problem with the EHC (ride height control module) which is prone to error or perhaps a poor earth on one of the ride height control sensors (which are siutated near each spring bellow). It's too early to really say, but I'm keen to get an answer.

My concern in replacing the EHC is that virtually every 4.8is that I've driven with air suspension rides/handles differently to each other (I've driven 8 seperate cars) and I have never been able to gain an answer from BMW as to why. I am wary of replacing the EHC and finding that I end up with a softer (less sporting) drive, so I'm not going to change anything unless I hear a good technical explanation.
Thanks Again Steved!

I talked to my dealer today and they will have the car tomorrow they will change the amplifier cause the left backdoor treble speaker just produce "hiss" noise.
They will also change the steering gear (did post a video clip of that problem earlier)
And some other annoying problem like whining noise at some rpms etc etc.

I really appreciate your answers and knowledge it really make it more easy for us "novice" owner.

Will keep you posted how it ends up.

Once again thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-01-2005, 12:22 PM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Got it back today (as a loaner i got an 535d, i know what my next car will be)...
They didnt find anything wrong with parts but they adjust the ride height.
The car feels better know.
They actually think that the correct ride height not was set from the factory!!!

But i still feel some small annoying vibration on most roads (maybe its how this car acts)
Will keep my eyes on the height and compare it with our other X.

Anyone else experience small annoying vibration on ?

Once again Steved, thanks for all help!

Daniel,
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-03-2005, 01:39 PM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Sorry to say, but the X will go back to the dealer tomorrow!!!
Didnt check enough when i got it but i do hear anyoing noise from the left front shock (crack, creak also from the rear but not sure its the shock that sounds there ) and the car feels even more "flintstone" - extrem firm now...
So i did compare it with out other X and the front height was about 5 cm!!! higher and you can see the diffrent when you watch the car from the side, the car looks like it sit on its back.
The rear had the same height on both cars.

Steved, is there no automatic system at the dealer that should set the right height all around or can they set the height to whatever they want induvidual at the front and rear???

Did a check.
Drove a little bit stopped the car let the enigine run raised it to offroad, lower it to acces and then back to normal, and i got this.

Normal ride
RF 83cm LF82.5cm RR79cm LR79.5

Access height
RF81 LF81 RR77 LR77.5

You can see in the pic how the car height looks and where i did messaure.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	height.jpg
Views:	407
Size:	72.2 KB
ID:	53178  

Last edited by Daniel B; 07-03-2005 at 02:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-04-2005, 02:02 PM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Will update myself here.
Im happy today and i got a new car!
Well its the same car but it feels like it never ever have done!

This is the case.
I went back to the dealer today to get the ride height at right level and i did get a new mechanic.
He saw right away that the height was way out and i also told him that the car handles very bad and extremly firm.

Then he told me that its very important that they lower the car from a car lift very very slow.
Why?
Well if the car has been raised on a car lift with the wheels "hanging" the level system will not work correct if they then lower the car to fast and system will be to hard and way out of working correct.
So before he did adjust the height he did lift the up car and let the wheels hang and he lower it bit by bit and this took about 10 min and as he said its very important to do it slow and bit by bit.
Then he set up the right height.
And i can tell you, this is a total diffrent car to drive.
Now i feel how the shocks works right and the car is smooth but extrem nice road feeling!

Im sure that they lower my car to fast when it first arrived to the dealer and they did the delivery service.

He told me that every time the car will be lift with wheels hanging you must do the same slow lowering, for ex when you change wheels.

Knock on wood, now this is a dream car to drive.

Just wanna let you know cause i have never heard of this but it for sure make sense.

Last edited by Daniel B; 07-05-2005 at 01:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-06-2005, 11:35 AM
Steved Steved is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 193
Mein Auto: AMG ML63, M3 CSL, B7 RS4
Interesting Daniel, thanks for keeping the thread up-to-date. As you discovered for yourself the BMW dealer can pretty much set the ride height to whatever they choose, however there are specs that they have to meet (otherwise BMW wouldn't be too happy). Each wheel is set independently so there is room for 'human' error.

As for lowering the car slowly, that's interesting. In theory it shouldn't make any difference. The suspension system knows when the car is off the ground and stops trying to compensate. When the car is lowered it then re-establishes the correct ride height (using the baseline values stored in the control unit's memory). It shouldn't make any difference how fast/slow it is lowered (in theory) but maybe it does..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:44 PM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Thanks Steved.

Im back with the same problem after one day...
Now the car feels like it did before!
Will get it back to the dealer next week (im on holiday now and i need the car)
Im sure your right, the system would for sure control the ride if its work as it should.
Will call the dealer tomorow and tell them about the problem and also get them to order all the parts thats involved with the sussp. system.
I cant blame my dealer, they have treat everything as a good dealer should so far and im sure they will solve the problem.
Its strange, cause when i left them after the last visit the car did feel perfect, so i guess there is a problem with the EHC.
Now the car feel to firm and "flintstone" again.
Will keep you update late next week.

Take care.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-07-2005, 02:59 AM
Steved Steved is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 193
Mein Auto: AMG ML63, M3 CSL, B7 RS4
Daniel, my car goes in to the dealer next week for a few tests. There are several areas to look at; firstly the voltage drop across the ride height sensors (these are very sensitive and even the slightest difficulty with a faulty connection can confuse the EHC unit), sometimes just cleaning the connection can sort things, other times it's worth replacing these ride height sensors (they're relatively cheap), otherwise as a last resort the EHC may need replacing. Hall effect sensors are used to detect ride height changes and these produce a varying voltage input to the (EHC) control module, if the earthing of these sensors isn't perfect then this voltage drop will produce a false input for the EHC.

My current issue is that if I lower my car to 'Access' then drive away it takes time (too long) for the suspension to adjust to the 'Normal' ride height, the roll stiffness in the meanwhile is too soft allowing too much body roll, whereas if I just leave it in 'Normal' all the time then the roll stiffness stays more consistent with virtually no body roll. I would like a solution since otherwise I cannot take benefit of the adjustable ride height feature.

I'm also trying to get an answer to the question of what is an acceptable vairance in ride height between the four corners of the car. Will let you know if I find anything out.
__________________

Last edited by Steved; 07-07-2005 at 03:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-07-2005, 04:06 AM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Thanks Steved,

Will take your post with me to the dealer and let them check up thoose things.

Will keep you update,
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-07-2005, 04:24 AM
LVR's Avatar
LVR LVR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 100
Mein Auto: X5 4.8is Sterling Grey
By 'access height' do you mean the car lowers when it is switched off, then raises when you start it up?

Mine seems to have more body roll than the one I drove at the dealership. Some days I can punt it around a bend and it sits and tracks so well.... other days I go around a slow corner and feel like I have to hang on to the wheel.
__________________
2005 X5 4.8
2003 X5 3.0 Sports
1986 MHDT 05 VK Group A Race Car (Brock/Moffat)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-11-2005, 06:16 AM
Steved Steved is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 193
Mein Auto: AMG ML63, M3 CSL, B7 RS4
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVR
By 'access height' do you mean the car lowers when it is switched off, then raises when you start it up?

Mine seems to have more body roll than the one I drove at the dealership. Some days I can punt it around a bend and it sits and tracks so well.... other days I go around a slow corner and feel like I have to hang on to the wheel.
I keep trying to explain that 'feature' to the BMW technicians but they always seem surprised. Do they ever drive their own cars?

I'm taking my 4.8is in on wednesday to check the voltage readings on the ride-height sensors, if they can find something then fine, otherwise I will just accept the fact that the suspension changes from firm to less-firm on occasion.

p.s. the average driver probably wouldn't notice any changes.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-11-2005, 02:40 PM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
Talked to my dealer last friday and also gave them the post from you Steved.
They did order a new EHC and height sensors without no discussion (i must say that i cant blame my dealer they have been perfect in this case)
So next tuesday they will change the EHC and height sensors all around to see if its solve the problem.

But the problem is for sure random somedays the car feels perfect then the next day the problem is back. When the problem is back i feel small vibrations in the steering wheel at the highways and also at slow speed at bumps etc the car ride is way to firm.
Well its hard to explain....

Will keep you updated.

Thanks once again Steved.

Last edited by Daniel B; 07-11-2005 at 03:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-02-2005, 02:04 PM
Daniel B Daniel B is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sweden
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 363
Mein Auto: X6 3.5d
At friday last week i got my X back and they have change all the sensors and the EHC module.
Well i was not shure if i could feel any diffrens.
On sunday evening i was standing beside our other X5 with selfleveling and found out that the one i drive was way much lower.
So i tried to push the level button to see the diff. in offroad normal and "situp" mode.
Well, the thing didnt work as it should i had to hold the button in to get the car up and down as soon as i did release the button the car stop to change.
And when i walk around the car i did see that my left rear side was all down and did not move at all.
So the came and pic up the car.
Today i got it back and i did ask what the problem was.
Then i was told that when they change the sensors they put them back exact as the ones that was mounted at the factory in US.
Then when this happend they finaly found out that my left rear sensor has allways been mount in the wrong direction!!!
If so the system has never work as it should i was told.

One more thing. I could drive around without getting the "selflevel susp inactive" message
It finaly came on when i was messing around with the up and down button not when i was driving with the left side all down!

Another strange thing is that i have been able to lower and raise the car without any problem with the first sensor mounted in the wrong direction beffore this happend.

Knock on wood i notice a huge diff. in car handling now!
Give me some more days to really test the handling and i will update you in handling notice.

I guess if they could mount one of my sensors wrong im sure there must be more cars out there...

Why dont they build the X in Germany

Last edited by Daniel B; 08-02-2005 at 02:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-02-2005, 06:48 PM
SpeedFreak!'s Avatar
SpeedFreak! SpeedFreak! is offline
Certified Organic Fanatic
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,507
Send a message via AIM to SpeedFreak!
Mein Auto: 2004 330i ZHP & 2005 X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel B
...
Why dont they build the X in Germany

OK... so that last bit really hurts... Should we list all the bugs from the 5, 6, and "gulp" 7?


Just messin' with you... hey... while on the ride adjustment topic... do either of you two gentlemen (who should get a room... I might add) ...know why the system is so limited. Why can't I push a button... lower my X5 to an aggressive stance and leave it there while I rail around corners? Why must this damn thing insist on raising to a "normal" level... damn it... when I lower it... I want it to stay lowered. I know that's how the system is set up... but WHY?

I've also heard that you could lower an X5 with this option... but must do it through the ride height system. Have you heard of any success doing this... or any failures? Can you stop or override the part of the system that changes the ride height upon reaching certain speeds? How about a "Track Height"... a "Sport Height"... and an "Off-Road Height"... those would be my choices...

You fella's sound as though you may have more experience with this Option then most techs... any thoughts?!
__________________

Yeah... so I'm a junkie. Isn't that Step One?!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-16-2005, 06:44 AM
Steved Steved is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 193
Mein Auto: AMG ML63, M3 CSL, B7 RS4
I would hazard a guess and suggest that the reason BMW didn't provide a system that can be held at the access setting may be twofold; firstly due to the X5's exaggerated negative rear camber it may cause too much of a change in geometry balance if the ride was lowered 30mm (without other changes being made). Seciondly the dampers which on most air suspension systems are adjustable, are not in the X5's case and for the front struts the dampers are incased in the air bellow unit (so not an option to upgrade them). The Air suspension for the X5 was designed from the E39 5 series and therefore is a very early generation system. BMW may not have envisaged it's twin-axle use on the X5 and therefore didn't engineer the suspenion geometry or choice of damper units to suit a varying ride height.

I suspect that 'future' systems, perhaps on the next X5 will have the kind of functionality that we would like now. Just look at the M3/M5/M6 with their 11 programmable gear settings and a host of other user defined settings and note that BMW isn't exactly reluctant to let it's customers choose how they want a car to feel. It's a pity they didn't bring forward some of this technology to improve the X5 when it was facelifted in 2004.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-16-2005, 07:25 AM
LVR's Avatar
LVR LVR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 100
Mein Auto: X5 4.8is Sterling Grey
Can anyone tell me how the air suspension is 'supposed' to operate in the 4.8's?

I just drove down to the hardware and when I was walking back to my car, I saw that the rear supension was lowered and the car had a 'nose up' attitude.

As soon as I started it, the rear came back up. Is this something to do with self leveling or load adjustment? (I didn't change the load) or something weirder?

It has happened before, except it did not come back up until I stopped at a set of lights.

Your advice and thoughts appreciated..........
__________________
2005 X5 4.8
2003 X5 3.0 Sports
1986 MHDT 05 VK Group A Race Car (Brock/Moffat)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-10-2009, 07:08 AM
Nayeema Nayeema is offline
Registered User
Location: Mississauga
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1
Mein Auto: BMW X5
Exclamation Help!

I have an X5 also but I just cant seem to figure out why my back will go down, and not come back up on its own. I have to use the switch to lift it everytime and its a pain in the butt, because when I am on the highway, after a few bumps it lowers itself again and gets annoyingly low while driving long distances...what is wrong ? What do I do to fix it ? I dont want to take it to the dealer if I can fix it myself or wiht my local mechanic...HELP!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diff Swap: you are invited JonM General BMW 33 04-05-2012 03:51 PM
Why doesn't a 3.15 diff come standard with the 330SP or 330ZHP? Moderato 3 Series / 4 Series 10 12-13-2004 06:54 PM
Understanding the effects of changing the rear diff ratio (long, with charts) rumratt 3 Series / 4 Series 41 12-12-2004 04:45 PM
Used E30 3.73 LS Diff Install for M Coupe--Pix + Notes yetiboy E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002) 48 06-19-2004 08:32 PM
3.46 installed JonM E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002) 15 12-11-2003 11:54 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms