Quick Guide to Oil in Your E36

Originally Posted by jeffro3000

A common misconception. Try again.

See explanation above. It's a simplified approach.

Originally Posted by jeffro3000

Sounds like you've done a lot of research finding the "proper" OCI for synthetics. Mind if i see some of your data pointing to 6-8k? I've been doing similar research with oil analyses on samples from my M52TU to try to find the optimum interval, but have yet to come up with a conclusion.

No, I haven't done in depth person research on my own vehicles about the exact proper interval. I'm basing it off a safe interval that's generally accepted - with older engines like these, there's no reason to risk metallic particles which could be more prevalent in high mile engines causing damage because they've been in the oil for 15,000 miles. 6-8k is reasonable, safe, and not too overkill. Unfortunately I don't have time to do my own research on every last thing - if we all did that, we wouldn't have much technological progress at all.

Originally Posted by jeffro3000

Also, i'd like to point out one of your logical fallacies here: If LL-01 oils are not necessary for shorter changes, then are you saying that they are necessary for 15k changes? If so, whats the difference between using a lower quality synthetic and changing it more often, and using an LL-01 and changing it less often?

I'll return the favor - LL-spec doesn't necessarily denote a higher quality oil. It simply denotes that BMW has tested the oil and found it not to break down early. The TISB's specifically mention LL-specs being for longer OCI's, not superior lubrication properties. Just that they'll retain their lubrication properties longer. So hypothetically, you could have an oil with superior lubrication qualities that loses effectiveness at 6,000 miles, and an oil with lesser lubrication qualities that retains the original qualities till 20,000 miles; the 20,000 mile oil could end up meeting LL-spec and the 6,000 mile not. Does that mean the 20,000 mile oil is the better oil if you always change at 5,000 miles anyway? I'm not saying that's always true or always false, but it's possible.

Originally Posted by jeffro3000

Personally, i'll use a LL-01 that has been through the approval process and known to be within spec for my engine. High quality oil is high quality oil, no matter how long you leave it in. Saying that the approval is not necessary is a very ignorant statement to make. The ACEA, SAE, BMW, etc. develop standards like these for a reason.

You are welcome to use LL-01 spec oils. I didn't say having some sort of approval was unnecessary, I said BMW LL approval was unnecessary. The BMW TISB agrees with me, as does the manual. I should note that since both LL-98 and LL-01 had not been developed until the E36 was nearly phased out, it would be absurd to say that LL-spec oil is necessary for our cars. Would you not agree?

Originally Posted by jeffro3000

Sorry phantom. It sounds like you are fairly knowledgeable about E36s, but apparently oil is not your forte. I suggest you so some reading up on BITOG and gain some understanding of some of the basic characteristics of oils, and how these characteristics contribute to it being LL-01 or not (or any other standard).

Touché. I have done some BITOG reading, but I'm not an "expert" by any means. I do have a general knowledge of the subject, though.

All the BMW meistermechanics I knew in Germany swore by Castrol oils.

very much needed thread thanks alot man

Call me crazy, but I just put in WallMart Super Tech 5w-30 synthetic in my 94 325i with 63,000 on the clock. just bought it when it had 61,000 and don't know what oil was used but seems it was always serviced at a BMW dealer. Have used Super tech oils for some time, in hard driven snowmobiles and a WRX Suberu etc. with very good results. These oils meet the highest BIA (for 2 cycle oils) and API SF rating etc. SINCE BMW now says 5w-30 is good, why not ? Actually Super Tech is from Penzoil, maybe not a Mobil one , but not an off brand either. The Subie engine with turbo and 230 hp is certainly higher stressed than the BMW naturally asperated 6 so I can't believe there will be a problem. If so will let you know, if not will spend the substaintial savings on other fun goodies !

Cheap Trick

I've been using Walmart brand oil in my Dodge 1500 conversion van, Nissan sentra, and my 328I and have concluded over the years all you need to do is have a regular schedule oil change.

This is a great write up thanks for the info!!!

I have done extensive research on oils, and I used to race motocross with my sons that were sponsered by Richmond Kawasaki in the early 90's.
I always believed in regular oil changes in the cars and trucks I have owned.

But let me tell you a story.
We were racing in the Golden State Nationals and I was talking to another parent that was working for Neo Oil in L.A.
They were running a couple of Pro bikes (they were two stroke motors back then that turned 12-14,000 rpm) on their Neo synthetic oil using a mixing ratio of 100 to one. Normally, I was using 32 to one.
They had no siezure problems and ran 100 to one ratio just to prove how much better their oil was than the regular racing oils.
I had a KX-125 my oldest son was racing that had seized that day, and we realized the jetting was too lean for Glen Helen, CA . I switched pistons, put in a 40 to one mix and raced the rest of the year without seizing the motor. Never changed the jetting either.

Then I changed all my vehicles over to synthetic. I buy whatever is on sale for my four wheel vehicles as long as it is full synthetic. I'm using Royal Purple right now because it was on sale at Kragen A/P last year.

BMW recommends Castrol synthetic. It's stamped into the radiator cover on my '03 325ci.
I still say changing your oil is more important on cars than what type of oil you use, unless you are like me and insist on full synthetic now. I am now wondering why my '03 325 oil change warning light is every 15,000 miles. Seems too long for me, so I do it every 10,000. So far.

Sorry to tell you.. Royal Purple is not a true full synthetic.

Im using Castrol EDGE and its pretty good. Im using 10W30, next oil change will prolly be 10W40 or somewhere around there

Originally Posted by Corey Milne

Sorry to tell you.. Royal Purple is not a true full synthetic.

It's a Group IV, that puts it in the true synthetic category, along with Mobil1 and some of the Castrols, and that's about it.

Or so it is labelled... Upon further research I found there really is no true full synthetic.

Anyone here ever seen this?

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles

Based on this I'm switching to 0w30.

Any thoughts?

I've read it, and it's an excellent article. Running a 0-weight is fine for cold conditions, but you have a problem when your car gets to operating temperature if you're running 30 weight, that's far too thin. That article is based off Ferrari's specs. 30 weight on a daily driven 575 Maranello might be great, but 0-30 IS too thin for the M50/52 engine. The 0 isn't the problem, the 30 is. He's comparing differences between 0-30 and 10-30. If we were talking about 15-50 or 20-50 compared to 0-50, sure, you can run the 0-50 just fine. But no, 0-30 is not an acceptable oil for an M50/52 engine'd E36.

One thing I'm not clear about***********: under normal operating conditions and at operating temperature, the oil temp should be the same regardless of the ambient temperature (if it does, the cooling system is at fault). So what's the difference between a 30-weight at 10 and 100 degrees Fahrenheit?

also, isn't 0w-X inherently better in any climate than 10w-X because of the reduction in thickness at sub-operating temps

btw, I don't know what those asterisks are doing there

This board puts asterisks in retarted places sometimes. It doesn't like ellipses and colons, dunno why.

I agree that the oil temperature should be fairly constant regarding ambient temperature, however, BMW and many other makes specify various grades for various ambient temperatures. I tend to follow the line of reasoning that they wouldn't have gone to the work of determining the best grade and wasting a full 2 pages in the manual spelling it out if there weren't some reason, even if it's not readily apparent to us.

As for 0-X vs 10-X, if the X's are kept constant (ie, 0-30 vs 10-30), yes, theoretically the 0 should be the preferable one. If you're going with 0-30 vs 15-50, then no, just because it starts with 0 doesn't make it the better choice.

Okay, well I'm going to ask BMW and see what their reasons are.

I'll post up the reply if it's of any substance.

By BMW, do you mean emailing BMWNA or asking a local dealer? If it's BMWNA I'd be very interested. If it's the local dealer, trust me when I say that they don't know crap.

Originally Posted by e36 phantom

if it's the local dealer, trust me when i say that they don't know crap.

+1

BMWNA.
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ntactarep.aspx

I got this:

Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding oil recommendations and viscosity. We appreciate your inquiry.

Viscosity is a measure of an oil's flow rating, which can be affected by ambient temperatures. In many situations, ambient temperatures may not be extreme enough to warrant a different viscosity compared to a normal oil recommendation.

If you require a specific oil recommendation or would like to confirm if you should use a different viscosity due to your location, we suggest contacting your nearest BMW center. Should you need it, you will find a complete listing of authorized centers, categorized by name, state, or zip code, on our website at www.bmwusa.com/dealers.

If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for contacting BMW.

which is useless, so I called BMWNA, and all they know is is in their "technical resource database," which is useless, and their engineers are in germany, so I got nothing.
Maybe ill try bobistheoilguy.

EDIT: Oh, and the only thing they said on the phone is that thinner oil can increase oil consumption, which is more of a bandaid than a fix.

You would think that the information that they have available at BMWNA would be better. I mean they have to be paying those people decent money, but all the do is refer to the database?

QW, the database is almost assuredly info BMW developed, but the reps appear to be too lazy to look it up.

Sorry about the dead end with BMW, Terry. I'll try asking my mechanic on Monday if he has any info on why that may be. They do BMW/Mercedes only.

eh, she seemed to be looking for a while. besides, i dont imagine stuff as technical as the question I asked would be a common question, so I'm not that surprised. Although i did think they might have a tech expert somewhere in the States.

Originally Posted by MrAbbs325is

Does anyone on here use Amsoil? I use Full synth euro formula 10w 40 in the summer... Am I right to use this oil?

Yes indeed! The two synthetic oils with the longest history of development are Amsoil (dates to shortly after the Korean war) and Mobil 1. Both are excellent. Redline is another outstanding synthetic (possibly the best, and more expensive than either Amsoil or Mobil 1) which has been around longer than Royal Purple.

I figure that going with one of the oils which has the longest history of research and development makes a lot of sense; I have used Amsoil and Mobil 1 since 1977 with no problems.

Personally, having done a lot of research, my preference is for Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Redline...but Mobil 1 is the least expensive and most readily available, since it is carried by mass marketers like Wally World. I have dissected a number of filters and examined them, and as a result consider Amsoil filters to be the very best, but that's another argument.

I don't understand why people are confused about what weight oil to run. RTFM...or just check the chart that was so kindly included in the original post in this thread. That is really all you need to know. People obsess over motor oil MUCH too much. It's just oil, and all major brand modern motor oils are excellent. Use synthetic, keep it clean, change it at appropriate intervals and don't worry about it.

I emailed bimmerworld:

Why would a different viscosity be recommended for different climates (like 5w40 for cold and 10w40 for everything else)? I understand that a 5W is necessary for cold starts in cold climates, but I dont understand why a 0W wouldn't be better in all climates since a cold oil is inherently too thick no matter how many viscosity improvers are added and at temperature the viscosity is effectively the same for a 0W40 or 15W40. Also, since most engine wear occurs when the engine is cold, wouldn't it be more beneficial to use 0W30 instead of 0W40 to get better lubrication?
By the way, I have an M52, which is why is used those as examples. And my info came from here if you're interested in spending the time reading.

Thanks for your time,
Terry

and got this:

Terry,



To get the best answers to your questions I would suggest calling Red Line Lubricants directly considering their abundant knowledge and decades of experience.



Our local BMW dealer uses 15W40 oil for the M52 engine and 5W30 for the later M52TU engines. These viscosities are approved by BMW and will work fine for most drivers in a majority of climates. BMW has never suggested a 0W-XX oil for any application I am aware. As a Red Line dealer, we consulted with them and their decades of knowledge to give better options for our customers based on their climate and use. These viscosities are what Red Line and BimmerWorld agree are the best viscosities for a given climate and condition.



Oil lubrication properties can be argued and discussed for hours on end and have been for decades, especially on public automotive forums. I'm sure the forum you've provided has some interesting insights to lubrication but we base our knowledge on decades of Red Line oil development and BimmerWorld's accumulated knowledge and racing.



If you adhere to our advised viscosities and oil change intervals your engine will last as long as BMW intended and there will be much less time spent on public forums and more time driving!



Thanks,

Brian Fowler

http://www.bimmerworld.com

http://www.bimmerworldracing.com

http://www.powerflexusa.com

Race Proven BMW Performance

877.639.9648

So I called Red Line, which i probably should've done earlier, and found out some interesting information. Basically, Dave said that he wouldn't bother running a 0w40 instead of a 10w40 unless he was really concerned with the cold running properties of the oil, not to mention that there is only about an 8% reduction in viscosity at 40C for the 0w compared to the 10w. Plus the 10w40 doesn't have any VIIs, although he said theirs don't have shearing issues so it doesn't make too much of a difference.
I then asked about a 0w30 and he said that would be reasonable, although there might be some sacrifice in protection under high load (I think that might have to do with oil pressure at high engine speeds but I didn't ask.). And since the vast majority of my driving occurs in trips that last less than 30 minutes, I think the 0w30 will probably be my best choice in the future.
He also mentioned dealers putting in 5w30 for cars where the recommendation calls for a 40 with no problems arising. (not exactly in those words)

I have a couple more questions though, so I'll probably call again tomorrow.

And here's the product info sheet: http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...uct%20Data.pdf