Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 05-24-2010, 07:08 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
bimmerpartswholesale.com

bimmerpartswholesale.com has the same horror story as did alloembmwparts.com so they must be the same company.

- They sell PBR Metal Master pads at a different price than PBR Ultimates even though we're told they're the same thing.
- They sell PBR Deluxe pads but I can't tell if that's the same or different from Axxis Deluxe Advanced or Axxis Deluxe Plus pads
- So, strike yet another off the list.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-24-2010, 07:10 PM
Fudman's Avatar
Fudman Fudman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sudbury, MA
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,166
Mein Auto: '02 530i Sport auto
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
That's what I want. Low dust, OEM performance!
I think that is exactly the point. You cannot get OEM performance without dust. And you cannot get a dustfree pad without sacrificing some level of "performance" (or feel). It is all about design tradeoffs in the materials selected. I am sure there are other tradeoffs (fade, durability, wear on rotors, etc.) but braking feel and dust are probably the two most important to most street drivers.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-24-2010, 07:28 PM
540 M-Sport's Avatar
540 M-Sport 540 M-Sport is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,922
Mein Auto: 01' 540 M-Sport cdn, F355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
I think that is exactly the point. You cannot get OEM performance without dust. And you cannot get a dustfree pad without sacrificing some level of "performance" (or feel). It is all about design tradeoffs in the materials selected. I am sure there are other tradeoffs (fade, durability, wear on rotors, etc.) but braking feel and dust are probably the two most important to most street drivers.
+1. I have found the Axxis Deluxe Plus from Dave Z were VERY CLOSE to oem in performance, the only trade off was slight softer pedal feel. But man o man, like 80% less dust. More recently I switched to Porterfield R4S which is a carbon/kevlar pad. Similar pedal feel and equal or better braking feel to oem, but the reduction in dust was only about 50%...so better than oem, but not better than Axxis Deluxe Plus.

On my next go around, I will either use Axxis Deluxe Advanced or Akebono Euro Ceramic. I have had a couple friends who are racer/track rats, and they swear by Akebono for "daily driver" cars. To me the trade offs are worth less messy dust on my wheels...
__________________
Factory M-Sport package with factory installed M-tech bumpers, factory Bluetooth, factory M-Audio 10" dual voice coil subs, Homelink, M5 rear stabilizer bar, Bilstein B14 PSS coil overs, Stop Tech ss brake lines, Akebono Euro Ceramic brake pads, oem Brembo and Zimmerman rotors, Dinan Stage 1 software, Strong Strut front upper stress bar.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:11 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
I have found the Axxis Deluxe Plus from Dave Z were VERY CLOSE to oem in performance
I'm OK with tradeoffs. Even the original Jurid/Textars I put on last time had tradeoffs. This time I really want to try the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads!

The hard part is finding the top-3 suppliers.

Moving on down the list, I am now on the 15th supplier (alphabetically) since these 14 suppliers DO NOT apparently sell Axxis Deluxe Advanced front pads for the 2002 525i:
- apexperformance.net
- buybrakes.com
- circlebmw
- crevier
- crownbmw
- eactuning.com
- getbmwparts.com
- KO Performance
- Pacific BMW
- Pelican
- Zeckhausen (? ... certainly not from their web site)
- alloembmwparts.com (see detail in previous threads)
- bavarian autosport (see detail in previous threads)
- bimmerpartswholesale.com (see detail in previous threads)

So, I now will check out the following suppliers left on the list:
- bmaparts.com
- bmwautobodypartstore.com
- catalog.brakewarehouse.com
- catalog.worldpac.com
- europartsdirect.com
- performance.importrp.com
- ***********.com
- Turner Motorsport ($54 + $10 shipping = $64 telephone price only)
- Zeckausen (?, I need to call in the am tomorrow as it's not on the web)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:29 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
bmaparts.com

The bmaparts.com front brake pad sets are listed here ...
- They carry Mintex & PBR but you have to dig for which ones
- Let's take the PBR first - they say "organic", so they probably can't be the ceramic non-asbestos organic "Axxis/PBR Deluxe Advanced" pads.
- Likewise with the Mintex, except they don't even say WHAT they are made of

Given the paucity of information at this web site, we have to strike yet another (the 15th supplier) off the list for finding the top 3 Axxis Deluxe Advanced suppliers on the net.

After 15 dead ends, I'm beginning to wish I had started looking for a more common pad!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bma.gif
Views:	509
Size:	99.7 KB
ID:	231503  
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:46 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
bmwautobodypartstore.com

bmwautobodypartstore.com has only the PBR Deluxe & PBR Metal Masters & PBR Ultimate brake pad set at this web page.

- As with others, they don't provide enough information on the PBR Deluxe to tell if it's equivalent to the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads ...
- And we already know the PBR MetalMasters are not at all equivalent to the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads
- Yet, we do know the PBR Metal Masters are the same as the PBR Ultimate brake pads - so why do they sell them at a whopping 10% different price?
- Not only do we have marketing hype adding 10% to the price of the brake pads (for no other gain); but we don't have our desired Axxis Deluxe Advanced listed ... so ...
- So, we have to now strike off the 16th member of our potential list, having found almost none which sell the desired brake pads.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bmwautobodya.gif
Views:	515
Size:	81.9 KB
ID:	231511  

Last edited by bluebee; 05-24-2010 at 11:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:59 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
So I called the 24-hour sales department for the prior post and the guy didn't know much about brakes at all.

After a looong while, he concluded that the PBR Deluxe were metallic brake pads, and that the ones I wanted were ceramic non-asbestos organic.

Therefore, we have conclusive proof that they don't carry the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads.

The telephone call took a long time (mostly because the guy didn't know anything about brake pads) but I'm coming to the conclusion that the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads aren't so easy to find on the net.

Next post will be the 17th supplier.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-25-2010, 12:12 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
catalog.brakewarehouse.com

Here's the related web page for the catalog.brakewarehouse.com for the 2002 BMW 525i front pads.

Surprisingly, in the "Nugeon" section, we finally find a supplier for the Axxis Deluxe Advanced front brake pads!

Out of the 17 suppliers we checked so far, only this one definitely sells the Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads!

But, the confusion factor is still there ... what on earth is Nugeon?

And, worse confusion yet, what happened to the NAO designation?

These pads are called "ceramic" but we know them to not be wholly ceramic, they're "ceramic non-asbestos organic" whereas the Axxis Ultimates are more properly called "ceramic".

The confusion reigns anew!


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	catalog_b.gif
Views:	513
Size:	168.0 KB
ID:	231514  

Last edited by bluebee; 05-25-2010 at 12:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-25-2010, 03:55 AM
Jase007 Jase007 is offline
Wrenchin' fool ...
Location: nova
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 762
Mein Auto: e39 528it
Blue:

I've used both PBR/Axxis: "Deluxe" and "MetalMaster" on the same car...they were definitely different pads. Metalmaster were marketed for a long time as "metallic" content, harsh-er on rotors and had a higher operating temp than the deluxe. I had both on the same car and can say that their "hype" was somewhat accurate. The deluxe produced less dust/bite than the metalmasers which in turn produced less dust/ initial bite than the oem jurid/textar.

Who is to say that PBR/Axxis didn't merge with Bendix (or others) over the years and that the resulting "group" didn't then decide to cash in on the good reputation / brand name recognition of the metalmasters to push whatever compound they wanted to?

Nugeon is a brake caliper remanufacturer ... Pelicanparts.com sells their remanufactured calipers for lots of BMWs. I have a set on the front of my touring right now. Apparent;y, from your reserach, they also sell pads.

If you think this researh is confusing ... wait until you have to (choose to) research "loaded" versus "unloaded" calipers (purchasing a remfg. caliper with or without pads) and try to determine what exact pads the caliper is loaded with. LOL.
__________________
Jason

2000 528iT Sport 5M (mfg. 5/1999) ~ 1990 325iX 5M
BMW CCA member #130075
JScottRacing
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-25-2010, 07:27 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase007 View Post
I've used both PBR/Axxis: "Deluxe" and "MetalMaster" on the same car...they were definitely different pads.
I don't doubt you. I'm just waaaay confused. Look at post #17 above where it distinctly implies Axxis Ultimates and PBR Ultimates and MetalMasters are the same pad!

Yet, I'm sure you're right. The point is it's almost impossible to get any reasonable headway here on making sense of brake friction materials. Sigh.

Later today I'll try to continue my search, which, after 16 duds, finally came up with an ad I can (almost) believe for the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads!

It really shouldn't be this miserable to make sense of Internet purchases!

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-25-2010, 08:39 AM
oembimmerparts oembimmerparts is offline
'Fest Sponsor
Location: San Antonio
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,526
Mein Auto: 2001 Z3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I don't doubt you. I'm just waaaay confused. Look at post #17 above where it distinctly implies Axxis Ultimates and PBR Ultimates and MetalMasters are the same pad!

Yet, I'm sure you're right. The point is it's almost impossible to get any reasonable headway here on making sense of brake friction materials. Sigh.

Later today I'll try to continue my search, which, after 16 duds, finally came up with an ad I can (almost) believe for the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads!

It really shouldn't be this miserable to make sense of Internet purchases!


Axxis and PBR are like Ford and Mercury they are the same sans the packaging. Also like ford-mercury the pbr ones are cheaper cost wise then the axxis.

So far the best we have found in a low dust but very close to oem feel are the textar fushion ceramics. I can only assume that since textar is a large supplier to bmw and others that keeping the "as close to oem feel" was a big thing for them.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-25-2010, 08:52 AM
540 M-Sport's Avatar
540 M-Sport 540 M-Sport is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,922
Mein Auto: 01' 540 M-Sport cdn, F355
Bluebee have you called Dave Z at Zechausen yet? I recommend you do, he is very helpful.
__________________
Factory M-Sport package with factory installed M-tech bumpers, factory Bluetooth, factory M-Audio 10" dual voice coil subs, Homelink, M5 rear stabilizer bar, Bilstein B14 PSS coil overs, Stop Tech ss brake lines, Akebono Euro Ceramic brake pads, oem Brembo and Zimmerman rotors, Dinan Stage 1 software, Strong Strut front upper stress bar.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-25-2010, 09:49 AM
doru's Avatar
doru doru is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Calgary
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,457
Mein Auto: 2003 530iA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
I think that is exactly the point. You cannot get OEM performance without dust. And you cannot get a dustfree pad without sacrificing some level of "performance" (or feel). It is all about design tradeoffs in the materials selected. I am sure there are other tradeoffs (fade, durability, wear on rotors, etc.) but braking feel and dust are probably the two most important to most street drivers.
+1,000,000
2 weeks with the Akebono Euro now. Slightly less OEM bite (initial brake pedal pressure slightly higher). However, if you need to brake hard, they do so quite well. Also, if driving in the city, once you brake a couple of times, and the brakes warm up, they do have almost an OEM feel.
No dust.
Also, no confusion with the Akebono Euro vs. Axxis whichever.
__________________
Looking for a DIY? Parts? Check this out, it might be your ticket
TMS underdrive pullies - Stewart WP - PSS9 - Beisan Vanos seals - Zimmerman cross-drilled & Akebono Euro - Deka 649 MF - 55w HID headlights - 35w HID foglights - Hualigan double din - ACS (rep) alu pedals - Euro central storage console - Breyton Magic Racing staggered wheels - M5 bumper - M5 steering wheel - Tint
Stable: e39, e53, e46 & Tribby
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:19 AM
Jason5driver's Avatar
Jason5driver Jason5driver is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Middle of a corn field
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,462
Mein Auto: E39 hamster w/ pin-wheel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase007 View Post
Blue:

I've used both PBR/Axxis: "Deluxe" and "MetalMaster" on the same car...they were definitely different pads. Metalmaster were marketed for a long time as "metallic" content, harsh-er on rotors and had a higher operating temp than the deluxe. I had both on the same car and can say that their "hype" was somewhat accurate. The deluxe produced less dust/bite than the metalmasers which in turn produced less dust/ initial bite than the oem jurid/textar.

Who is to say that PBR/Axxis didn't merge with Bendix (or others) over the years and that the resulting "group" didn't then decide to cash in on the good reputation / brand name recognition of the metalmasters to push whatever compound they wanted to?

Nugeon is a brake caliper remanufacturer ... Pelicanparts.com sells their remanufactured calipers for lots of BMWs. I have a set on the front of my touring right now. Apparent;y, from your reserach, they also sell pads.

If you think this researh is confusing ... wait until you have to (choose to) research "loaded" versus "unloaded" calipers (purchasing a remfg. caliper with or without pads) and try to determine what exact pads the caliper is loaded with. LOL.
+1.
Totally agree.
The Ulitmates, Metal Masters, and the Deluxes are different pads.
Again, talk to Turner and Dave Zeckhausen.
They can set you straight.
Also talk to Vincent at Bimmer Zone.
Good guy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by oembimmerparts View Post
Axxis and PBR are like Ford and Mercury they are the same sans the packaging. Also like ford-mercury the pbr ones are cheaper cost wise then the axxis.

So far the best we have found in a low dust but very close to oem feel are the textar fushion ceramics. I can only assume that since textar is a large supplier to bmw and others that keeping the "as close to oem feel" was a big thing for them.
+1.
The Textar Fusions sound like the real deal IMO.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-25-2010, 01:20 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
Bluebee have you called Dave Z at Zechausen yet? I recommend you do, he is very helpful.
Yes. I had called very early this morning (California time). What they told me gave me a shock since NOBODY else told me that Axxis is essentially kaput in the United States!

This "might" explain why it's so hard to find prices & availability for the highly-recommended Axxis Deluxe Advanced front brake pads.

Is this NEW information?


I called Zeckhausen twice just to make sure they were telling me the same new-to-me story each time.

I wasn't surprised that they explained to me "advertised pad composition was meaningless"; but I was knocked out of my seat when they said nobody sells Axxis in the USA anymore!

Specifically, Zeckhausen says they no longer sell or stock any Axxis pads because Axxis is no longer selling in the United States and hasn't sold in the United States for months.

They weren't sure about the PBR brand though, and they said PBR is a DIFFERENT company! (Yet again, this is conflictingly confusing information!!!!!!)

Too bad (for me, and for them) though, as Axxis was their biggest seller.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-25-2010, 01:25 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
Also, no confusion with the Akebono Euro vs. Axxis whichever.


Well, given what I know now (that Axxis is kaput in the USA), we need to have a new list of recommended near-OEM less-dust front pad!

Zeckhausen, on the telephone, recommended the Centric Posi-Quiet instead (low dusting with a loss of initial bite, they say) or the StopTech Street (higher dusting with greater initial bite than OEM).

So, now this quest has morphed from:
Q: Why is it so hard to price Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads on the Internet?
A: They don't sell in the USA anymore!


To:

Q: What is the most-recommended low-dusting front brake pad for near-OEM performance?
A: Is this the current answer below???

- Akebono Euro (low dust, lower initial bite than Jurid fronts)
- Centric Posi-Quiet (low dust, lower initial bite than Jurid fronts)
- StopTech Street (medium dust, higher initial bite than Jurid fronts)
- ??? PBR ??? (Is PBR still sold in the USA? Is PBR the same as Axxis (some say yes, some say no)?

Last edited by bluebee; 05-25-2010 at 01:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-25-2010, 01:33 PM
Fudman's Avatar
Fudman Fudman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sudbury, MA
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,166
Mein Auto: '02 530i Sport auto
AXXIS DELUXE! Ooops, sorry, we've been down that road already!

I think if you go with the Akebono Euros, you will not be sorry. A bit pricier than the Axxis but every bit as good feel as the Axxis, just as clean (Soo much better than OEM!) and never a squeak. I have yet to read of anyone who has regretted buying the Euros. And that is always the best sign, satisfied customers!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-25-2010, 01:39 PM
540 M-Sport's Avatar
540 M-Sport 540 M-Sport is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,922
Mein Auto: 01' 540 M-Sport cdn, F355
+1, I think the Akebono Euro ceramic is the next logical choice.
__________________
Factory M-Sport package with factory installed M-tech bumpers, factory Bluetooth, factory M-Audio 10" dual voice coil subs, Homelink, M5 rear stabilizer bar, Bilstein B14 PSS coil overs, Stop Tech ss brake lines, Akebono Euro Ceramic brake pads, oem Brembo and Zimmerman rotors, Dinan Stage 1 software, Strong Strut front upper stress bar.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-25-2010, 01:45 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by oembimmerparts View Post
Axxis and PBR are like Ford and Mercury they are the same sans the packaging.
I don't doubt anything you say (as what do I know); but I must say half the knowledgeable people I talk to say that Axxis and PBR are the same (like you at oembimmerparts and the Turner Motorsports folks) ... while the other half say Axxis and PBR are totally different (e.g., the guys at Zeckhausen).

Which reputable answer should I trust?

I have absolutely no idea; but, since I'm now told that Axxis hasn't been sold in the USA for months, that only leaves PBR pads anyway (if I wish to take advantage of the highly-recommended low-dusting Axxis/PBR Deluxe Advanced front pads).

I think I'll order from you. On your web site, it looks like you sell the PBR Axxis Deluxe Plus front brake pad set.

Half the people (see references already posted) say the PBR Axxis Deluxe Plus is the equivalent of the newer-branded PBR Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads - while - the other half say the PBR Axxis Deluxe Plus pads are organic while the PBR Axxis Deluxe Advanced are "ceramic non-asbestos organic".

Can you confirm whether the PBR Axxis Deluxe Plus pads are the same or not as the PBR Axxis Deluxe Advanced people here seem to highly recommend?

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	oembimmerparts.gif
Views:	536
Size:	60.7 KB
ID:	231548  
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-25-2010, 01:51 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
+1, I think the Akebono Euro ceramic is the next logical choice.
I didn't see this when I posted back to the Oembimmerparts guys.

I'm going to go with them "if" the Axxis-PBR Deluxe Plus is "equivalent" to the often-recommended Axxis/PBR Deluxe Advanced front pads.

Depending on the answer, I may finally give up on trying anything Axxis or PBR (as it's just toooooooooo confusing to make an informed decision) ... and go with the next-most recommended Akebono Euros!

Time will tell ...
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-25-2010, 02:04 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
You left one vendor off your list: OEMBimmerparts.com. They carry PBR/Axxis and have the Deluxe Plus
In hind sight, I should have gone to oembimmerparts earlier. Depending on the answer to my latest questions, I'll go with them and give up on this quest for finding the top suppliers for Axxis Deluxe Advanced front brake pads.

However, it's still a good idea to list the top 3 (or five) brake-pad suppliers ... so I'll make a stab here (which others can correct).

TOP 5 Brake Pad Suppliers for the E39 (PLEASE CORRECT AS NEEDED!)
- OEMm Bimmer Parts (TX) 210-445-7090 http://www.oembimmerparts.com
- SpeedNet Motorsports (CA) 800-530-3515 http://www.speednetmotorsports.com/index.html
- Turner Motorsport (MA) 800-280-6966 http://www.turnermotorsport.com
- Zeckhausen (NJ) 800-222-8893 http://www.zeckhausen.com

- ??? (anyone else in the top 5) ???
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-26-2010, 04:23 AM
Fudman's Avatar
Fudman Fudman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sudbury, MA
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,166
Mein Auto: '02 530i Sport auto
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
However, it's still a good idea to list the top 3 (or five) brake-pad suppliers ... so I'll make a stab here (which others can correct).
I agree with what you are saying (listing brake vendors), however, when you say "top" brake pad vendor, you really need to describe your definition of "top" as it can mean different things to different folks and the "top" vendor depends on the buyer's priorities. Many vendors compete on price, which is fine for those that have the confidence to select and install their components and are sinply looking for the lowest cost. However, some vendors compete on technical expertise (e.g. Zeckhausen) to help the buyer select the proper component for their application (e.g. street or track) and/or carry a greater selection of components to choose from. For many prospective buyers, having a knowledgeable human voice to speak with is worth the additional cost, which typically is not that much.

An example of what I mean is EACTuning and thrust arms. They are the only one (to my knoweldge) that carries Lemforder (OEM) thrust arms with the solid rubber heavy duty bushings. You pay a premium for those thrust arms but you will likely not have to replace them (unless the balljoint fails). Many other vendors carry the standard OEM Lemforder thrust arms w/fluid filled bushings at a lower cost and some of those even carry lower cost alternative thrust arm brands. Thus, the "top" thrust arm vendor depends on what you are looking for or are willing to pay.

BTW: I think I speak for many on this forum that we greatly appreciate your efforts to consolidate information about e39s. Your postings are all bookmarked as they very informative, from acronyms to vendor lists to torque specs. Between you and cn90, I have all the info I ever need to keep my car running forever. Thanx!
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-26-2010, 08:00 AM
oembimmerparts oembimmerparts is offline
'Fest Sponsor
Location: San Antonio
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,526
Mein Auto: 2001 Z3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Half the people (see references already posted) say the PBR Axxis Deluxe Plus is the equivalent of the newer-branded PBR Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads - while - the other half say the PBR Axxis Deluxe Plus pads are organic while the PBR Axxis Deluxe Advanced are "ceramic non-asbestos organic".

Can you confirm whether the PBR Axxis Deluxe Plus pads are the same or not as the PBR Axxis Deluxe Advanced people here seem to highly recommend?


Yes they are the same pad. Awhile back they changed there lingo on the box from organic to "ceramic technology" in my belief that people see that and think its better or what have you.
Basically with pbr you have 3 choices
deluxe plus which are organic but now added lingo of ceramic technolgy
Metal Master XBG
Ceramic also called ULT

Go here http://www.pbrbrakes.com/
Click friction and then aftermarket pads for more info that may help

There are also MSD sheets on the site, Im not chemist so I would hate to state with fact what materials mean what etc. We post the spec cards that are given to us by pbr. what are on our site. They have added "ceramic materials" to the list of the deluxe advanced but I believe only to add more current appeal. Im not saying they do not have any ceramic material but they are not marketed as what we would call ceramic pads.
__________________

Last edited by oembimmerparts; 05-26-2010 at 08:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-26-2010, 08:38 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by oembimmerparts View Post
Yes they are the same pad. ...
Basically with pbr you have 3 choices ... http://www.pbrbrakes.com
Thanks for the answer. I'll just order a set of replacement pads from you guys and go from there.

I'm sorry but I'm really feeling depressed and don't think I can carry this thread any further to gain information....

The main reason is I couldn't make any real sense of the Axxis branding and price/availability ... their marketing and that of the various web sites I visited (see extensive information posted prior) was apparently designed to be misleading ... and so it was ... I'll cut my losses, and yours (in time & effort) and give up on trying to summarize the pricing and availability of the desired brake pads ...

I'll even give up on trying to organize a short list of top suppliers for each particular brake pad of the three or four top-recommended low-dusting replacements for the E39. Others will have to carry the banner forward, not me.

I don't have the energy anymore.

The Axxis/PBR/Bendix/Mintex/Repco/etc. Deluxe/Plus/Advanced/ULT/MetalMasters/etc. organic/metallic/ceramic/ceramic-enhanced/nao/etc. marketing is designed to make it (almost) impossible (without extensive effort) for people like me (who live and die by cold hard facts) to make an informed decision based on the merits of something as simple as the price and availability of this, one of the most recommended brake pad marquees. It just shouldn't be this hard to make an informed decision. Sigh. I just have to give up.

It's really emotionally draining that I can't get a handle on brake pad replacement. It's easy to make a decision - the trick is to make an informed decision! Those who say 'just go with x' or 'just buy brand y' don't think like I do ... they think muuuuuch simpler ... and they apparently only go skin (aka box marketing) deep. I like to dig down to the insides. The guts. The real deal.

I thrive on making informed decisions ... but when it comes to these particular brake pads, there's just no way anyone can come up with an informed consensus w/o a ton of work sorting out the half who say this versus the half who say that, all of whom should actually know the right answer ....

The fact that I can't get the same answer half the time means most people are (probably) spouting pure BS and they don't even know the real answer themselves (it seems to me).

When I dug deeper, the conflicting answers became so overwhelmingly confusing, that I can only conclude at this point that the replacement brake pad friction-material industry thrives on marketing deception (sometimes called FUD when it's negative). I'm sorry for rambling ... but I just don't have the mental strength to go on with this quest.

Sigh. ... I'm sooooo depressed ... I don't even want to look at this thread anymore ... sorry ... I'll just buy my pads, replace them, and move on ...

Last edited by bluebee; 05-26-2010 at 08:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-31-2010, 07:17 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,521
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
First impressions, so far, are that the PBR Deluxe Advanced front brake pads don't stop as "nicely" as do the Jurids.

Normally, I can't tell the difference between brake pads; but, I guess that's when there isn't all that much of a difference.

I replaced the front Jurid brake pads yesterday with PBR Deluxe Advanced pads and bedded them with the (as many as I could get) 60 to 5mph stops (I could only get 4 sequential stops at best, mostly 1, 2, or 3 stops, even at midnight ... on three different highways I tried in San Jose due to the traffic; but in the end, I did about 20 total bedding stops).

I do not like the feel of these PBR pads as compared to the Jurids.

Yes, it's all very subjective, but, the PBR Deluxe Advanced pads seem to bite way later and to kick in the ABS far earlier. I realize that's an oxymoron but that's my impression as I bedded them.

Don't like 'em at all. I'm sure I'll get used to them; but I really liked the Jurid's (except the dust).

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	replaced_jurid_with_pbr.jpg
Views:	9879
Size:	106.7 KB
ID:	232539  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms