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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #26  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:59 PM
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cablue cablue is offline
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Mein Auto: '10 X5 diesel
I just brought mine in after the warning. I originally had it with maybe 1500 mi, but was in very cold weather. It went away the next day. Did not come back on until 10,800 mi. Just brought it in. At first they were going to charge me $44 for a top-off, said it wasn't covered unless it was the scheduled service. Then they came back and said it would be covered. I was due for the full service (oil, etc.) Only then they said they could cover it. But I definitely would have questioned them if they were going to charge me. When the light comes on, that means we have to get it filled, so it should be covered. I also had a nail in my back tire. Could not be repaired. It was on the sidewall. They changed it out for $255, if anyone is curious about replacement costs for the RFT. Other than that, mine has been problem-free. I have never regretted getting the diesel. I'm getting consistently 23 mpg.
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  #27  
Old 04-29-2010, 11:47 AM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
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Update on my 09 X5 DEF experience...............I picked up my truck yesterday and before I paid anything asked the service advisor just how much DEF had been added. At first he said a half gallon and that the cost was $104. I told him I would not pay $104 for a half gallon of anything!! Then he relooked it up on his computer and said, Oh, it doesn't really say how much DEF was added." Then he just shrugged it off and said that the cost was $104. Being as I was enroute to another appointment and knowing in the back of my head that this was not something I would have to worry about bringing back to them for in the future, I paid the $104 and left saying, I hope I don't have to come back to see you anytime soon........and was out the door. Well on my way home, later that night, the warning again came on!! I have called the service advisor and told him of that and he said to bring it back in and he would have the technician take a look at it. I am going to give him a call back and this time insist on finding out how much DEF fluid was put in. I looked at my receipt and see that they charged me $43.54 for the DEF and charged me $57.50 for labor. I am mad!!! I am going to try the start and restart evolution and see if that clears the warning. Wish me luck, I'm going back to get some answers..................
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  #28  
Old 04-29-2010, 12:37 PM
fonger fonger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tharris48 View Post
I am mad!!! I am going to try the start and restart evolution and see if that clears the warning. Wish me luck, I'm going back to get some answers..................
They ought to compensate you for wasting your time.
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  #29  
Old 04-29-2010, 12:40 PM
Scot Scot is offline
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tharris48.........from your posts, you're around 11,000 miles ? Did they do the flush and fill of the DEF when you had the oil changed ? That should indeed be covered under the maintenance plan............ what mileage did you have the oil change done ? I'm assuming that you would have by now.
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  #30  
Old 04-29-2010, 07:13 PM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
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We have not had the oil changed yet. The oilservice indicator has not lit up yet. So this incident with the DEF has occured prior to any scheduled maintenance. I called the parts dept at the dealership and asked how much their DEF was. They told me $44 for 2.5 gal. My receipt from the dealership reflects this amount but my service advisor was not able to tell me how much DEF they had to replace. I called him back today and told him again that i want to know how much DEF they put in my vehicle. He had initially told me that they put .5 gal in and i told him that I was not going to pay over $100 for them to put .5 gal in. Then he looked back at his computer, assumedly looking at my vehicles records and then stated that he really couldn't tell how much they had refilled it with. This took place yesterday when I picked up my vehicle and today since my DEF warning has once again re-lit I am after them for more answers. I have tried the restart evolution that has worked for some others on the forum but so far it hasn't worked for me. In fact as soon as I insert the "key" it starts dinging at me to alert me of the warning. I will continue to try and see if this resets but also plan on getting answers from my service adviser. I feel like he is trying to play "nice guy" with me without really wanting to give me the information i am looking for. I'm usually pretty patient and easy to deal with, BUT I expect to be treated fairly and will go after who ever I have to to get my X5 right.....

Last edited by tharris48; 04-29-2010 at 07:20 PM.
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  #31  
Old 04-29-2010, 07:14 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tharris48 View Post
Update on my 09 X5 DEF experience.... I looked at my receipt and see that they charged me $43.54 for the DEF and charged me $57.50 for labor.......
Those charges are roughly the price of the small (approx. 1/2 gal) owner DIY approved, no-spill DEF container and 1 hour of a BMW tech's time to walk over to parts, gab with the parts guy for awhile, saunter back to your X5 and empty the container in the small tank -- IOW approx. 15min of real work to pour about a half gal of way-over-priced BMW brand DEF into your 35d

To put this in perspective, you (or your mechanically spouse) could have filled all 6.5 gals of DEF using Cummins brand DEF for under $50 parts + the trip to a Cummins shop and about an hour of your/his time.

Funf Dreisg

p.s. The 2.5 gal DEF container looks like a rectangular water jug, has a simple screw off lid (similar to a Cummins brand container) and would require a funnel and some patience to avoid spilling. OTOH the aprox. .5 gal owner DIY approved container looks like a big bowling pin and has a fancy nozzle/connector that is spill proof and overfill proof.

Last edited by Funf Dreisig; 04-29-2010 at 07:24 PM.
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  #32  
Old 04-29-2010, 07:28 PM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post
I don't have first hand experience. But from what I've read, the warning resets itself soon after the sensor realizes that the smaller "active" tank has enough DEF. Several people have reported having the sensor come on and go off by itself (e.g. ARD).

Note: the manual explains how an owner can top up the small tank DIY. So this is an 'approved' DIY maintenance item when you use the special BMW DEF filling bottle. OTOH I don't see how BMW could ever know whether you used Cummins or BMW DEF since it is a generic product.

Funf Dreisig
More great info! Thanks. The service advisor told me that a special tool would be needed for the indicator to be reset. I'm sensing a whole lot of HOT AIR from this service advisor and plan on moving up his chain of command if he doesn't call me back with the info I asked him for regarding how much DEF was actually used to refill the tanks....
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  #33  
Old 04-29-2010, 07:34 PM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post
Those charges are roughly the price of the small (approx. 1/2 gal) owner DIY approved, no-spill DEF container and 1 hour of a BMW tech's time to walk over to parts, gab with the parts guy for awhile, saunter back to your X5 and empty the container in the small tank -- IOW approx. 15min of real work to pour about a half gal of way-over-priced BMW brand DEF into your 35d

To put this in perspective, you (or your mechanically spouse) could have filled all 6.5 gals of DEF using Cummins brand DEF for under $50 parts + the trip to a Cummins shop and about an hour of your/his time.

Funf Dreisg

p.s. The 2.5 gal DEF container looks like a rectangular water jug, has a simple screw off lid (similar to a Cummins brand container) and would require a funnel and some patience to avoid spilling. OTOH the aprox. .5 gal owner DIY approved container looks like a big bowling pin and has a fancy nozzle/connector that is spill proof and overfill proof.
Definately my first mistake was to jump the gun and panic seeing the warning come up and took it in for evaluation....I should have just brought the truck home and logged on to this forum and read up on my options. Since it was already in the shop and the work (all 15 min of it probably) already done, we had written it off as $109 lesson and planned on doing our own DEF refills as needed, but then the warning indicator went off again on my way home later that same evening....I'm not real happy with my SA right now.....BTW, we currently own 3 diesel vehicles and my husband does all the maintenance on our other two, a 1995 Dodge truck with over 500K miles on her and a 2005 VW Jetta with over 200K miles on her. So something like refilling the DEF should be relatively easy I think :-) You have provided some great advice and I appreciate all of it! Thanks

Last edited by tharris48; 04-29-2010 at 07:38 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-29-2010, 09:37 PM
ard ard is offline
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I already made my position clear. I would not have paid if the original estimate said $0. Period, end of story.

Knowing the car takes 6.5 gallons, and if it is warning you it is empty, it is an impossibility that 2.5 gallons would 'refill' it and the system be OK. There are two possibilites: they didn't fully fill it or the warning is wrong.

(Also note that parts sells one jug that is 2.5 gallons. If they put it all in or put in 0.5 gallons you pay for the jug.)

Between being ignorant and lying, most SAs are useless.

GL

A
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  #35  
Old 04-30-2010, 08:52 PM
bmwfans bmwfans is offline
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Mein Auto: 2010 X5 35D,2009 MINI S
FYI,
I took my X5d to the dealer today to get a hitch and mud flaps put on that I purchased with the vehicle...I had them re visit the Urea issue....
They could find no warning, the urea levels are o.k... The dealer is puzzled as well. (At least the problem is documented if it comes up again)

Would I buy diesel again........Yes in a minute.I love this SUV, ......Very happy with performance and milage....about 25mpg highway 22 around town

And by the way this is my 8th BMW......... Bmwfans
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  #36  
Old 05-02-2010, 09:37 AM
NewGTGuy NewGTGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwfans View Post
I have a 2010 X5 35d with 1200 miles on it. The display came on warning that the count down on restarting had begun. 999 miles left before it will not restart. I reset to warning display using the i-drive to click O.K.
I took it to the dealer today and the Key had no warning on it, and the vehicle status display showed everything was O.K. They said to let them know if the warning came back on because they were sure the Exhaust Urea was full when the car was shipped new two weeks ago.
Any thoughts????????
Thanks
I got this warning while accelerating really hard around a corner at about 1100 miles. I haven't seen it again and I'm now at 3000. I did by some DEF which I keep in the car just in case, but I think it was an anomaly.
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  #37  
Old 05-09-2010, 07:25 PM
dtanner dtanner is offline
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I have had mine in to the dealer 3 times with the exhaust fluid reservoir issue. Had to have it towed the first time because I got the reservoir message, made an appt with the dealer and the car got an engine malfunction on the way to the dealer. Had to have the internal control unit replaced. Still had exhaust fluid issues twice after that. The message never went away on mine until the dealer worked on the car. The dealer had to work with BMW on getting the problem resolved.
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  #38  
Old 06-01-2010, 05:10 PM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
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Its been awhile since I have been on the forum but just a quick update on the X5 and DEF issue. The SA at Casey never did call me back with the information about how much DEF they installed in my vehicle so we took it down to the dealership where we bought it-Checkered Flag in VA Beach. The SA there said that they had not seen a warning like ours (Incorrect Diesel Exhaust Fluid added) before and they were going to look it over and get the engineers to take a look at the situation. Well, they had the vehicle for a week and said that the engineers came to the conclusion that it had NOTHING to do with the DEF fluid level at all and that it was a DEF sensor setting that had been set incorrectly at the factory. I went to BMWNA and within a week they had contacted both dealerships to get their input into our vehicle's DEF issue and Casey had a check sent to us immediately. They apologized for ever charging me in the first place. BTW, the SA did call me and left a message but never was available when I called to speak with him. I'm not chasing him down and i will never take our X5 back to Casey BMW. Lesson learned :-) Thanks again for all the input, it helped alot!! I am happy to say I am once again one happy X5 35D owner :-)
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  #39  
Old 06-03-2010, 06:47 AM
bmwfans bmwfans is offline
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twssas-

Just an update......I now have about 4000 miles on my X5d and have NOT had the warning go on again.
I wnt to Lake Tahoe and put 700 miles on and got an average of 25 MPG.....

I love it.

BMWFANS
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  #40  
Old 06-03-2010, 08:23 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Ill bet the mileage coming back was really good!
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  #41  
Old 06-03-2010, 08:31 AM
NewGTGuy NewGTGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwfans View Post
twssas-

Just an update......I now have about 4000 miles on my X5d and have NOT had the warning go on again.
I wnt to Lake Tahoe and put 700 miles on and got an average of 25 MPG.....

I love it.

BMWFANS
Nice. Over the weekend I drove round trip Seattle to Ocean Shores (300 miles) and got 29.4 MPG.

Gotta love it!
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  #42  
Old 06-04-2010, 08:05 AM
dtanner dtanner is offline
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My 2009 X5 has been in the shop 4 times for the exhaust fluid (reservoir low 3 times, exhaust fluid incorrect 1 time) - it's going in again today because again last night I got an error light saying there is an elevated amount of exhaust emissions. I have never been charged for any of this work. Also had problems twice with the engine control unit going out. Just don't trust the car anymore!!
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  #43  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:52 AM
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cablue cablue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Ill bet the mileage coming back was really good!
So true! Just came back from Tahoe and indicator showed 35! I couldn't believe my eyes.
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  #44  
Old 06-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Originally Posted by cablue View Post
So true! Just came back from Tahoe and indicator showed 35! I couldn't believe my eyes.
Gravity is great --- when you're going down hill

Funf Dreisig
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  #45  
Old 06-04-2010, 04:36 PM
emcman emcman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtanner View Post
My 2009 X5 has been in the shop 4 times for the exhaust fluid (reservoir low 3 times, exhaust fluid incorrect 1 time) - it's going in again today because again last night I got an error light saying there is an elevated amount of exhaust emissions. I have never been charged for any of this work. Also had problems twice with the engine control unit going out. Just don't trust the car anymore!!
You need to talk to BMW NA and push this issue. I had a 07 4.8 that was terrible. I ended up with a trade asist to a 10 35D. The SUV ended up being no cost to me. It is also perfect with zero flaws. For awhile I never wanted to drive another BMW now we are thinking of a second. In my case you do need to raise a stink and be the squeaking wheel.
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  #46  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:28 PM
epinaustin epinaustin is offline
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possible recall

I received this error message and brought my X5 in last week. The service advisor said the pump from the large reservoir to the smaller reservoir wasn't working. He said there is a recall and it is fairly new so that would explain why I hadn't received a recall notice.
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  #47  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:55 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epinaustin View Post
I received this error message and brought my X5 in last week. The service advisor said the pump from the large reservoir to the smaller reservoir wasn't working. He said there is a recall and it is fairly new so that would explain why I hadn't received a recall notice.
Hmmm... I just had my 2009 35d in for it's first Oil/DEF service last Friday. There were two 'recalls' fixed: the well know Turbo-charger Air Temp Sensor and Reprogramming. My SA never mentioned any DEF pump recall.

What year is your 35d?

Funf Dreisig
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  #48  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:06 PM
epinaustin epinaustin is offline
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2010. Maybe those were what he was talking about but that wasn't what he led me to believe. I am supposed to pick it up tomorrow so hopefully I can get more details.
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  #49  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:35 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epinaustin View Post
The service advisor said the pump from the large reservoir to the smaller reservoir wasn't working. He said there is a recall and it is fairly new so that would explain why I hadn't received a recall notice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post
There were two 'recalls' fixed: the well know Turbo-charger Air Temp Sensor and Reprogramming.
Generally there are three 'notices' that are often confused:

SIB or Service bulletins - these are BMW notes to the dealers about how to fix or diagnose certain common faults or issues. Generally these are of the "if the car does this, check that" and "if you see this, do that" variety...

Campaigns - A recall of sorts, but generally they are only done "at next service". You will NOT receive a notice since it is not mandatory, and does not affect vehicle safety or emissions.

Recall - A notice to consumers that there is a defect that impacts safety or emissions. You will be told to bring it in.

Many dealers just lump this all into one category when speaking to victims, er, I mean their clients..... the two recalls noted by Funf are in the 'Campaign' category.

A
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  #50  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:43 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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I recently posted this on Xoutpost. But since this topic has come up on this forum again...

"I picked up our 35d today after it's first warranty Oil/DEF service at 11,000 miles.

Despite the DEF angst in this and other threads, we have never had a single problem with DEF. No DEF warnings, no need to add DEF prior to a conditions based oil service, NOTHING.

If I didn't know so much about the reported DEF issues, I might have been curious about the service ticket entry...

"3 83-19-0-440-158 DIESEL EXHAUST FLUID WARRANTY"

which anyone who has read this thread now knows means that 3 - 2.5 gal containers of DEF were 'used' to fill the two DEF tanks which together hold about 6.5 gals. of DEF -- under Warranty.

People this is how it is supposed to work. Your 35d emails your dealer that it needs an Oil Service. And your dealer changes the Oil/Filter etc. and fills the DEF tanks with enough DEF to last till your next oil change, all under warranty. Meanwhile you enjoy driving your 35d and don't worry your pretty little head about the details of owning a diesel "

Note: three 2.5 gals containers (83-19-0-440-158) is 1 gallon more than needed to fill both tanks. Some 35d owners have posted that their paper work only listed two 2.5 gal containers. 5 gals is almost certainly not enough DEF to get a 35d to its next conditions based oil service covered by the warranty. So be sure to check your paper work for the DEF line item PRIOR to signing anything.

Funf Dreisig

Last edited by Funf Dreisig; 06-28-2010 at 03:45 PM.
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